Summer Brain Drain

[Boo Radley]

Most young people want their summer holiday. You sound detached.

I think they want it because they're accustom to wanting it. I learned in the service that people only think they want the easy life. But we're actually happier when were doing stuff important to us, working towards goals. Children aren't much different. They react to peer groups, but the happiest children are constantly engaged in some kind of learning. We have done them a disservice by helping promote the false notion that learning is work and that they need more time to play.

I'm not sure what you mean by detached.

 

[Van Basten]

I think they want it because they're accustom to wanting it. I learned in the service that people only think they want the easy life. But we're actually happier when were doing stuff important to us, working towards goals. Children aren't much different. They react to peer groups, but the happiest children are constantly engaged in some kind of learning. We have done them a disservice by helping promote the false notion that learning is work and that they need more time to play.

It's very simple. Over 2 months of no school is nirvana to ALMOST any kid, smart or dumb. I'll keep the almost in mind, since I know there are folks that enjoy school.

Also, again, they're kids. We're not promoting some false notion. Calling a lengthy summer break a disservice is hardly a fair statement.

@bolded: To be fair, "some kind of learning" is a really broad phrase, it doesn't necessarily mean in a classroom setting. Since kids learn as they go in, for example, Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts, athletic teams, summer camp. You don't have to be doing school work to be "learning", learning camping basics during your lengthy summer vacation is still learning. And with that said, maybe parents should push their kids to have more productive summers? But, if you have some study that kids constantly doing moderate academic work are happiest, please do link it.

I'm not sure what you mean by detached.

It's like you don't get normal kids very well. Not to be rude, just being honest.

 

[Boo Radley]

It's very simple. Over 2 months of no school is nirvana to ALMOST any kid, smart or dumb. I'll keep the almost in mind, since I know there are folks that enjoy school.

Also, again, they're kids. We're not promoting some false notion. Calling a lengthy summer break a disservice is hardly a fair statement.

@bolded: To be fair, "some kind of learning" is a really broad phrase, it doesn't necessarily mean in a classroom setting. Since kids learn as they go in, for example, Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts, athletic teams, summer camp. You don't have to be doing school work to be "learning", learning camping basics during your lengthy summer vacation is still learning. And with that said, maybe parents should push their kids to have more productive summers? But, if you have some study that kids constantly doing moderate academic work are happiest, please do link it.

It's like you don't get normal kids very well. Not to be rude, just being honest.

I actually do very well with kids. So, not detracted in that way at all.

What I'm saying is they really won't feel like they've missed anything. It's more a social construct that isn't universal. Even in this country, it's a new idea that you foster the liesure of children. It's not about what they will say if you ask them, it's how they will respond in a more active environment. Few families go on months long vacations, leading to more idle time than required.

 

[Van Basten]

I actually do very well with kids. So, not detracted in that way at all.

What I'm saying is they really won't feel like they've missed anything. It's more a social construct that isn't universal. Even in this country, it's a new idea that you foster the liesure of children. It's not about what they will say if you ask them, it's how they will respond in a more active environment. Few families go on months long vacations, leading to more idle time than required.

So you say.

What's wrong with plenty of idle time? They are kids, not company employees. I don't see the issue with kids being able to essentially laze around for several weeks. It would do us more good to not bother with how kids spend their vacation time and focus on the countless seemingly half-assed teachers running their classrooms throughout the academic term. :shrug:

So far, all I'm seeing is folks wanting to ruin the fun for the nation's children and teenagers.

 

[imagep]

Most young people want their summer holiday. You sound detached.

Most middle class people would like to be rich. Most ugly people would like to be beautiful. Most people would prefer not to pay taxes. Most people would prefer to to get wrinkles and grey hair. So what?

 

[Boo Radley]

So you say.

What's wrong with plenty of idle time? They are kids, not company employees. I don't see the issue with kids being able to essentially laze around for several weeks. It would do us more good to not bother with how kids spend their vacation time and focus on the countless seemingly half-assed teachers running their classrooms throughout the academic term. :shrug:

So far, all I'm seeing is folks wanting to ruin the fun for the nation's children and teenagers.

Idle time isn't really good for anyone. It's just human nature. That's all.

 

[justabubba]

I could see a staggered school year to prevent buildings from sitting idle but remember year round teachers will demand more money.

they could demand more money
but would be unlikely to receive it
... at least until there is another teacher shortage

year round schools make a lot of sense. mom is no longer home to look after the kids when they come home and during the summer; she is working, punching a clock, just like dad, and arrangements have to be made to look after the kids during summer. why spend huge sums of tax money for schools only to not use them for 1/4 of the year. but the best reason is because it improves the education of the average kid. the one who does not get to participate in enriching events during the summer, but whose brain gets parked in idle. THAT is the major cause of the academic divide between rich kids and poor kids. for nine months, they perform similarly. but the affluent kids remain in an enriching/learning environment for the other three, vacationing, attending camps, seeing new places and things, while the less affluent students do little but endure the summer. and over 12-13 years that advantage accumulates to the point that affluent kids exhibit a distinct academic advantage - only because of their family's affluence

 

[Van Basten]

Idle time isn't really good for anyone. It's just human nature. That's all.

In your opinion, sure. There's nothing inherently wrong with it.

This still doesn't make much of an argument for ruining kids' summer vacations.

Most middle class people would like to be rich. Most ugly people would like to be beautiful. Most people would prefer not to pay taxes. Most people would prefer to to get wrinkles and grey hair. So what?

Was this supposed to mean something?

 

[Boo Radley]

In your opinion, sure. There's nothing inherently wrong with it.

This still doesn't make much of an argument for ruining kids' summer vacations.
?

I don't think anything is ruined. Not at all. In fact, I think overall, most will find they are happier.

 

[Van Basten]

I don't think anything is ruined. Not at all. In fact, I think overall, most will find they are happier.

And you say you get normal kids.

 

[Your Star]

We do. We work for 9 months and get paid for 9 months.

Yeah, people don't seem to get that just because your getting a paycheck 12 months out of the year doesn't mean you are getting paid for 12 months. You get paid for the time you work, my mom gets paid the same way.

 

[Your Star]

Yes. The unions would ask for raises in salary since teachers would be working 2 more months.

Which is justifiable. More work equals more pay.

 

[Boo Radley]

And you say you get normal kids.

I do. And what I find is what they think and how they actual do is two very different things. I remember when I made my son do band for a few years. H talked about hating it, but when then allowed to drop it, he didn't. Why, because the reality was he loved it. Kids talk the talk they know their peers expect. But at the end of the day, their happier when they're not loafing around.

 

[Van Basten]

I do. And what I find is what they think and how they actual do is two very different things. I remember when I made my son do band for a few years. H talked about hating it, but when then allowed to drop it, he didn't. Why, because the reality was he loved it. Kids talk the talk they know their peers expect. But at the end of the day, their happier when they're not loafing around.

I was in band for three years, those were fun times. But, not everyone is your son, and that example hardly compares to cutting kids' summer vacation. This is a whole different situation than taking one class you're not sure you'll like. This changes the entire dynamic of schooling in its' own way.

 

[Boo Radley]

I was in band for three years, those were fun times. But, not everyone is your son, and that example hardly compares to cutting kids' summer vacation. This is a whole different situation than taking one class you're not sure you'll like. This changes the entire dynamic of schooling in its' own way.

It's similar in that his perception of what he wanted to do didn't match the reality. There will still be time off, but not in one long bunch. As much time or more, but not to the point of becoming an issue. Keep the mind running. We don't take months off. I won't hurt students to space it out.

 

[Dittohead not!]

It's very simple. Over 2 months of no school is nirvana to ALMOST any kid, smart or dumb. I'll keep the almost in mind, since I know there are folks that enjoy school.

Also, again, they're kids. We're not promoting some false notion. Calling a lengthy summer break a disservice is hardly a fair statement.

@bolded: To be fair, "some kind of learning" is a really broad phrase, it doesn't necessarily mean in a classroom setting. Since kids learn as they go in, for example, Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts, athletic teams, summer camp. You don't have to be doing school work to be "learning", learning camping basics during your lengthy summer vacation is still learning. And with that said, maybe parents should push their kids to have more productive summers? But, if you have some study that kids constantly doing moderate academic work are happiest, please do link it.

It's like you don't get normal kids very well. Not to be rude, just being honest.

Kids who are stimulated by "Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts, athletic teams, summer camp", along with family vacations, trips to here and there, are still learning during summer vacation.
Kids who spend every day zombied out watching cartoons or playing video games lose a great deal. It all depends on what they do during that down time.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Kids who are stimulated by "Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts, athletic teams, summer camp", along with family vacations, trips to here and there, are still learning during summer vacation.
Kids who spend every day zombied out watching cartoons or playing video games lose a great deal. It all depends on what they do during that down time.

Your right about this. Seems like before the advent of all the new "entertainment" electronics kids seemed better educated and more physically fit. Also better at direct communication...not so much since "texting" and "tweeting" etc... LOL

 

[Linc]

I'll have to give a big amen to this. And then there are those irresponsible parents taking their kids off meds all summer and wondering what's wrong when they start them back up the first two months of school and they're dysfunctional at best.

Kids who are stimulated by "Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts, athletic teams, summer camp", along with family vacations, trips to here and there, are still learning during summer vacation.
Kids who spend every day zombied out watching cartoons or playing video games lose a great deal. It all depends on what they do during that down time.

 

[Van Basten]

Kids who are stimulated by "Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts, athletic teams, summer camp", along with family vacations, trips to here and there, are still learning during summer vacation.

I literally said that already. So this is just redundant.

Hence why I brought up parents pushing their kids to have more productive summers.

Kids who spend every day zombied out watching cartoons or playing video games lose a great deal. It all depends on what they do during that down time.

They're kids, they should be able to waste away their days for a bit on a summer holiday.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I literally said that already. So this is just redundant.

Hence why I brought up parents pushing their kids to have more productive summers.


They're kids, they should be able to waste away their days for a bit on a summer holiday.

All of us need a kick back day now and again.
Just not every day.

 

[Van Basten]

All of us need a kick back day now and again.
Just not every day.

We're talking kids right now, not working adults.

 

[Boo Radley]

We're talking kids right now, not working adults.

Works much the same with kids.

 

[Van Basten]

Not really.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Not really.

Why not?
Adults need some down time. Kids need some down time. Too much down time is not good for either one.

 

[Van Basten]

Why not?
Adults need some down time. Kids need some down time. Too much down time is not good for either one.

Nothing like speaking of adults and kids as if they're the same.

I don't see a point in restricting the down time of children, individuals in a stage of their life that should be able to relax while learning about the world. They're going to be working their whole lives -- a daily grind that goes on for a while, though a while would be putting it lightly. Leave them alone and let them be kids, their summer is hardly too much down time. Instead of trying to blaming the summer holiday, which is all this thread is, let's focus on the classroom. Besides, one can just push for kids to do something productive with their summers and give reasonable summer work to be turned in for a grade the next school year. My school did the latter, normally just geared towards literature though, you could add in maths or science. Though, when I hit high school, it was only my AP or Honors classes that required such things, but that's easy to fix. I prefer quality over quantity.

Kids are going to work their whole lives, let them have a bulk of free time to be free and be kids. There's more to life than exam scores and trying to make schools look better, I'd hate for America to turn into South Korea when it comes to schooling. That'd be depressing.

Though we can all agree American pre-collegiate schooling needs help. But, a severely shorter summer vacation isn't going to do much but ruin kids' childhood.