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Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the economy?

Zalatix

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How can both be true?
 

ChezC3

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

How can both be true?

Because wealth is being created on speculation rather than production.
 

Zalatix

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Because wealth is being created on speculation rather than production.
This started happening only after Obama got in office? Because of Obama?
 

iacardsfan

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

While I would agree that there are some aspect of the American economy that have improved under Obama, as stated previously, what you speak of can and is currently being made from speculation. On top of that both sides of the isle continue to point out the small business as the backbone of the US economy, and they aren't pulling in the profits like corporations. Corporations are profiting, but are the American people? No.
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Because people with opposing political views can NEVER, and will NEVER admit that anything good could ever happen while the opposition is in charge.

In fact some will even be proactive in making things worse for the masses while the opposition is in charge.
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Corporations are profiting, but are the American people? No.

So you'd think the conservatives would be jumping for joy.

What with trickle down and all it's just a short matter of time before we all start reaping the rewards...
 

iacardsfan

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

So you'd think the conservatives would be jumping for joy.

What with trickle down and all it's just a short matter of time before we all start reaping the rewards...

Trickle down is the biggest joke of an economic theory I have ever heard. Small business growth was doubled, even with higher taxes, under Clinton compared to Bush.
 

Zalatix

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Trickle down is the biggest joke of an economic theory I have ever heard. Small business growth was doubled, even with higher taxes, under Clinton compared to Bush.
And the problem with Obama is that he is continuing the policies of Bush and not Clinton. He is part of the trickle-down problem.
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

The economy is generally improving. Housing is coming back; construction is getting back on track; we'll be back to normal levels of employment in about a year; manufacturing (especially autos) is rebounding; stock markets are booming; tax revenues are up.

That said, not everything is fantastic. Except for top earners, wages are flat; economic inequality is still high; manufacturing employment will stay low for a long time; higher education is very expensive; numbers of food stamp recipients are still high; some municipalities are still in deep holes, mostly due to pensions (or, in a few cases, unbalanced spending).

For a big swath of Americans, their home is a huge component of their net worth. This took a huge whack when the bottom fell out on housing, and people are going to feel it for far longer than it actually affects them.

And in the "no one's fault" department, the US population is aging; this means fewer people are in the workforce, and are receiving entitlements.

Last but not least, a basic component of human psychology is that we notice the negatives far more than the positives. I'd also say that we take our standards of living for granted, and regard even the slightest drop as though it were a mortal wound.

So things on the whole are getting better, but not a lot of people are feeling it yet, they have a lot of negatives to get over, and numerous long-term issues have not been resolved.
 

iacardsfan

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

And the problem with Obama is that he is continuing the policies of Bush and not Clinton. He is part of the trickle-down problem.

I wouldn't agree with that in full. Yes, I see a lot of Bush in Obama but there are clear differences as well. Obama acknowledged the need for higher taxes, especially on the highest earners, thus making almost irrelevant the trickle down claim with Obama you made. Corporate tax hasn't really changed over the past 30 years a ton, so I can see why you might make that argument, but from an income tax perspective, Obama isn't pretending that lowering taxes is going to fix the debt problems, and that's the main difference.
 

Zalatix

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

I wouldn't agree with that in full. Yes, I see a lot of Bush in Obama but there are clear differences as well. Obama acknowledged the need for higher taxes, especially on the highest earners, thus making almost irrelevant the trickle down claim with Obama you made. Corporate tax hasn't really changed over the past 30 years a ton, so I can see why you might make that argument, but from an income tax perspective, Obama isn't pretending that lowering taxes is going to fix the debt problems, and that's the main difference.
Good point about taxes. He's getting his ass kicked over that issue, though.

I still want to know from Conservatives how they think Obama is destroying the economy... seeing as they've been repeating this meme like forever now.
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Something the left isn't considering while popping their champagne corks over "records" in some industry profits and even the stock market is that these records are only "records" if you aren't using real inflation/adjusted dollars. Corporate profits should always be higher and higher and higher as (1) populations rise and (2) inflation reduces the dollar's buying power. The same goes for the stock market.

What we actually have is an economy that is recovering very slowly. The stock market is only in record territory because the Fed has assured investors that the "free money" from the Fed will continue flowing for the foreseeable future. Corporate profits are the result of having ratcheted down their operations to run lean and having an economy on a slightly upward trajectory.

We aren't out of the woods, yet, and aside from the fact that Bernanke, who was appointed by Bush was re-appointed by Obama, there isn't a lot that you can actually say Obama has done to improve the economy. In fact, there isn't anything I can think of that has made any significant difference. Obama has been, at best, a non-factor in this very anemic economic recovery we are experiencing.
 

Zalatix

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Something the left isn't considering while popping their champagne corks over "records" in some industry profits and even the stock market is that these records are only "records" if you aren't using real inflation/adjusted dollars. Corporate profits should always be higher and higher and higher as (1) populations rise and (2) inflation reduces the dollar's buying power. The same goes for the stock market.

What we actually have is an economy that is recovering very slowly. The stock market is only in record territory because the Fed has assured investors that the "free money" from the Fed will continue flowing for the foreseeable future. Corporate profits are the result of having ratcheted down their operations to run lean and having an economy on a slightly upward trajectory.

We aren't out of the woods, yet, and aside from the fact that Bernanke, who was appointed by Bush was re-appointed by Obama, there isn't a lot that you can actually say Obama has done to improve the economy. In fact, there isn't anything I can think of that has made any significant difference. Obama has been, at best, a non-factor in this very anemic economic recovery we are experiencing.
And how is this any more anemic than the recovery during the 6 years when Bush and the GOP controlled Congress and the White House?
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

And how is this any more anemic than the recovery during the 6 years when Bush and the GOP controlled Congress and the White House?

Why are you challenging an assertion that was never made?

p.s. Looks like the markets are taking a few steps backwards today. The futures are retreating even as I'm typing this.
 

Zalatix

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Why are you challenging an assertion that was never made?
Actually, Conservatives have said Obama's economic performance has been worse than Carter. This isn't all about what you alone have been saying in this thread.
 

Papa bull

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Actually, Conservatives have said Obama's economic performance has been worse than Carter. This isn't all about what you alone have been saying in this thread.

Worse than Carter, huh? I think that would be a really tough argument to make.
 

Fenton

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Good point about taxes. He's getting his ass
kicked over that issue, though.

I still want to know from Conservatives how they think Obama is destroying the economy... seeing as they've been repeating this meme like forever now.


The DOW is, especially now a poor indicator when it comes to our economic health.

It's pretty simple, Bernakes pumping is removing risk by lowering interest rates. If your'e a Obama supporter there is nothing to cheer about.

The instant Bernake stops pumping your'e going to see a massive sell off.

Bernake JUST said the economy would. TANK if he stopped QE.

Thats the House of cards Obama's built. A economy that has to be propped up with printing is a economy on life support.
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

The DOW is, especially now a poor indicator when it comes to our economic health.

It's pretty simple, Bernakes pumping is removing risk by lowering interest rates. If your'e a Obama supporter there is nothing to cheer about.

The instant Bernake stops pumping your'e going to see a massive sell off.

Bernake JUST said the economy would. TANK if he stopped QE.

Thats the House of cards Obama's built. A economy that has to be propped up with printing is a economy on life support.

The DOW isn't actually "the economy". The equity markets are equated to "the economy" all the time but they're not. They're just investor markets and are only one economic indicator and the DOW is just an index (indicator) of the market... The DOW is actually just an indicator of an indicator. And right now it is being manipulated by the Fed. When the Fed stops propping it up, there is no doubt by anyone that it's going to retreat. All bets right now are based on WHEN the fed will stop it's money-printing machines.
 

Fenton

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Good point about taxes. He's getting his ass
kicked over that issue, though.

I still want to know from Conservatives how they think Obama is destroying the economy... seeing as they've been repeating this meme like forever now.

There is NO recovery, there is only a lie, Obama's largest lie yet.

You can't reference the DOW when it's Bernake's perpetual QE that's inflating it. You can't use that as a viable referrence when just a hint of stopping QE causes a sell off.

Hell, Bernake JUST said the economy would tank if he stopped his pumping.
Thats Obama's economy, a house of cards propped up with printng.


Thats indicative of a economy on life support nearly 5 years after his election.

A jobless recovery is NOT a recovery and Obama's borrowing and Bernakes printing have only exacervated the problem.

What are we going to learn from all of this, I hope is that there is a price to be paid for appealing to the lowest common denominator.
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

There is NO recovery, there is only a lie, Obama's largest lie yet.

You can't reference the DOW when it's Bernake's perpetual QE that's inflating it. You can't use that as a viable referrence when just a hint of stopping QE causes a sell off.

Hell, Bernake JUST said the economy would tank if he stopped his pumping.
Thats Obama's economy, a house of cards propped up with printng.


Thats indicative of a economy on life support nearly 5 years after his election.

A jobless recovery is NOT a recovery and Obama's borrowing and Bernakes printing have only exacervated the problem.

What are we going to learn from all of this, I hope is that there is a price to be paid for appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Greetings, Fenton. :2wave:

Excellent post! :thumbs: Too bad for us that it appears to be true, though! :thumbdown:
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Because wealth is being created on speculation rather than production.

It's being created on both. However, there's been a paradigm shift in priorities, at the Federal level, since about 1999. So policies have focused on income from Capital and not income from Labor, despite Labor-income still being 2/3rds of our nation's income. In short, we're bending over backward to make the lesser portion of our income more prosperous, benefitting the few ... who by the way have vast financial resources with which to influence policy.

However, collectively, citizens are a more awesome force in influencing policy. If cuts to SS or changes in Internet freedom are discussed, the citizen blowback is immediate and stentorian, sending the Pols running for cover faster than cops responding to a holdup at Dunkin Donuts, despite the private/moneyed interests lobbying for the changes.

Ergo, at any time, the average American, if we're united, can demand and get sweeping changes. But we're not paying attention and merely bickering: Obama is a socialist; Bush is an imbecile. And thus we give in to stupid diversions, allowing moneyed interests to influence policy nearly unabated.
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

How can both be true?

Look no further than the federal reserve injecting 85 billion a month into toxic mortgage paper and government bonds due to deficit spending. Same thing is allowing "banks" to leverage via derivatives at levels higher than was present during the 09 meltdown.
 

Visbek

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

Something the left isn't considering while popping their champagne corks over "records" in some industry profits and even the stock market is that these records are only "records" if you aren't using real inflation/adjusted dollars.
Nope. Even adjusted for inflation, corporate profits are up.

Or, you can look at corporate profit margins (they have gone up a bit since 2010):

120306-Chart-1.gif



Or you can look at corporate profits as a percentage of GDP:

Corporate+Profits.png


Now, one thing that isn't accounted for, as you can see, is the big dip in profits in ~2008 or so.


Corporate profits should always be higher and higher and higher as (1) populations rise and (2) inflation reduces the dollar's buying power.
Yes... which is why we look at inflation-adjusted dollars, profit margins, and compare margins to GDP. :D


What we actually have is an economy that is recovering very slowly. The stock market is only in record territory because the Fed has assured investors that the "free money" from the Fed will continue flowing for the foreseeable future.
Yes, the economy is recovering slowly. No, the markets are not only in record territory because of Fed intervention. It's also because of confidence in the US economy by investors, and big corporate profits.
 

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Re: Stocks & corporate profits are at a record high, but Obama is destroying the econ

How can both be true?

Simple....

Obama is nothing but a Muslim kenyan, Hawaiian, Communist, Socialist, that hates American and Capitalism and he is trying to destroy the economy, by making sure the banks and wall Street criminals get everything at the same time he is trying to over regulate the economy to death. And he is trying to destroy the healthcare with the government take over of healthcare by giving 40+ million customers to privately owned health insurance and health industry.

Oh yeah... He is also is collusion with Opec to drive the price of Gas high bailing out auto industry while shoving the electric cars and solar power down our throat.

Hope that makes it clear

So no more stupid questions as to why Obama is Evil.

Diving Mullah
 
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