States skeptical of Biden's Covid-19 vaccine plan as they await the missing details

[iguanaman]

Proportionally? Is it harder for 40 people to lift 100 bricks or 7 people to lift 40? Literally nurses in California could walk down the street and stick more people in the arm than they have managed to inoculate in hospitals and nursing homes. There are probably more eligible people in the hospital parking lots in LA county than there are in 100 square miles around any ND population center. What is taking California so long? New York seems to be having similar trouble...

Is N. Dakota losing someone every 8 minutes to covid? There are no nurses available in California they are too busy trying to save lives. Biden will send in his people to handle the vaccinations like any decent President would have done in this situation. We are counting the hours for Mr. One and done to DISAPPEAR. It's like a miracle.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Pretty much. If Biden just continues the policies and actions of the Trump administration, he's going to be a pretty big disappointment to much of the country.

That won’t be the case if the MSM does not make it so - they praise Cuomo despite his total failure to make rational decisions. Much of the current mess is being caused at the state and/or locial government level. That is evident since only about 1/3 of the (27M?) vaccine doses already distributed to the states have ended up in people’s arms.

To Biden’s credit, he seems to be aware of that and is trying to come up with a way to create federal vaccine ‘super centers’ to actually give shots to people (without playing by ridiculous state/local ‘priority’ rules).

 

[Metric Mouse]

Is N. Dakota losing someone every 8 minutes to covid? There are no nurses available in California they are too busy trying to save lives. Biden will send in his people to handle the vaccinations like any decent President would have done in this situation. We are counting the hours for Mr. One and done to DISAPPEAR. It's like a miracle.

Biden is hoping to only keep vaccinating at the same rate as is happening now; he's going to have more people doing the same number of vaccinations? Doesn't seem likely.

I'm glad he has all these people just waiting around. Wonder what they're doing now as people are dying by the freezer truck full?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

????? From your charts, it looks like what you called the "It's all going to be gone in a couple of weeks"
strategy worked pretty well

If that is what you got out of looking at the two graphs, then I suggest that an immediate visit to a vision improvement specialist is required.

Possibly you are not aware of these facts -

1. Back at the beginning of May 2020, the total US deaths were around 65,000 and today they are around 405,000. That doesn't look like much has "gone away" (other than about 340,000 Americans).

​

2. Back at the beginning of May 2020, the average daily death rate (in the US) from COVID-19 was around 1,750 - today it is around 3,400. That doesn't look like much has "gone away" except for an additional 1,650 Americans per day.

​

3. Back at the beginning of March 2020, the cumulative deaths from America from COVID-19 was around 0/million - today it is around 1,200/million. That doesn't look like much of a decrease to me.

(More charts and graphs at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19)​

​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Were/are you in the military? What are more details on the military saying?

Yes I was, no I am not. The military has this silly rule that people over 75 aren't allowed to be on active duty.

The "details" are simply that it is an indication that only incredibly stupid/naive/ignorant/uninformed/gullible people would believe such a thing.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Hmm. I wonder what the population of N. Dakota is compared to California? California has given out more than 1 million shots while N. Dakota has given 46,000. Which is harder to do I wonder?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html

Well let's see now. California has a population of 39,512,223 and North Dakota has a population of 762,062. That means that California has given 25,308 shots per million while North Dakota has given 60,362 shots per million. Of course that means absolutely nothing since it takes the same effort to deliver one shot in California as it takes to deliver one shot in North Dakota, and what that means is that it is "more difficult to deliver" 1,000,000 shots than it is to deliver 46,000 shots

(More charts and graphs at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19)​

PS - Thank you for giving me an opportunity to enhance the education that you received in your state paid for (read as "socialist") American primary, middle, and high schools.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Is N. Dakota losing someone every 8 minutes to covid? There are no nurses available in California they are too busy trying to save lives. Biden will send in his people to handle the vaccinations like any decent President would have done in this situation. We are counting the hours for Mr. One and done to DISAPPEAR. It's like a miracle.
[GRAPHIC DELETED BY RESPONDER]

That editorial cartoon flashed me to

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PS - A good source for editorial cartoons that span the whole spectrum from "Trump worship" to "Trump loathing" is the American Association of Editorial Cartoonists website.

 

[dixon01767]

If that is what you got out of looking at the two graphs, then I suggest that an immediate visit to a vision improvement specialist is required.

No ,just the part that directly refutes your assertion so beautifully.

 

[Noodlegawd]

There are no nurses available in California they are too busy trying to save lives.

That's nonsense. Most nurses don't work in hospitals, and one need not be a nurse to learn to give shots.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

No ,just the part that directly refutes your assertion so beautifully.

The assertion was

That being said, increasing the daily rate by 25% is a much more "reachable" goal than increasing it by 150%. The "optics" of missing 1,000,000 per day by 100,000 (only reaching 90% of the goal) are a whole lot worse than the "optics" of missing 2,000,000 by 1,100,000 (missing the goal by 55%) and the "optics" of exceeding the goal by 500,000 (surpassed the goal by 50%) are one hell of a lot better than missing the goal by 500,000 (missed the goal by 25%).

Since actually surpassing the "goal" will promote confidence amongst the American people, using a "realistic number" (read as "a number that sounds like it's a really large one but which we're pretty damn sure we are going to beat") as a goal is VERY good strategy. It beats the heck out of "It's all going to be gone in a couple of weeks.".​

Now exactly how did the graphs showing daily doses of vaccine administered "refute" that?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

That's nonsense. Most nurses don't work in hospitals, and one need not be a nurse to learn to give shots.

It might be true (with respect to California) that

"Most nurses don't work in hospitals."​

- heck MOST nurses don't even work as nurses.

It is also true that

"One need not be a nurse to learn to give shots.".​

It is ALSO true that (in the United States of America)

"If one isn't in a category that is legally permitted to carry out a medical procedure and does carry out that medical procedure then one is going to get one's butt sued off if even the slightest thing goes wrong with that medical procedure (AND is going to lose [AND is going to be slammed with a damage award that is likely to be a multiple of the total amount that one could earn in an entire lifetime]) AND even if one IS in a category that is legally permitted to carry out a medical procedure then one is going to get one's butt sued off if even the slightest thing goes wrong with that medical procedure (AND is going to lose [AND is going to be slammed with a damage award that is likely to be a multiple of the total amount that one could earn in an entire lifetime {if one isn't carrying sufficient malpractice insurance}]).".​

 

[Noodlegawd]

It might be true (with respect to California) that

​

"Most nurses don't work in hospitals."​

- heck MOST nurses don't even work as nurses.

It is also true that

​

"One need not be a nurse to learn to give shots.".​

It is ALSO true that (in the United States of America)

​

"If one isn't in a category that is legally permitted to carry out a medical procedure and does carry out that medical procedure then one is going to get one's butt sued off if even the slightest thing goes wrong with that medical procedure (AND is going to lose [AND is going to be slammed with a damage award that is likely to be a multiple of the total amount that one could earn in an entire lifetime]) AND even if one IS in a category that is legally permitted to carry out a medical procedure then one is going to get one's butt sued off if even the slightest thing goes wrong with that medical procedure (AND is going to lose [AND is going to be slammed with a damage award that is likely to be a multiple of the total amount that one could earn in an entire lifetime {if one isn't carrying sufficient malpractice insurance}]).".​

The categories of who is "legally permitted" to give shots can be changed by passing new laws, or possibly through emergency executive actions by Governors. But I doubt that's even necessary. If just 1% of the licensed nurses in this country were dedicated to vaccinating people, and could give 50-ish shots/day, we could be vaccinating nearly 2 million every day based on that alone.

 

[dixon01767]

To Biden’s credit, he seems to be aware of that and is trying to come up with a way to create federal vaccine ‘super centers’ to actually give shots to people (without playing by ridiculous state/local ‘priority’ rules).

Nothing wrong with priorities for the elderly or healthcare workers and first responders and the priorities aren't slowing the vaccine process. When were are out of the unvaccinated in those groups AND we still have vaccines to give, THEN the priorities might slow the vaccination process.
And I don't deny that some ridiculous state/local ‘priority’ rules have delayed the process. Probably because they include prohibitions of vaccination of others.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The categories of who is "legally permitted" to give shots can be changed by passing new laws, or possibly through emergency executive actions by Governors. But I doubt that's even necessary. If just 1% of the licensed nurses in this country were dedicated to vaccinating people, and could give 50-ish shots/day, we could be vaccinating nearly 2 million every day based on that alone.

I'm not disagreeing with the possibility of the US achieving a vaccination rate of 2,000,000 per day (or even higher).

What I AM saying is that, under the current legal situation in the United States of America, you aren't likely to get "retired or non-nursing employed nurses" to voluntarily risk their entire financial future to help that along AND you aren't likely to get any other person to do it either.

BTW, there are approximately 3,800,000 licensed nurses in the US. Of those around 84% are already engaged in nursing. That leaves 608,000 "immediately available". Obviously you can't take 100% of the nurses out of their existing nursing duties (and having had some experience with hospital staffing levels) about the most that you could remove from their existing nursing roles would be 10% so that would add another 319,200 for a total of around 927,200. At 50 shots/day that would work out to 46,360,000 shots per day. At that rate, the entire US population could theoretically be vaccinated in around 14 days. If you allow two weeks for the necessary forced roundup of nurses and mandatory relocation to duty stations as well as the required coerced lining up of the American population, you could conceivably have 100% of the American population force vaccinated by the end of February 2021. [PLEASE NOTE - The foregoing is completely impractical.]

 

[Noodlegawd]

If you allow two weeks for the necessary forced roundup of nurses and mandatory relocation to duty stations as well as the required coerced lining up of the American population, you could conceivably have 100% of the American population force vaccinated by the end of February 2021. [PLEASE NOTE - The foregoing is completely impractical.]

That's a silly and totally unnecessary comment. Even if we limit ourselves to those 3.8 million licensed RNs (there are others), if only 10% of them worked an extra day each week to give vaccines, that would also give you another 2.7 million shots per day. Nobody would have to be forced to do anything. We can pay them well.

And nothing was stopping each state from passing legislation allowing for the training and indemnification of non-nurses to perform injections. I bet there are plenty of out-of-work bartenders and hairstylists who would have jumped at the chance.

 

[iguanaman]

That's nonsense. Most nurses don't work in hospitals, and one need not be a nurse to learn to give shots.

They do need to be paid though. Would you like to volunteer to pay their salaries?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nothing wrong with priorities for the elderly or healthcare workers and first responders and the priorities aren't slowing the vaccine process. When were are out of the unvaccinated in those groups AND we still have vaccines to give, THEN the priorities might slow the vaccination process.
And I don't deny that some ridiculous state/local ‘priority’ rules have delayed the process. Probably because they include prohibitions of vaccination of others.

Establishing priorities, by definition, excludes vaccinating those of lower priority (first). Otherwise it’s simply first come first served. BTW, the elderly (65 and up not in care homes) were not initially a priority over public transit workers. It’s quite natural for government employees to favor their fellow government employees but to call that ‘based on the science’ is BS.

 

[dixon01767]

Establishing priorities, by definition, excludes vaccinating those of lower priority (first).

Nope. Could for instance prioritize by allocating 80% of all available vaccines to the priority groups with 20% for any others.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nope. Could for instance prioritize by allocating 80% of all available vaccines to the priority groups with 20% for any others.

Yep, but that might be hard to accomplish since once the 80% have been used you are turning away priority applicants or once the 20% have been used you could be stuck waiting for only more applicants from the priority group(s).

 

[dixon01767]

Now exactly how did the graphs showing daily doses of vaccine administered "refute" that?

They show we should be above 100 million in the first 100 days using the current "It's all going to be gone in a couple of weeks." plan. Of course. No worries though, no one will stop you for praising the amazing achievements of President Joe Biden when we do hit 100 million.

Close to a million doses -- over 951,000, to be more exact -- made their way into the arms of Americans in the past 24 hours, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Wednesday.

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www.usnews.com

Couple more days we will likely be exceeding a million a day. Probably where Biden came up with his 100 million in 100 days figure. Saw that we were approaching a million doses a day under the Trump administration and thought surely he could do as well. And every one fawns over his bold goals.

 

[Noodlegawd]

They do need to be paid though. Would you like to volunteer to pay their salaries?

They'll need to be paid regardless of whether it's done in 2 months or 2 years. I'll be happy to pay for mine.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

That's a silly and totally unnecessary comment. Even if we limit ourselves to those 3.8 million licensed RNs (there are others), if only 10% of them worked an extra day each week to give vaccines,...

And you are going to get them to do that? How?

... that would also give you another 2.7 million shots per day.

Indeed, if you could fulfill the impossible condition it would.

Nobody would have to be forced to do anything.

And if they didn't "volunteer" you'd - what?

We can pay them well.

With money from what legally allotted fund?

And nothing was stopping each state from passing legislation allowing for the training and indemnification of non-nurses to perform injections.

Indeed there is nothing to stop the individual states from doing that - except for a lack of legislative will (and a strong desire to ensure that "Their Guys" don't get any credit and therefore "Their Guys" don't get a boost to their election or re-election chances).

I bet there are plenty of out-of-work bartenders and hairstylists who would have jumped at the chance.

I'm sure that there are and they are probably quite capable of doing the task. However any politician who votes for such legislation would be pilloried by "The Other Guys" for "putting the health and safety of the American people into the hands of totally unqualified people".

This is what is known as "The American Political Process".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Yep, but that might be hard to accomplish since once the 80% have been used you are turning away priority applicants or once the 20% have been used you could be stuck waiting for only more applicants from the priority group(s).

And, of course, since SOME people who are at minimal risk are getting vaccinated, a portion of the remainder will riot the minute that they are told "Sorry, none for you. We just gave the last dose to that _[fill in the blank]_ over there.".

 

[Noodlegawd]

And you are going to get them to do that? How?

Pay them. Well.

With money from what legally allotted fund?

Charge people to get the vaccine. Easy as pie.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

They show we should be above 100 million in the first 100 days using the current "It's all going to be gone in a couple of weeks." plan.

I see, so the graphs that showed that America is NOT meeting a 1,000,000 per day target and an analysis that a target of 1,000,000 per day disproves that a target that can be met is politically more advisable than one that cannot be met. I see.

Of course. No worries though, no one will stop you for praising the amazing achievements of President Joe Biden when we do hit 100 million.

Did I "praise" Mr. Biden for anything other than setting a reachable goal so as to enhance the feeling of progress that the American people have? No, I did not.

Close to a million doses -- over 951,000, to be more exact -- made their way into the arms of Americans in the past 24 hours, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Wednesday.

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www.usnews.com

Would that be the same CDC whose data on infections and deaths people of your ilk condemn as being massive frauds?

However, it is good to see the number of vaccinations increasing.

Mind you, on a per capita basis, the US is still running second to a country that has one of those reviled, socialist, fascist, dictatorial, so-called "universal healthcare programs" (you know, the ones that are run by Death Panels)

​

Couple more days we will likely be exceeding a million a day. Probably where Biden came up with his 100 million in 100 days figure. Saw that we were approaching a million doses a day under the Trump administration and thought surely he could do as well. And every one fawns over his bold goals.

You do know that Mr. Trump could have announced that America would be vaccinating 1,000,000 people per day before the end of his term of office, don't you? Have you ever wondered why he didn't do that (and steal the thunder from Mr. Biden)? T\I suspect that the most likely reason is that Mr. Trump simply doesn't care since he and his whole family have already been vaccinated.

PS - If you will check, you will see that I have nowhere described Mr. Biden's 1,000,000 per day vaccination rate as a "bold goal". Quite frankly it isn't. On the other hand it is a masterful stroke of PR because it is a goal that is reachable and is also one that can be incrementally enlarged in further reachable steps so that the American people will believe that the US is, at last (after 11 months of not doing so) coming to grips with COVID-19 through the actions of a cautious, reliable, and believable leader.