Spanking: Is it still an effective method of discipline?

[Old 'N Chill]

Boomer here, so I'm talking about late '50s. I was basically a good kid who listened to my mother and was polite and well behaved around other people. There were a few times when I was young, that my mother gave me a short spanking, she didn't go nuts and it lasted around a minute as I remember. It ended when I agreed not to do whatever I was doing at the time, I really don't remember the details. My father never spanked me at all.

I think in my case it worked well, the few I got I deserved, and I was never injured, abused or verbally attacked. They were never in public. I loved my parents and they loved me.

I don't have children, but I would be against spanking these days, speaking and perhaps some other punishment may be enough. I remember babysitting for a woman who had four young children who were pretty wild. She told me to spank any one of them when they get out of hand. I never did, never had a desire to. I talked to them, they listened, calmed down and all was well. They loved it when I came over, and she was grateful too.

My mother never used a leash with any of us kids, we were in a stroller until we could walk well, then we held her, or each other's hands, crossing streets, etc. Good memories of my childhood, no regrets.

I didn't give a poll vote, none of the answers really fit.

 

[BirdinHand]

5 million years of evolution, to start with.

But in our age, the reason are the safety of the child and instilling respect for authority.

A 3 year old isn't an adult who can reason fully. (Though most are more mature than the average leftist.) Lessons taught at an early age are often most effective with a swat on the behind.

Numerous studies - too many to count - show that early development is complete at around age 6. After that, spanking is no longer effective in training children to be civilized adults. But during the formative period, it is a critical tool in forming disciplined and socially adjusted children.

So…you can’t present one single example of what requires hitting a child?

 

[Old 'N Chill]

I just don't get it. How is it that some adults CAN NOT parent without physical action? AND then have the need to justify their actions?

Some sickos get their rocks off beating their kids. Those children are victims of abuse and usually react in kind when they have kids. Circle of aggressive insanity, IMO.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

So…you can’t present one single example of what requires hitting a child?

It's just a few individuals are were SO insistent on supporting spanking. Among them there was one who went off on a tirade about kids raised by leftists suggesting those kids turn out wrong for not being spanked.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that when someone posts comments supporting spanking but also goes off on some partisan rant that there is something behind that.
Either they themselves got spanked - or worse - and passed on that form of discipline to their offspring, or could it be, that in some cases they are in denial because their kids (if they had any) aren't tight with them.

My vote was for NOT outlawing spanking, but also greater education and understanding when spanking is appropriate and when it is not. I spanked my son once and vowed never to do it again. He has turned into a kind considerate and successful adult.

There ARE ways that are actually MORE effective than spanking. Spanking only teaches fear. Doesn't address the behavior that lead to the spanking. And if a kid is young enough, they aren't mature enough to make the connection anyways.

The point I am making, people can disagree on whether spanking is a suitable tactic to correct unwanted behavior, but the semantics being used on this thread by some talk about being "trained" and "disciplined." In other ways, it's THEIR way or the highway and that leaves no room for the personal growth or the independence of their kids.

 

[Hatuey]

I notice that those who engage in Antisemitism also tend to defame those who are smarter and better adjusted than they.

What you notice is irrelevant when you can't outsmart a child and must resort to violence.

Nobody here is impressed by conservative strong men who have to hurt little kids.

 

[noonereal]

Expecting a leftist on DP to discuss in an adult fashion is uneducated? Because leftists tend to be ill-behaved children their entire lives?



LOL, no.


The left does what that left does. Appeal to emotion and ad hom.

Claiming a parent slapping the hand of a two-year old reaching for a hot stove is not only dishonest, but flat out stupid.

A good and logical way of describing this is here;

{Without discipline, children don’t know where the boundaries are. They aren’t learning how to regulate their own behavior. So, they act out—whether it’s in a shopping center or in the classroom—and no one steps in to set things straight.
The issue isn’t just about momentary bad behavior; it’s about the long-term effects. Children who never experience discipline fail to develop self-discipline. And without self-discipline, life becomes a series of poor choices and unchecked impulses.}

The Decline of Discipline: How Parenting and Leadership are Shaping Society’s Future

It’s five in the morning again. I’ve just woken up, done some meditation, and my mind drifts back to something I witnessed yesterday.

www.linkedin.com

I am a life long Republican. Your posts are MAGA crazy land rinse and repeat.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So…you can’t present one single example of what requires hitting a child?

So you ignore the post and chatter meaningless bullshit.

2 year old grandson A was choking 3 year old grandaughter B - that required and got a spanking from father C. That is behavior that must be nipped in the bud. As mentioned dozens of time which you ignored, running in the street, touching a hot stove, failing to come when called.

Notice all of these involve safety. Spanking doesn't endanger a child. Not spanking does endanger both the child and those around the child.

 

[BirdinHand]

So you ignore the post and chatter meaningless bullshit.

2 year old grandson A was choking 3 year old grandaughter B - that required and got a spanking from father C.

What does spanking a child because they had their hands on another child teach?

That is behavior that must be nipped in the bud.

Agree, but I don’t see how you teach a child to keep their hands to themselves by laying hands on them.

As mentioned dozens of time which you ignored, running in the street, touching a hot stove, failing to come when called.

All the parent’s responsibility to prevent.

Notice all of these involve safety. Spanking doesn't endanger a child. Not spanking does endanger both the child and those around the child.

Spanking doesn’t teach a child anything other than their parent will hit them

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

What does spanking a child because they had their hands on another child teach?



Agree, but I don’t see how you teach a child to keep their hands to themselves by laying hands on them.

All the parent’s responsibility to prevent.

Spanking doesn’t teach a child anything other than their parent will hit them

• #304

He will just keep repeating what he has already said.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What does spanking a child because they had their hands on another child teach?



Agree, but I don’t see how you teach a child to keep their hands to themselves by laying hands on them.

All the parent’s responsibility to prevent.

Spanking doesn’t teach a child anything other than their parent will hit them

ROFL

I apologize for taking you seriously.

 

[BirdinHand]

ROFL

I apologize for taking you seriously.

Don’t worry - I’ve never taken your posts seriously. I find your posts repetitive, predictable, ignorant and typically displaying bigotry.

 

[Uncensored2008]

• #304

He will just keep repeating what he has already said.

And you'll keep ignoring it and pretending it wasn't presented.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Don’t worry - I’ve never taken your posts seriously. I find your posts repetitive, predictable, ignorant and typically displaying bigotry.

And he is proud of such posts.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Don’t worry - I’ve never taken your posts seriously. I find your posts repetitive, predictable, ignorant and typically displaying bigotry.

Obviously you don't take your own posts seriously either.

 

[JMR]

Dogs are especially tuned to respond to physical correction. Look at a pack for a minute or two and it will become obvious.

Just because we have made arbitrary decisions about how things should be done *now*, it doesn't mean we can overwrite nature.

Dogs "respond" to physical correction. They do not learn anything. They respond to positively reinforced commands. That is their nature.
Unfortunately we have a huge population of unwanted and unplaceable animals because some people think they can beat an animal into good behavior.

 

[OlNate]

Dogs "respond" to physical correction. They do not learn anything. They respond to positively reinforced commands. That is their nature.
Unfortunately we have a huge population of unwanted and unplaceable animals because some people think they can beat an animal into good behavior.

"Beating" wasn't what I was talking about.

But I'm not sure this is the space to discuss it, everyone is very firm in their mindset.

 

[JMR]

"Beating" wasn't what I was talking about.

But I'm not sure this is the space to discuss it, everyone is very firm in their mindset.

Sorry, did not intend to accuse you of beating an animal. I have no reason to think that you would...so I put it badly.

It is the case though, that many misguided dog owners believe they can train their (often dangerous) dogs by establishing an Alpha relationship through cruelty, creating a status symbol of sorts.

 

[OlNate]

Sorry, did not intend to accuse you of beating an animal. I have no reason to think that you would...so I put it badly.

It is the case though, that many misguided dog owners believe they can train their (often dangerous) dogs by establishing an Alpha relationship through cruelty, creating a status symbol of sorts.

You're good, it's been a rough day, I just didn't want to bite anyone's head off that didn't have it coming to them, so I bowed out... hehe

I have had big, aggressive breed dogs all my life. I'm a big guy, I like big dogs. I have found over the years that observing pack behavior and mimicking that has lead to far better dogs than what comes out of what is known today as obedience training.

The thing that people miss in observing pack behavior is that physical reinforcement is rarely cruel, and when it is, it generally signals a power shift within the pack or the absence of enough of the things that are required to sustain the pack - in other words, cruelty signifies the breakdown of the community.

Rather, normal state physical reinforcement establishes a necessary hierarchy, and there is a responsibility that comes with leadership to protect and look after the pack.

The value in establishing your dominance with a pet goes away if you act with cruelty. There is no upside to "beating" a dog, even if you are capable of deliberate cruelty to an animal, which i am not.

It also depends on the dog. I once had a dog that was half husky, half wolf. It responded best to this approach, for obvious reasons. My current dog is a mix of shepherd, collie, and lab. I have treated this one the easiest of all my dogs because it naturally and instantly accepted me as it's "leader". The pure bred shepherds landed somewhere in the middle. Like anything, you need to care enough to find the right approach for the individual.

I know what the studies say about physical reinforcement with dogs, and for most people, who tend to lean towards more subservient breeds (which they absolutely should do, unless they are willing to learn a lot), it's the right advice. But it goes against what I've learned and experienced with more aggressive breeds, who I've seen people try to apply the suggestions that go along with these studies, only to have it prove ineffective, leading to surrender of the dog.

The main reason I prefer my approach is because I like dogs for what dogs are. They are not meant to roll over and play dead, or sit with a biscuit on their nose while their owner says "not yet... not yet... not yet" to show off for their friends. To me that is far more cruel. I would rather meet them where they're at, and play by their rules, so that I can be confident that they'll listen to me without needing to change who they are, because who they naturally are is what delights me most about them.

 

[JMR]

sit with a biscuit on their nose while their owner says "not yet... not yet... not yet" to show off for their friends. To me that is far more cruel.

Totally agree. I hate when dogs are not respected, and that includes dressing them in cute little clothing. It's cringe.

I imagine your dogs do not have a wardrobe either.

 

[OlNate]

Totally agree. I hate when dogs are not respected, and that includes dressing them in cute little clothing. It's cringe.

I imagine your dogs do not have a wardrobe either.

Lol... no. The only "wardrobe" i would think is OK is something worn in their capacity as a working dog. Collar spikes for dogs that protect herds from predators, service dog vests, armor for police and military dogs etc., and then only when performing their actual duties. And, always with sadness, because it's usually shitty owners that create the need for these, muzzles for dogs that are unsafe.

 

[reinaert]

No one I know of has ever adequately shown the cause and effect connections between slapping a child where their poop comes out and improved regard for the rules, the authority of their parents, or good manners.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Let me state this: Though retired I know quite a few kids and their parents. Kids nowadays are labeled as lazy, entitled, spoiled, and snarky.
Not my experience. I could post dozens of studies that show that children that are spanked are actually more likely to grow up wanting to spank their kids than parents who use other methods to discipline.

Of all the parents I know, none use spanking, and their kids are doing fine. Mind you, that is just from a casual observation, not exactly a scientific study.

Still................... spanking is still perceived as a necessary form of discipline. And arguments for and against can become quite intense. Typically "Don't tell me how to discipline my child!"

So, straight up, is spanking effective? Or, as it is happening in some countries, should be outlawed? Even if not outlawed, should it still be used as a form of discipline in this day and age?

Hey Snowflake,

The only one that likes that is my wife. That says it all doesn't it?


Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Let me state this: Though retired I know quite a few kids and their parents. Kids nowadays are labeled as lazy, entitled, spoiled, and snarky.
Not my experience. I could post dozens of studies that show that children that are spanked are actually more likely to grow up wanting to spank their kids than parents who use other methods to discipline.

Of all the parents I know, none use spanking, and their kids are doing fine. Mind you, that is just from a casual observation, not exactly a scientific study.

Still................... spanking is still perceived as a necessary form of discipline. And arguments for and against can become quite intense. Typically "Don't tell me how to discipline my child!"

So, straight up, is spanking effective? Or, as it is happening in some countries, should be outlawed? Even if not outlawed, should it still be used as a form of discipline in this day and age?

Hi Snowflake,

Now a slightly more serious response though.

I do not recall any of the following. When I was young I had a habit of running away. My sister had to come back from school. My dad came back from work. The police were searching for me. The neighbours were searching for me. Not 1 time.... When finally, on the last occasion, my dad found me on a tricycle pushing buttons in an elevator of a high-rise building he spanked me. Or so the story goes anyways. And it worked, because I never did it again. Their concern was completely justified of course because they also found me on top of my tricycle on top of a wall between the pavement and the canal. How the hell a 3 year old manages to pull this of I don't know, but that's where the police found me one time. lol.

Many years later I found out when at a party my parents threw, there was a family friend who claimed it was ok to hit kids. I got angry and told him that it is never ok to hit kids, and proudly added that my mom and that had never once hit me. And than my mom started to cry and told the story I just mentioned above. The bottom line is that I do not have any recollection of ever being hit by my parents, and I am proud of that.

I now have a 6 year old boy. I have never once had to hit him, and I truly hope it never comes to that. I would be very very upset with myself.

The thing is, he is small. There is no way anyone can justify hurting a kid when other means are available. I used to seat him in the middle of the room on the floor in a Buddhist position. I would warn him several times. And than I took the timer and he had to sit in the middle of the room. He not sit? 5 more minutes. He hates it. He hates it soo much, that today, more than a year after the last time I done that, all I have to say is 'Three'. When I say that he knows I started counting down. It is at the moment I say three that he starts listening to me. And I mean instantly. And yet I never had to lay a finger on him. And he still loves me a lot. How can anyone argue with that.

Does it work? Yes! Are there better means? Hell yeah!. I notice that my son get's angry very quickly. But when I try to understand why he gets angry than I can explain it to him. The vast majority of the issues are because he thinks he understands, but he does not. So he is ready to learn more. I explain to him. He is not angry anymore and he now understands. So much soo, that the next time he will remind me if I do it wrong too. lol. I just can not justify hitting a kid. Me big. He small. Not sound fair. So my choices are, most of the time; Hit or explain. Ok, it's is not that black and white, but you're getting my drift by now. But the choice is easy. I struggle to make enough time available for him. But for this I always make time. And it pays back in a tremendous way. What 6 year old boy walks in your room just to shout; 'Daddy! I love you!'. I am 100% sure he would be less inclined to say that to me if I hit him...


Joey

 

[SMTA]

There's no reason for it.
Both my daughters turned out great

The threat of spankings carry more weight than the actual act.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

if your kid doesn’t listen to you about not running into the street, why do you keep putting them in situations where they can run into the street? You’re the adult, you control the environment and surroundings. And they literally make leashes, etc for kids that you can put in your child. Know your child, know their developmental stage, know the limitations of that and stop expecting them to think and reason like an adult.



That’s a parenting failure, not a kid failure.


Kids understand a lot more than we give them credit for and kids can be quickly trained with consistency and repetitive behavior.

My ADHD non-verbal toddler knew he didn’t get out of the CAR without a life jacket on at the marina.

He knew he didn’t go out to crowded places without his “leash backpack”.

Because we were CONSISTENT about those things - every single time - and those were the rules. Because I knew those boundaries needed to be firm and consistent for safety.

Two seconds at the car to put on a life jacket or put on a backpack. Every.Single.time. That’s all it took. .

I never once had to spank him, because I never once strayed from firm boundaries and rules. And he didn’t give me a hard time about those things because those were rules we had before we even left the house and it was his normal and the routine.

Did I turn the car around or change plans often? Yep.

But that’s part of being consistent and firm.

And it doesn’t resort to violence and hitting my kid.

Hi BirdInHand,

I have ADHD. 2 years before my son was born, the doctor and I decided to do a test and he concluded that, surprisingly, my ADHD is now stronger than when I was a kid. I know ADHD and what a pain it can be. But I also know what it gives me.
While my wife was pregnant, I worried my child would be like this too. So I kept a very close eye, and though we have not been to the doctor for this yet, I think he shows a lot of characteristics of a little boy on ADHD. lol. So I have decided to be as straight and honest with him as I can be. It works like a charm. He never has to worry because he knows already. But hold yourself if he thinks he know, but he is obviously wrong. You better take your time for him and explain to him pronto, because if you don't, you're in for a ride. No fits, because I don't buy that and he knows that, but he just keeps going on and on and on.... So you explain it to him, and than he is ok. Most of the time.

People have asked on several occasions though; Why he only listens to you?

Firm boundaries and rules, as you say.

Wonder where this goes when he's a teen... I hope he trusts me enough at that age to trust me with all the new realities he will be confronted with as a teen, because man, are those hormones gonna screw with him....

And I am starting to realize more and more that one of the most important key-words here is 'Trust'. This applies to every kid. ADHD just makes sure you have to remind them about a 1,000 times before the coin drops into place. And that's not because they're stupid. Often times it is quite the opposite actually. But they have soo much going on inside their head and all at the same time. So they need to learn to pipeline the information they receive. They need to learn which information they receive is relevant or important. And here trust is key. If he trust you, you will have a bigger chance to get a positive reaction from him.


Joey