Spanking: Is it still an effective method of discipline?

[JoeyJoystick]

The threat of spankings carry more weight than the actual act.

Hi SMTA,

Sorry, but I do not threaten my son. Him and me used to jokingly say stuff like that to each other, but I saw one time he was upset and we both pledged to each other to never say that again.

I keep failing to quit smoking. And he knows that. And here is the only threat I ever made to him. I told him if I catch him smoking I will hold him by his feet and clean his head, face and mouth upside down in the toilet. Very wrong. I meant it as a joke, kind off, but he took it seriously. And still does. But, I'm gonna leave this one for what it is. For now anyways.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Because kids don't always listen and then can't always intellectualize what you're trying to say to them.

Is it better to give your 3 year old a spanking after telling them multiple times not to run into the street with no success, or is it better that they be hit by a car?

Hi OINate,

Maybe it is better to just hold his/her hand.

Let's leave sentiment out of this for a sec. If you're walking on the pavement and your kid runs on the street and dies, the police will have a very very serious conversation with you to see if you can be held responsible. There is a reason for that. And the reason is that the responsibility lies with you. Now you can hit all your want, but all you achieve is that the kid does not want to be close to you, not only allowing the option to go on the street, but also providing the incentive. By holding the kids hand, you take away both the option and the incentive. The kid now feels warmth and your presence.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

5 million years of evolution, to start with.

But in our age, the reason are the safety of the child and instilling respect for authority.

A 3 year old isn't an adult who can reason fully. (Though most are more mature than the average leftist.) Lessons taught at an early age are often most effective with a swat on the behind.

Numerous studies - too many to count - show that early development is complete at around age 6. After that, spanking is no longer effective in training children to be civilized adults. But during the formative period, it is a critical tool in forming disciplined and socially adjusted children.

Hi Uncensored,

Sorry, but you need help. You should never be allowed anywhere near kids, let alone have them.

Seriously, they should make a mandatory test for people to see if they are fit for parenting (and while we're at it; fit for reproduction as well). Only after passing the test, you will be given the antidote that makes you fertile again. lol.


Joey

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Hi Snowflake,

Now a slightly more serious response though.

I do not recall any of the following. When I was young I had a habit of running away. My sister had to come back from school. My dad came back from work. The police were searching for me. The neighbours were searching for me. Not 1 time.... When finally, on the last occasion, my dad found me on a tricycle pushing buttons in an elevator of a high-rise building he spanked me. Or so the story goes anyways. And it worked, because I never did it again. Their concern was completely justified of course because they also found me on top of my tricycle on top of a wall between the pavement and the canal. How the hell a 3 year old manages to pull this of I don't know, but that's where the police found me one time. lol.

Many years later I found out when at a party my parents threw, there was a family friend who claimed it was ok to hit kids. I got angry and told him that it is never ok to hit kids, and proudly added that my mom and that had never once hit me. And than my mom started to cry and told the story I just mentioned above. The bottom line is that I do not have any recollection of ever being hit by my parents, and I am proud of that.

I now have a 6 year old boy. I have never once had to hit him, and I truly hope it never comes to that. I would be very very upset with myself.

The thing is, he is small. There is no way anyone can justify hurting a kid when other means are available. I used to seat him in the middle of the room on the floor in a Buddhist position. I would warn him several times. And than I took the timer and he had to sit in the middle of the room. He not sit? 5 more minutes. He hates it. He hates it soo much, that today, more than a year after the last time I done that, all I have to say is 'Three'. When I say that he knows I started counting down. It is at the moment I say three that he starts listening to me. And I mean instantly. And yet I never had to lay a finger on him. And he still loves me a lot. How can anyone argue with that.

Does it work? Yes! Are there better means? Hell yeah!. I notice that my son get's angry very quickly. But when I try to understand why he gets angry than I can explain it to him. The vast majority of the issues are because he thinks he understands, but he does not. So he is ready to learn more. I explain to him. He is not angry anymore and he now understands. So much soo, that the next time he will remind me if I do it wrong too. lol. I just can not justify hitting a kid. Me big. He small. Not sound fair. So my choices are, most of the time; Hit or explain. Ok, it's is not that black and white, but you're getting my drift by now. But the choice is easy. I struggle to make enough time available for him. But for this I always make time. And it pays back in a tremendous way. What 6 year old boy walks in your room just to shout; 'Daddy! I love you!'. I am 100% sure he would be less inclined to say that to me if I hit him...


Joey

I hope ever spanker on this thread reads your response.

 

[BirdinHand]

He hates it soo much, that today, more than a year after the last time I done that, all I have to say is 'Three

I can make eye contact with my son from across a playground, across a swimming pool, etc and raise my hand and put up a finger like counting 1…2…and he will immediately stop and come to me and we will talk. (And he regularly looks to me - if he’s a distance away - it’s an understanding we have. Check in, make eye contact/look my way every so often)

I haven’t gotten to 3 (which equals time out/packing up and leaving a place) in years

No raising my voice. No yelling. I don’t even have to get up if I’m sitting down. Just raise my hand, make eye contact and start counting with my fingers.




He’s 9. He’s a straight A student. He gets commendations from school on being such a good student and compliments from people in public for being respectful, etc.



Rarely yell. Never spanked him, but we have understandings and he listens because he knows I don’t make arbitrary rules. I respect him - he respects me.

 

[L88]

The threat of spankings carry more weight than the actual act.

That's still a threat of violence instead of taking the time to teach a child what is appropriate.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I can make eye contact with my son from across a playground, across a swimming pool, etc and raise my hand and put up a finger like counting 1…2…and he will immediately stop and come to me and we will talk. (And he regularly looks to me - if he’s a distance away - it’s an understanding we have. Check in, make eye contact/look my way every so often)

I haven’t gotten to 3 (which equals time out/packing up and leaving a place) in years

No raising my voice. No yelling. I don’t even have to get up if I’m sitting down. Just raise my hand, make eye contact and start counting with my fingers.




He’s 9. He’s a straight A student. He gets commendations from school on being such a good student and compliments from people in public for being respectful, etc.



Rarely yell. Never spanked him, but we have understandings and he listens because he knows I don’t make arbitrary rules. I respect him - he respects me.

Wish every spanker on here reads this comment.

 

[SMTA]

Hi SMTA,

Sorry, but I do not threaten my son. Him and me used to jokingly say stuff like that to each other, but I saw one time he was upset and we both pledged to each other to never say that again.

I keep failing to quit smoking. And he knows that. And here is the only threat I ever made to him. I told him if I catch him smoking I will hold him by his feet and clean his head, face and mouth upside down in the toilet. Very wrong. I meant it as a joke, kind off, but he took it seriously. And still does. But, I'm gonna leave this one for what it is. For now anyways.

Joey

You did threaten him.
That makes you a hypocrite, then.

 

[OlNate]

Hi OINate,

Maybe it is better to just hold his/her hand.

Let's leave sentiment out of this for a sec. If you're walking on the pavement and your kid runs on the street and dies, the police will have a very very serious conversation with you to see if you can be held responsible. There is a reason for that. And the reason is that the responsibility lies with you. Now you can hit all your want, but all you achieve is that the kid does not want to be close to you, not only allowing the option to go on the street, but also providing the incentive. By holding the kids hand, you take away both the option and the incentive. The kid now feels warmth and your presence.

Joey

Heya Joey. Hopefully you read everything i had to say in this thread, it would address this response, but I'll give it to you in a nutshell.

I benefited from spankings because that was the kind of kid I was. You guys act like a kid running into the street could only happen to bad parents. Let me tell you, there was a whole world of chaos i could create out of calm and a couple seconds.

I did not feel unloved, I did not grow up to eat kittens, I'm close with both my parents, and I never in my life doubted that mother (she was the one who dispensed the discipline) had my back.

My son, on the other hand, has never needed physical reinforcement, so hasn't received it. This is not me defending my actions, but rather my experience.

The narrative that you're giving me is incomplete, because it attempts to suggest that only one way works, and the other leads to inevitable doom. As a result it's as incorrect as saying all kids must be spanked in order to turn out OK. I can easily concede that you're right in some cases, perhaps even the majority, but my own lived experience, as the so called "victim", debunks it as an absolute truth for all cases.

I'm not mad at you for sticking up for kids, that's noble. But perhaps make some room for the fact that not all stories, or kids, are the same.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

You did threaten him.
That makes you a hypocrite, then.

Hi SMTA,

I have never threatened him in a serious manner. This was always in a playful manner. When he would shout he is gonna get bombs, guns and handgranates. And call the police. I underestimated how serious a game can be for him. And the second I realized, I reversed this too. So, sorry, but no hypocracy on my end. I say what I did.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Hopefully you read everything i had to say in this thread, it would address this response, but I'll give it to you in a nutshell.

I benefited from spankings because that was the kind of kid I was. You guys act like a kid running into the street could only happen to bad parents. Let me tell you, there was a whole world of chaos i could create out of calm and a couple seconds.

I did not feel unloved, I did not grow up to eat kittens, I'm close with both my parents, and I never in my life doubted that mother (she was the one who dispensed the discipline) had my back.

My son, on the other hand, has never needed physical reinforcement, so hasn't received it. This is not me defending my actions, but rather my experience.

The narrative that you're giving me is incomplete, because it attempts to suggest that only one way works, and the other leads to inevitable doom. As a result it's as incorrect as saying all kids must be spanked in order to turn out OK. I can easily concede that you're right in some cases, perhaps even the majority, but my own lived experience, as the so called "victim", debunks it as an absolute truth for all cases.

I'm not mad at you for sticking up for kids, that's noble. But perhaps make some room for the fact that not all stories, or kids, are the same.

Hi OINate,

I thought hard about this response. lol.

The truth is, of course I know that it works when you hit a kid. One may argue that they should have slapped me a few more times as well. All I am arguing for is that I think there are different approaches and the use of violence on kids is a somewhat outdated method in 2025 if you ask me.

If you look up and see how BirdInHand and myself dealt with it, you can clearly see that difficult kids can be fairly easily controlled without the use of any violence.


Joey

 

[OlNate]

Hi OINate,

I thought hard about this response. lol.

The truth is, of course I know that it works when you hit a kid. One may argue that they should have slapped me a few more times as well. All I am arguing for is that I think there are different approaches and the use of violence on kids is a somewhat outdated method in 2025 if you ask me.

If you look up and see how BirdInHand and myself dealt with it, you can clearly see that difficult kids can be fairly easily controlled without the use of any violence.


Joey

I feel like me telling you my son didn't need it, and so I didn't, should indicate that I agree that it's possible. I'm just not willing to suggest that there's such a thing as "one size fits all" when it comes to raising kids.

Look, here's the thing...hehe... No matter how much we try, we're always going to be on the hook for at least part of our kids' therapy bills. It's inevitable, we are human, and we won't get everything right. Physical reinforcement should be the last tool you reach for in your toolbox, but it's still worth having in there, even if you never use it. The human species has only recently balked at physical reinforcement, and yet has managed to survive through all those "outdated" years...hehe..

Maybe the best approach would be to shield kids from real abuse, and perhaps be a little less eager to tell other parents how to parent - I know you're not exactly doing that, but that's kinda what your judgement does anyway.

Wanna hear something funny? As it says in my sig, I'm neurodivergent AF. Along side that I wrestle with anxiety, depression, and CPTSD. After a literal lifetime of therapy, I have been told that the anxiety, depression, and CPTSD are a direct result of the people looking after me as a kid not understanding my neurodivergence. All the scoldings, all the being told not to do this, not to do that, why can't you just behave - a study suggests that a neurodivergent kid will get up to 20, 000 more negative interactions with the folks that look after them than a neurotypical kid by the time they hit the age of 10. That ****s with you, believe me.

I took a long time to understand the verbal queues and reproaches. All I knew is that I was "bad" (something my parents never thought, by the way, that's just what I came to believe...they were just understandably frustrated). The spankings, on the other hand, I understood - don't do _______, or there will be a painful consequence. It wasn't the spankings that messed me up, it was all the times my mother tried to avoid them. How about that, eh? hehe

How you deal with your kids has no bearing on the individual challenges and corresponding tactics that another parent needs to employ with their kids, because your kids and their kids are different. There are good, loving parents that spank, and there are kids that benefit more from that than anything else. Make room for them. They're doing their best, just like you.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

I feel like me telling you my son didn't need it, and so I didn't, should indicate that I agree that it's possible. I'm just not willing to suggest that there's such a thing as "one size fits all" when it comes to raising kids.

Look, here's the thing...hehe... No matter how much we try, we're always going to be on the hook for at least part of our kids' therapy bills. It's inevitable, we are human, and we won't get everything right. Physical reinforcement should be the last tool you reach for in your toolbox, but it's still worth having in there, even if you never use it. The human species has only recently balked at physical reinforcement, and yet has managed to survive through all those "outdated" years...hehe..

Maybe the best approach would be to shield kids from real abuse, and perhaps be a little less eager to tell other parents how to parent - I know you're not exactly doing that, but that's kinda what your judgement does anyway.

Wanna hear something funny? As it says in my sig, I'm neurodivergent AF. Along side that I wrestle with anxiety, depression, and CPTSD. After a literal lifetime of therapy, I have been told that the anxiety, depression, and CPTSD are a direct result of the people looking after me as a kid not understanding my neurodivergence. All the scoldings, all the being told not to do this, not to do that, why can't you just behave - a study suggests that a neurodivergent kid will get up to 20, 000 more negative interactions with the folks that look after them than a neurotypical kid by the time they hit the age of 10. That ****s with you, believe me.

I took a long time to understand the verbal queues and reproaches. All I knew is that I was "bad" (something my parents never thought, by the way, that's just what I came to believe...they were just understandably frustrated). The spankings, on the other hand, I understood - don't do _______, or there will be a painful consequence. It wasn't the spankings that messed me up, it was all the times my mother tried to avoid them. How about that, eh? hehe

How you deal with your kids has no bearing on the individual challenges and corresponding tactics that another parent needs to employ with their kids, because your kids and their kids are different. There are good, loving parents that spank, and there are kids that benefit more from that than anything else. Make room for them. They're doing their best, just like you.

Hi OINate,

So we can shake hands. We got more in common than appears on the surface. Too much ADHD and leaning towards Asperger. The depressions sound familiar too. Like my mom used to say when I was a kid; Oh oh, the leaves are falling again. Every year. And every spring Joey get's happy again . So here the first reason why I love Thailand. Having said that. Thailand is not enough to stop a real depression I noticed.

But let me be clear also. I am not mad or angry at you at all. I hear where you're coming from. I also think my parents could have done a few things differently. I just think there are different ways of dealing with kids like us. But there are not just different kids, all parents are also different. And kids, all kids I am tempted say here, are incredibly good at finding your trigger points. Because they want your attention, and negative attentions is still better for them than no attention.

Joey

 

[Mika-El]

What is the definition for "spanking". Its an open ended definition that ranges from a mild slap on the bum to violent battery with injuries on the other. It can be done gently or done out of control where the words not just the physical contact can lead to permanent trauma or injuries.

No one can agree on what is an acceptable or unacceptable spanking.

Having been someone who had to investigate, mediate or put abusers in jail I can tell you the word itself is meaningless to me-it was the degree of force and negative impact of it that had me becoming involved and often by the time I was it was far too late to undo the wounds and all we could do is put someone in jail or counsel people to leave. Most beaten people I encountered stayed fearing they had no place to leave to and that their husbands or parents would find them anyways.

I will stop there. This topic triggers me.

 

[Mika-El]

I feel like me telling you my son didn't need it, and so I didn't, should indicate that I agree that it's possible. I'm just not willing to suggest that there's such a thing as "one size fits all" when it comes to raising kids.

Look, here's the thing...hehe... No matter how much we try, we're always going to be on the hook for at least part of our kids' therapy bills. It's inevitable, we are human, and we won't get everything right. Physical reinforcement should be the last tool you reach for in your toolbox, but it's still worth having in there, even if you never use it. The human species has only recently balked at physical reinforcement, and yet has managed to survive through all those "outdated" years...hehe..

Maybe the best approach would be to shield kids from real abuse, and perhaps be a little less eager to tell other parents how to parent - I know you're not exactly doing that, but that's kinda what your judgement does anyway.

Wanna hear something funny? As it says in my sig, I'm neurodivergent AF. Along side that I wrestle with anxiety, depression, and CPTSD. After a literal lifetime of therapy, I have been told that the anxiety, depression, and CPTSD are a direct result of the people looking after me as a kid not understanding my neurodivergence. All the scoldings, all the being told not to do this, not to do that, why can't you just behave - a study suggests that a neurodivergent kid will get up to 20, 000 more negative interactions with the folks that look after them than a neurotypical kid by the time they hit the age of 10. That ****s with you, believe me.

I took a long time to understand the verbal queues and reproaches. All I knew is that I was "bad" (something my parents never thought, by the way, that's just what I came to believe...they were just understandably frustrated). The spankings, on the other hand, I understood - don't do _______, or there will be a painful consequence. It wasn't the spankings that messed me up, it was all the times my mother tried to avoid them. How about that, eh? hehe

How you deal with your kids has no bearing on the individual challenges and corresponding tactics that another parent needs to employ with their kids, because your kids and their kids are different. There are good, loving parents that spank, and there are kids that benefit more from that than anything else. Make room for them. They're doing their best, just like you.

I strongly applaud your words. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Mika-El]

Hi OINate,

So we can shake hands. We got more in common than appears on the surface. Too much ADHD and leaning towards Asperger. The depressions sound familiar too. Like my mom used to say when I was a kid; Oh oh, the leaves are falling again. Every year. And every spring Joey get's happy again . So here the first reason why I love Thailand. Having said that. Thailand is not enough to stop a real depression I noticed.

But let me be clear also. I am not mad or angry at you at all. I hear where you're coming from. I also think my parents could have done a few things differently. I just think there are different ways of dealing with kids like us. But there are not just different kids, all parents are also different. And kids, all kids I am tempted say here, are incredibly good at finding your trigger points. Because they want your attention, and negative attentions is still better for them than no attention.

Joey

Me too. Lol a lot of us ADHD types. No wonder I like you lol. Old Nate you can see soeaks with a calm that came from his storm.

 

[Parker_Chess]

Spanking in certain situations is fine. However, I don't believe it should be normative and the first instinct anytime your child disobeys. I'm pretty surprised by the poll results.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Spanking in certain situations is fine. However, I don't believe it should be normative and the first instinct anytime your child disobeys. I'm pretty surprised by the poll results.

Almost 60% agree it is abusive. I like those poll results.

 

[bomberfox]

What is with this dude's obsession with hyper religious chicks who have no idea he exists? Now he's all in for beating kids cause the bible tells him so? Yeah, definitely not getting stable home vibes here.

This is the kind of person Kunt Hovind churns out.

 

[OlNate]

Hi OINate,

So we can shake hands.

hehe...ok, I'll shake you hand, but I don't think we're fighting. I have enjoyed our discussion. Hopefully my writing style doesn't confuse you...I can be blunt, but I try to mellow that out when it comes to topics like this.

We got more in common than appears on the surface. Too much ADHD and leaning towards Asperger.

hehe...right on. Same here, but I have both feet planted firmly in level 1 autism.

The depressions sound familiar too. Like my mom used to say when I was a kid; Oh oh, the leaves are falling again. Every year. And every spring Joey get's happy again . So here the first reason why I love Thailand. Having said that. Thailand is not enough to stop a real depression I noticed.

Depression can be tough. I don't really try to stop it anymore, I just understand now how to identify it and ride it out.

But let me be clear also. I am not mad or angry at you at all. I hear where you're coming from.

Good, I'm not mad at you either.

I also think my parents could have done a few things differently. I just think there are different ways of dealing with kids like us.

Yep, that's exactly my point. There are different ways of dealing with kids in general, not just kids like us, because all kids are different. I think this is something we both know as neurodivergent people, as our greatest challenges come from people who insist there is such a thing as "normal", and that we are not it. I feel like that should give us both the empathy required to understand that insisting on everything being able to put into convenient boxes is actually the most harmful trait of neurotypical society, and that being the case, we probably ought not to engage in that kind of thing ourselves.

But there are not just different kids, all parents are also different.

Very true.

And kids, all kids I am tempted say here, are incredibly good at finding your trigger points. Because they want your attention, and negative attentions is still better for them than no attention.

Yeah, this is true as well....hehe... Though I will say, I got lucky with my kid, as he only does that to a point, and he picks his times...hehe...

Joey

I don't see anything to refute here, so I think we land where we land. A lot of people are having this thread banging each other over the head, creating absolutes, and generally just being judgemental from a place of limited understanding. You appear to have kept an open mind, and were willing to let the conversation play out without demanding a pound of flesh, so it has been nice talking to you.

 

[OlNate]

I strongly applaud your words. Thank you for sharing.

(Sorry, I'm still awkward with receiving compliments, I didn't get many around the time "normal" people learn how to respond to them...hehe...so you get emojis and a goofy response...hehe... )

 

[Atreus21]

Let me state this: Though retired I know quite a few kids and their parents. Kids nowadays are labeled as lazy, entitled, spoiled, and snarky.
Not my experience. I could post dozens of studies that show that children that are spanked are actually more likely to grow up wanting to spank their kids than parents who use other methods to discipline.

Of all the parents I know, none use spanking, and their kids are doing fine. Mind you, that is just from a casual observation, not exactly a scientific study.

Still................... spanking is still perceived as a necessary form of discipline. And arguments for and against can become quite intense. Typically "Don't tell me how to discipline my child!"

So, straight up, is spanking effective? Or, as it is happening in some countries, should be outlawed? Even if not outlawed, should it still be used as a form of discipline in this day and age?

To me, effectiveness is less important that justice.

Take this scenario: your oldest child, age 4, pushes your youngest child, age 2, down the stairs. As the 2 year old lay crying at the bottom, the 4 year old stands over him, and laughs.

What is a just punishment for such calculated cruelty and mockery? I can't think of any non-violent one, if for no other reason than to demonstrate to the 2 year old that his parents will severely punish anyone who harms him like that.

I voted that spanking should be used as a last resort, reserved for cruelty.

 

[bythoughts]

The same theory applies to spanking as war: it can be justified only to prevent greater danger to the child. Spanking should never be used if a child is messy, clumsy, disrespectful, careless of the carpet, says really mean things, or can't grok the notion of potty training. But it can be used if a child plays unsafely with a candle, walks into the street without looking, runs along a ledge, etc.

The parent should always be frightened during a spanking, never angry, and the force used should be mild enough that the child remembers the parent's distress much more than his own pain. But if it assists in getting the point across, and saving the child's life, it is impossible to speak against it.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

A lot of people are having this thread banging each other over the head, creating absolutes, and generally just being judgemental from a place of limited understanding.

Hi OINate,

The difference between some of the others and you is big. First of all, you stated that you were on the receiving end of it. Secondly, you try to make the point, with some success I may add, that it was the right thing to do. I can reason with you. And you do agree in concept that violence should not be used against kids. But you have also seen a few up here that are off-track and need help to raise there kids. And those people I will bang over there head. Though admittedly, our conversation derailed this one a bit in this thread. But I can see some got the banging they deserved from others. Lol.

I really do not like violence. After I was 16 I do not recall ever having been in a fight ever. I jumped in between many times and separated them. And coming to think of that, I actually also did that with a mother and child one time. 3 people in a bus waiting for departure. 20 minutes maybe. Kid is bored and starts walking in the empty bus. Mom angry and hits kid. Boy plays again. Mom hits again. Me shouting; The next time you hit the kid, I hit you. Mother quiet. Kid also very very quiet.... hahahaha. I must have been about 18 at the time I think.

I promised myself I would never hit a woman. When my first wife made me so mad that I wanted to hit her I decided to leave her the same day. About 15 years ago, I did hit a woman though. My girlfriend at the time. She was angry and slapped me in the face. I hit her back in the face instantly without thinking. I do not regret it. It was instinct and self defence. I asked her to leave my house the next morning after we had cooled down. And here's the thing with kids. I can not leave my son behind now, can I? I truly hope I will never hit my boy. It would be an utterly disgraceful display of fathership. But can I promise I will never do that?

Joey

 

[BirdinHand]

Take this scenario: your oldest child, age 4, pushes your youngest child, age 2, down the stairs. As the 2 year old lay crying at the bottom, the 4 year old stands over him, and laughs

I’m going to take a wild guess here that you don’t have children and/or don’t understand developmental stages with children.

Four year olds aren’t really capable of

calculated cruelty and mockery

Doing dumb things?

Yep. They do that quite a bit. Their brains aren’t fully able to comprehend actions and consequences of actions at that age.

Calculated cruelty at 4?

That is a real stretch developmentally and if a 4 year old was exhibiting signs of “calculated cruelty” then a parent has the responsibility to not leave them in a situation where they CAN harm another child and also to bring in professionals - because you are very likely dealing with some sort of sociopathy, etc.

I can't think of any non-violent one, if for no other reason than to demonstrate to the 2 year old that his parents will severely punish anyone who harms him like that

The scenario you described is really going to be a very very unlikely one - and it isn’t going to be resolved by spanking.

If a 4 year old is demonstrating calculated cruelty - they need significant intervention by trained professionals. They don’t need to be spanked.

And the parent may or may not need to consider removing the 4 year old or the two year old from the household and/or never leaving them unsupervised alone together because of the risks.

In all honestly - 4 and 2 year olds really shouldn’t be left unsupervised to start with - especially not by steps. And you really should have child proof gates around steps with 2 year olds around to start with