Spanking: Is it still an effective method of discipline?

[SNOWFLAKE]

If you have to hit a 4 year old, you shouldn't be a parent.

Yet the same people who think it is ok to spank a 4 year old would NEVER think of spanking a 94 yr old parent that lives with them, has dementia, and is misbehaving in far worse ways than a 4 year old would.
OR............. maybe those with that kind of mindset would consider spanking a 94 yr old with dementia.

 

[trumptman]

My son is 9 and has been in wineries, bars, fancy restaurants, airplanes, trains, etc. He’s seen a LOT more of the world and experienced a lot more than I had at his age.

The “leash” days were from the time when he was a toddler and walking/running until he was about preK aged.

Where many people had their kids in strollers/wagons, etc as a toddler? We had a nifty little insulated backpack with a leash attached to it that clipped at his chest. He couldn’t wander off and get hurt - and he learned that Mom wasn’t a pack mule to carry his stuff around either

Zoo, aquariums, festivals, boardwalks, etc - the kiddo and I went to all of them real simply with me wearing a backpack and him wearing his backpack and go see and do whatever.

He learned by walking right next to me and us constantly talking - even when he would just be babbling along because he didn’t have verbal expression at that point - or was using his communication device.

Wagons/strollers, etc couldn’t work for us because my son didn’t have expressive language. We relied on the ability to have constant eye contact/use sign language, use facial expressions and body language. He understood ME - and I understood him.

Every parent has to find what works for them.


But I’ll never understand spanking and hitting a kid. I just don’t get it.

You do realize there is a world out there where kids don't have the experiences your child had. You state even you didn't have them when you were a child. Basically you are the privileged speaking down to the underprivileged. It's your right to do that but your judgement should be reserved.

There are literally countless other ways to parent and discipline. If you wouldn’t accept being hit by your partner or your boss, why is it acceptable to hit your kid? Under any circumstances?

How do you put a kid in the timeout corner when there are eight people living in that two bedroom apartment or when they are sharing their room with three other siblings?

What does it really TEACH them?

Again I want to emphasize I appreciate your sharing and I hope my replies have tried to be respectful of your sharing but the point remains that the world is very different out there for different people.

As a child I often helped around my Dad's shop. It was a truck as in diesel shop. You saw many, many people missing digits and limbs. Mistakes don't just hurt feelings, they hurt people physically and sometimes even result in death.

In that environment things were sometimes physical but the consequences were far worse. Pick up that flywheel but be careful, if it slips you'll lose a finger.

There are places in the world where these are common things.

All I've tried to ask, respectfully is what happens when one world intersects another world. Your child had to wander off to get hurt. There are plenty of places in this world where you don't have to wander off to get hurt. There are places where if you don't remain vigilant the world will wander in and give you a dose of reality.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

You’re missing the point. All the posts saying I hit/never hit my kids and they turned out to be X ignores the rest of parenting and the impact it had on said children turning out to be X.

Fine. No argument there. But to say kids need controlling or training is treating them no different than a dog. I think one of our posters on here already made that link. Dogs and children need training was the argument.
No thanks.

 

[BirdinHand]

Funny thing, is that I used to privately snicker (my wife did, too) when we would see kids on leashes out in public. When we would later talk about it, we concluded that was just something we would never do with our own child.

Then, my daughter wandered away from my wife in a Gymboree store at the mall. The place was stuffed with racks of clothes and such, so you couldn’t see the little tot through everything. My wife went into a panic and the manager of the store lowered the gates to lockdown the store until she was hopefully found. She was scared to death that she had been abducted. She still says it was the worst scare she ever had. My daughter was innocently found back in a corner looking at hair sets and party shoes.

We changed our tune about those kid leashes, and we understood why some parents used them. Like anything else in this life, it was no longer a joke when it happens to you.

My kiddo and I have always gone practically everywhere together

That little backpack with the attached leash was our little “safety net” to make sure that if I was paying a clerk at a register, fishing around in my purse for a ringing phone, etc…a curious toddler couldn’t wander off and get lost.

I really didn’t care what anyone thought, it worked for us.

Today? He’s 9…and he’s usually really good at staying close in crowds.

But when we go to crowded places with lots of people - baseball/football games, amusement parks, carnivals/festivals, the boardwalk, concerts, beaches at the Jersey shore, etc? It’s an AirTag - either in the shoe under his insole or in a little caribiner that gets tied in the inside of his swimsuit.

Because sometimes you can get separated. Life happens. He knows the rule - if we get separated - stand still - or if you get scared - find a nearby lifeguard/security guard/police officer and stand with them. Mom will find you because you have your AirTag.



I do a lot of solo parenting because of my husband’s work schedule and it works for us as a “fall back”

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

My kiddo and I have always gone practically everywhere together

That little backpack with the attached leash was our little “safety net” to make sure that if I was paying a clerk at a register, fishing around in my purse for a ringing phone, etc…a curious toddler couldn’t wander off and get lost.

I really didn’t care what anyone thought, it worked for us.

Today? He’s 9…and he’s usually really good at staying close in crowds.

But when we go to crowded places with lots of people - baseball/football games, amusement parks, carnivals/festivals, the boardwalk, concerts, beaches at the Jersey shore, etc? It’s an AirTag - either in the shoe under his insole or in a little caribiner that gets tied in the inside of his swimsuit.

Because sometimes you can get separated. Life happens. He knows the rule - if we get separated - stand still - or if you get scared - find a nearby lifeguard/security guard/police officer and stand with them. Mom will find you because you have your AirTag.



I do a lot of solo parenting because of my husband’s work schedule and it works for us as a “fall back”

The same people who would ridicule you for leashing a child for SAFETLY reasons would spank their children to teach them a lesson. Odd how some people think.

 

[Revelation]

every kid is different - most need spankings/physical discipline of some kind

yes.

i needed spanking very hard and with a good leather belt, sometimes daily. it used to tire my mother out and she wore out leather belts on me.

4 years old cannot logic/reason like an adult. They do understand do this = good, don't do this = a little physical pain

discipline early on means not having to do nearly as much later on IMO

yep. start early and keep that paddle or belt coming at them until you see a real difference in behavior.

my dad used an electric cord on us once, and it stung very hard on all 3 of us. the screaming would have broke yur eardrums, but he believed the bible said this being the Best Way.

other forms of discipline didn't work to good on me.


blessings all. keep yur leather belts handy and the swatting a plenty. it tended to keep my memory fresh on the way things needed to be.


.

 

[ataraxia]

Too often parenting classes are stigmatized as something bad parents have to take without realizing how much many parents could benefit. I don't mean to generalize but it seems to me like a vast majority of parents could use one of these courses. Even me, if I could go back. There's not much to prepare you for actually being a parent and then you only know how your parent's parented.

It feel very fortunate that we found that ad on our son's daycare billboard when he was 4. I really think it made a big difference.

He is now a fine young man, and I'm very proud of him. He graduated from a very prestigious college (Ivy League), in 3 years, got an MBA, and is now a second year medical student. I couldn't be prouder as a parent.

 

[trumptman]

I didn't want my kids trained. Comparing the discipline of a child to that of a dog, JAYSUS!

I'm sorry but when someone mentions remaining at your side while you walk with them on a leash, or not pulling on a leash or being wiling to remain in place because of a leash, it sounds like dog training.

Humans are also part of the animal kingdom. I didn't say it was a terrible thing. I just said I don't see one as enlightened and the other as destructive.

THAT doesn't make it ok. What a sad argument to make. Do you think violence is acceptable against a wife, a senior, someone with development problems, against a neighbor or anyone else you get angry at?

Sorry that feelings about violence are not the only things that determine when violence will occur. Many people commenting here sound like they had a very privileged and protective upbringing. However that is not always the state of the world.

You run a tow truck and make your living in part by repossessing cars that are 2-3 months behind on payments. If you take that car your family eats. If you don't, they don't. The person who sees you've hitched up their car in the parking of the mall they were shopping at doesn't want you to take it.

Do you think this will always end up in a discussion and calmly talking or had you better carry a taser minimum?

The world is not always talk and policy. There's times when it is violent and aggressive. You need to be able to operate in that part of the real world.

Sorry for being harsh, but the mental image you have painted on what you believe is good parenting is frightening.

It's not my mental image. It is what you are imagining. When people think a subject is taboo, they have hang ups and bad mental imagery about it and that isn't my fault.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Yet the same people who think it is ok to spank a 4 year old would NEVER think of spanking a 94 yr old parent that lives with them, has dementia, and is misbehaving in far worse ways than a 4 year old would.
OR............. maybe those with that kind of mindset would consider spanking a 94 yr old with dementia.

Elder abuse is rampant. I'd like to see if there's a correlation between elder abuse and parents who spank their children.

 

[ataraxia]

yes.

i needed spanking very hard and with a good leather belt, sometimes daily. it used to tire my mother out and she wore out leather belts on me.





yep. start early and keep that paddle or belt coming at them until you see a real difference in behavior.

my dad used an electric cord on us once, and it stung very hard on all 3 of us. the screaming would have broke yur eardrums, but he believed the bible said this being the Best Way.

other forms of discipline didn't work to good on me.


blessings all. keep yur leather belts handy and the swatting a plenty. it tended to keep my memory fresh on the way things needed to be.


.

Dear Lord. Sounds almost too frightening to be real. If this was real, I am so sorry.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I also don't hit my dog, FWIW.

 

[trumptman]

Yeesh, your arguments get more and more frightening. You are NOT defending yourself when a kid is misbehaving. Unless that kid is physically attacking you. We are talking about spanking and you are relating that to someone assaulting you so that you have to "defend yourself?"

You make it sound like every kid respects boundaries just because their parents tell them no or have them on a leash.

I'm not saying your defending yourself from your kid. I'm saying if your kid has zero experience with any sort of violence or aggression in life what happens when that violence or aggression comes to them?

I'm not saying your kid is the neighbor. I'm saying what happens when your kid is the adult and expects a leash or chat will protect them from that neighbor.

 

[Grogu]

My kiddo and I have always gone practically everywhere together

That little backpack with the attached leash was our little “safety net” to make sure that if I was paying a clerk at a register, fishing around in my purse for a ringing phone, etc…a curious toddler couldn’t wander off and get lost.

I really didn’t care what anyone thought, it worked for us.

Today? He’s 9…and he’s usually really good at staying close in crowds.

But when we go to crowded places with lots of people - baseball/football games, amusement parks, carnivals/festivals, the boardwalk, concerts, beaches at the Jersey shore, etc? It’s an AirTag - either in the shoe under his insole or in a little caribiner that gets tied in the inside of his swimsuit.

Because sometimes you can get separated. Life happens. He knows the rule - if we get separated - stand still - or if you get scared - find a nearby lifeguard/security guard/police officer and stand with them. Mom will find you because you have your AirTag.



I do a lot of solo parenting because of my husband’s work schedule and it works for us as a “fall back”

The Apple AirTag idea is a really good one. Wish we would have had that technology 26 years ago.

I really respect your accounts and experiences here because it’s real life for you. The objective is effective and safe parenting for your kid(s), no matter what anybody else thinks. You get that. @OlNate gets it, too.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

You make it sound like every kid respects boundaries just because their parents tell them no or have them on a leash.

I'm not saying your defending yourself from your kid. I'm saying if your kid has zero experience with any sort of violence or aggression in life what happens when that violence or aggression comes to them?

I'm not saying your kid is the neighbor. I'm saying what happens when your kid is the adult and expects a leash or chat will protect them from that neighbor.

You compared spanking to defending yourself. Nuff said?

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I also don't hit my dog, FWIW.

Hiting dogs and children can make you feel like a MAN.

 

[tharock220]

Fine. No argument there. But to say kids need controlling or training is treating them no different than a dog. I think one of our posters on here already made that link. Dogs and children need training was the argument.
No thanks.

This thread is about spanking and discipline by extension. You can fixate on calling it controlling, training, or teaching. The purpose is the child knowing what behaviors are acceptable, and it’s only part of being a parent, but an important one. It sounds like we’re in agreement on most of this.

Just as important are being a provider, preparing them for adulthood, and making an engaged, enjoyable childhood possible. So the anecdotes about how discipline affected posters’ kids don’t matter as much as they think they do. I never hit my kids and they’re all screwed up, clearly I should’ve beat them. The fact that I never bothered cooking them dinner or taking them in vacation had nothing to do with it.

I don’t have an issue with spanking. If I did the I would have objected to its use by my wife when our daughters were younger. I’m a 6-5, 270 pound man. I’m not hitting any elementary school aged child.

 

[trumptman]

You compared spanking to defending yourself. Nuff said?

I'm comparing violence to violence and exposure to the fact it exists.

Do you understand that if I said you treat sex as taboo around a child then they might grow up to have a bunch of misconceptions about it as an adult you'd consider that perfectly reasonable but somehow you don't apply that with violence?

Aggression and violence are real things. They aren't to be shunned. They are to be taught, experienced and understood. They are tools to be used appropriately.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

When I was a small child ( in foster care) spanking was the go-to for every infraction. Hardly a day went by that I wasn't hit by some adult.

I can still remember fantasizing about what I would do to take out my revenge on my tormentors when I was big enough - right before I cried myself to sleep.

Fortunately, I outgrew those evil thoughts.

When I became a parent, I never, ever, laid a hand on my child. She grew up to be a happy, well-adjusted, law abiding, productive adult, and today we have a loving, respectful, and healthy relationship.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Aggression and violence are real things. They aren't to be shunned. They are to be taught, experienced and understood.

No thanks.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Elder abuse is rampant. I'd like to see if there's a correlation between elder abuse and parents who spank their children.

Once you go down that road to using physical punishment on kids, it's not a stretch to extend that form of discipline to other family members.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Dear Lord. Sounds almost too frightening to be real. If this was real, I am so sorry.

View attachment 67573212

I wouldn't want to hazard a guess. But let that kind of "discipline" come known to the authorities, and watch anyone using those forms of discipline being investigated and charged.
Spanking is one things, the tactics being suggested by Revelation are illegal, immoral, and disgusting.

 

[trumptman]

Once you go down that road to using physical punishment on kids, it's not a stretch to extend that form of discipline to other family members.

This is an actual logical fallacy called slippery slope.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

This is an actual logical fallacy called slippery slope.

I KNOW you won't read any of the material in the following link:

Spanking: How We Have Normalized Hitting Our Kids and Why We Need to Stop – Psychology in Action

And the little bit that you might read you will belittle because what is contained within that link will hit a nerve.
But if you actually cared about the subject, you would read that link and many others that speak to the effects of spanking.
As for my logical fallacy, don't be too sure of yourself. A light spanking that is done on very rare occasions is quite different from using spanking as a form of discipline. AND on that note the spanking is done more for the relief of the parent than for the benefit of the child. AND if a person thinks that spanking for discipline is a good form of discipline, then yes, it isn't a stretch that such a person would consider it also a good form of discipline on other family members.

 

[stealthycat]

If you have to hit a 4 year old, you shouldn't be a parent.

you don't "hit" kids

you spank/discipline them

if you don't know the difference you probably don't have kids imo

 

[stealthycat]

yes.

i needed spanking very hard and with a good leather belt, sometimes daily. it used to tire my mother out and she wore out leather belts on me.

Dad used a belt and switch on me once of twice - I was a good kid, I didn't need much discipline though

yep. start early and keep that paddle or belt coming at them until you see a real difference in behavior.
my dad used an electric cord on us once, and it stung very hard on all 3 of us. the screaming would have broke yur eardrums, but he believed the bible said this being the Best Way.
other forms of discipline didn't work to good on me.

blessings all. keep yur leather belts handy and the swatting a plenty. it tended to keep my memory fresh on the way things needed to be.

I know a lot of parents who didn't spank/discipline .... I can think of none of them that didn't have behavior problem with their kids