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Spanish Documents Suggest Irish Arrived in America Before Columbus

faithful_servant said:
Lots of people "discovered" the Americas, but it was Columbus who opened the doors to the New World. We know that there was a very large population in N. America that was nearly wiped out by disease a generation or so prior to Columbus' arriving and it's a pretty safe assumption that the disease was most likely the result of an unfortunate encounter with a previous "discoverer."
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Where did you get this alternate history from?


faithful_servant said:
The thing is, without that disease, there's very little chance of a successful colonization of N America. Too much competition for resources and too much opposition.
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No, the thing is stone does not have a chance against steel and gunpowder.

Also recall that Europeans obtained he start of a 400-year foothold leading to eventual dominance in India at about the same time as Columbus, and India did have steel and maybe probably some gunpowder too, together with a population probably much larger than 1492 native North America.
 
truthatallcost said:
Have you seen this? Its a great documentary on PBS about Jamestown, and new discoveries of Cannibalism. Was going to post it as a thread, but not sure anyone would care.

Jamestown’s Dark Winter | Full Episode | Secrets of the Dead | PBS


Video expires on the 27th but it's on On Demand too.
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Been looking for something to watch. That'll be next.

Your thread gave me the impetus to read up on a couple of folks that I hadn't in a while... Francisco Pizzaro, Balboa, Cabot, Cortes, Da Gama, Magellan, and a few others. One thing I found interesting that I didn't know... most of those guys knew each other, with some having some "interesting" interactions. For example, it was Pizzaro who arrested Balboa, resulting in the latter's execution.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Been looking for something to watch. That'll be next.

Your thread gave me the impetus to read up on a couple of folks that I hadn't in a while... Francisco Pizzaro, Balboa, Cabot, Cortes, Da Gama, Magellan, and a few others. One thing I found interesting that I didn't know... most of those guys knew each other, with some having some "interesting" interactions. For example, it was Pizzaro who arrested Balboa, resulting in the latter's execution.
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Excellent. I've recently started going back and reading as well. I realize how much I've missed it, as its a fantastic diversion from today's bleak political landscape.

I was always amazed at the stories of these guys constantly fighting each other, while fighting the Natives. I think Pizzaro's death had more to do with the Almagro feud than Balboa. Pizzaro had Almagro Jr's dad killed, so Almagro had Pizzaro killed, and Almagro Jr was killed too! Crazy time period.
 
truthatallcost said:
Excellent. I've recently started going back and reading as well. I realize how much I've missed it, as its a fantastic diversion from today's bleak political landscape.

I was always amazed at the stories of these guys constantly fighting each other, while fighting the Natives. I think Pizzaro's death had more to do with the Almagro feud than Balboa. Pizzaro had Almagro Jr's dad killed, so Almagro had Pizzaro killed, and Almagro Jr was killed too! Crazy time period.
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Human nature hasn't changed much since then, has it? Many men, all wanting to be the top dog, all fighting with each other.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Human nature hasn't changed much since then, has it? Many men, all wanting to be the top dog, all fighting with each other.
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Exactly, there's nothing new to this. Except, at least in their day, they had to put their skin on the line to reap the rewards of foreign conquest. Dubya was no Francisco Pizzaro.
 
You DP people pizz me off some times.

I rode around all freaking day yesterday wondering how St. Brendan could do a 3000 mile journey in a leather skinned boat, when I worry about my own homemade wooden skiffs out on the bay 3 miles offshore.
 
RetiredUSN said:
You DP people pizz me off some times.

I rode around all freaking day yesterday wondering how St. Brendan could do a 3000 mile journey in a leather skinned boat, when I worry about my own homemade wooden skiffs out on the bay 3 miles offshore.
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The Vikings did it, albeit with wooden boats. Their settlements are documented in North America.
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Do you fish out there on the bay? Catch anything good?
 
truthatallcost said:
Thoughts? Comments?
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The Irish were the first Europeans in the New World? Heck, I thought everyone knew that.
Patrick Kelly

And:
"Saint Brendan of Clonfert (c. 484 – c. 577) (Irish: Naomh Breandán; Latin: Brendanus; Icelandic: (heilagur) Brandanus), called "the Navigator", "the Voyager", "the Anchorite", or "the Bold", is one of the early Irish monastic saints. He is chiefly renowned for his legendary quest to the "Isle of the Blessed," also called Saint Brendan's Island. The Voyage of Saint Brendan could be called an immram (Irish navigational story). He was one of the Twelve Apostles of Ireland.[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan

Google images of carvings by Olmec Indians of Mexico. When I see those carvings in Villahermosa I suspect there may have been a few men from Africa who landed there.
san_lorenzo1.jpg
 
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Patrickt said:
The Irish were the first Europeans in the New World? Heck, I thought everyone knew that.
Patrick Kelly

And:
"Saint Brendan of Clonfert (c. 484 – c. 577) (Irish: Naomh Breandán; Latin: Brendanus; Icelandic: (heilagur) Brandanus), called "the Navigator", "the Voyager", "the Anchorite", or "the Bold", is one of the early Irish monastic saints. He is chiefly renowned for his legendary quest to the "Isle of the Blessed," also called Saint Brendan's Island. The Voyage of Saint Brendan could be called an immram (Irish navigational story). He was one of the Twelve Apostles of Ireland.[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan

Google images of carvings by Olmec Indians of Mexico. When I see those carvings in Villahermosa I suspect there may have been a few men from Africa who landed there.
View attachment 67203287
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I'll have to look at both topics you mentioned, very interesting stuff.
 
shrubnose said:
The Native Americans got to America first.

Everyone else arrived far behind them.
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Who themselves came in waves with the earlier settlers and migrants being supplanted, pushed, and sometimes conquered by those who came afterwards. I believe that is still the prevailing theory of what happened to the Clovis culture.
 
Threegoofs said:
For a clue to how credible the story is, realize it is sourced exclusively from an examiner.com article, which is approximately as credible as a DP post.

Get a real, academic reference and it might have some credibility.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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e73b8cefde86c4f9ba4defbd8e18351f.jpg
 
RetiredUSN said:
You DP people pizz me off some times.

I rode around all freaking day yesterday wondering how St. Brendan could do a 3000 mile journey in a leather skinned boat, when I worry about my own homemade wooden skiffs out on the bay 3 miles offshore.
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Tim Severin did it.
 
Patrickt said:
Google images of carvings by Olmec Indians of Mexico. When I see those carvings in Villahermosa I suspect there may have been a few men from Africa who landed there.
View attachment 67203287
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faces2.jpg



maxresdefault-1.jpg


Native-Olmec-compare-2.jpg


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truthatallcost said:
Story doesn't say "whites are the true natives". Story says that some Irish sailors possibly predated Columbus.
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I can appreciate this stuff. It is fascinating.

It is possible of course. If people can discover tiny islands in the pacific while in tiny canoes...why couldn't people with big boats with sails discover a given continent? There is evidence that people in the African region made it to Brazil as well. Why not?

Columbus document and started the true wave. But why couldn't some explorers make it west? Especially if they landed and never returned? It isn't like we didn't have sailors back then.
 
I have complete certainty of pre columbian contact. South America and North America already have the evidence. I don't know about this specific claim, but it is possibles


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truthatallcost said:
Spanish documents suggest Irish arrived in America before Columbus - IrishCentral.com
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When I was lerning history in school, the spanish portuguese and british settlers had claims of indians who spoke english. No one questioned it, and teachers ignored questions on why.

I do know the british long before settling america would dump prisoners in america, but do not know the exact timeline they did it. Likely though other settlers who found english speaking indians was from prisoners dumped there who taught the natives english. If I recall correctly britain used australia in the same way for a while.
 
dimensionallava said:
the red hair could just be clay or dye, maybe even just a case of albinism, which is common among secluded tribes, some tribes like the Kuna even worshipped albino children believing they had magic powers.

kuna-albino-panama.jpg


Its not that far-fetched to assume a whole tribe being effected by it
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native americans in the southwest have tales of giants with red hair up to 7 feet tall. Their description is identical to europeans, mainly the vikings, but the timelines do not match viking entrance here. They have found remains of european like people all over this country, long before the vikings supposedly came here.

This likely might mean that europeans settled here long before even the vikings.
 
Casper said:
So did the Norse and some believe people from the Spain and Portugal area made it to South America long ago do to genetics links with specific tribes there. The reason Columbus's voyage was most important is because it led to a wave of conquest and settlement. So who got here first does not matter, who's discovery had the most impact is what counts.
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I disagree, I think we should see history as we do science; something that is constantly evolving as our understanding of the past improves.

I'm not saying that we should discontinue Columbus day or anything. But we should continue to grow in our understanding of what really happened.
 
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