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Sorry Anti-Choicers - SCOTUS is wrong.

Really, seems like I'm living in most of your heads, by simply SUGGESTING that a baby's right to life is more important than a woman's ability to act irresponsibly.
Yes, really. After all, you're posting on a debate forum. If all you can intellectually muster is a SUGGESTION, may I suggest purchasing and affixing a relevant bumper sticker to your car. (or wheelchair)
 
Yes, really. After all, you're posting on a debate forum. If all you can intellectually muster is a SUGGESTION, may I suggest purchasing and affixing a relevant bumper sticker to your car. (or wheelchair)

I've already made my position pretty clear.

Roe was a flawed ruling because it didn't address the issue of human life, and it found a fanciful right to privacy that doesn't exist..

While I detest abortion, I think outlawing it is impractical. Prohibition was impractical, but the country still gave it the old college try for a decade. The war on drugs is impractical, yet it still goes on. Prostitution laws are impractical, but they are the law in 49 states.

It doesn't mean that I can't show my disgust for people who think dismembering a baby is a morally acceptable form of contraception. Just like I have contempt for dopers, drunks, and hookers.

I also believe that we should do a lot more to prevent the need for abortion - Universal Health Care, Paid family leave, extensive sex education, access to contraception.

But there's no rational discussion with people who have either had or facilitated abortions, and want to feel better about themselves.
 
I've already made my position pretty clear.

Roe was a flawed ruling because it didn't address the issue of human life, and it found a fanciful right to privacy that doesn't exist..

While I detest abortion, I think outlawing it is impractical. Prohibition was impractical, but the country still gave it the old college try for a decade. The war on drugs is impractical, yet it still goes on. Prostitution laws are impractical, but they are the law in 49 states.

It doesn't mean that I can't show my disgust for people who think dismembering a baby is a morally acceptable form of contraception. Just like I have contempt for dopers, drunks, and hookers.

I also believe that we should do a lot more to prevent the need for abortion - Universal Health Care, Paid family leave, extensive sex education, access to contraception.

But there's no rational discussion with people who have either had or facilitated abortions, and want to feel better about themselves.
What you've expressed here is your every right to personally choose to challenge abortion. Which is fine.
Where you err is in "suggesting" the volition of those that disagree with you must be restricted (by law). That transcends a mere level of suggestion and requires a counter-challenge.

As such. You're coming off cowardly and appearing intellectually disingenuous.
 
There's arguments for and against. Does this hold any significance to the abortion debate for you?

Absolutely, since the basis for the alleged (nationwide?) abortion ‘right’ was based on some (non-enumerated) 9A/14A (personal) privacy right. Oddly, in both the Roe and Casey rulings, this abortion (privacy) ‘right’ was limited based on the level of fetal development.
 
Absolutely, since the basis for the alleged (nationwide?) abortion ‘right’ was based on some (non-enumerated) 9A/14A (personal) privacy right. Oddly, in both the Roe and Casey rulings, this abortion (privacy) ‘right’ was limited based on the level of fetal development.
Arguing bodily autonomy and relevant legal precedents would be a mire effective Argument. Regardless, there is no rational or legal basis for abortion restrictions anyway. Such laws are more emotionally driven than anything.
 
Absolutely, since the basis for the alleged (nationwide?) abortion ‘right’ was based on some (non-enumerated) 9A/14A (personal) privacy right. Oddly, in both the Roe and Casey rulings, this abortion (privacy) ‘right’ was limited based on the level of fetal development.
Yes. It was ruled at the development point of viability the state had a "compelling interest" in the unborn.

Not seeing any parallel here?
 
Yes. It was ruled at the development point of viability the state had a "compelling interest" in the unborn.

Based purely on SCOTUS opinion, which changed between Roe and Casey. That was clearly law making by the SCOTUS.

Not seeing any parallel here?
 
Based purely on SCOTUS opinion, which changed between Roe and Casey. That was clearly law making by the SCOTUS.
The laws were still in effect. They were simply interpreted tpo establish when they can be in effect. Thats not making up a new law.
 
Elective abortions are slowly becoming illegal because you overplayed your hand and dismissed the moral concerns of half the country.

That map doesnt show that :rolleyes: But if you want to cite where more states are going with more restrictions...let's see it...quoted.

You just grabbed it so you could avoid directly refuting what I wrote. Lame and just more wishful thinking on your part.
 
That's a pretty dumb argument. A dog doesn't look like a baby. A fetus most certainly does.

Huge fail! LMAO, the early stages of both, unborn, look very similar :LOL::LOL:

And aside from your unintentional fumble there, you make our point...people can call whatever they want "baby" but that doesnt make those things "babies". People call their wives/husbands, girlfriends/boyfriends, cars, pets, boats, etc etc etc "baby." Are any of those babies? ;)

Keep on keepin' on...failing (y)
 
Yes, really. After all, you're posting on a debate forum. If all you can intellectually muster is a SUGGESTION, may I suggest purchasing and affixing a relevant bumper sticker to your car. (or wheelchair)

Yeah...he 'suggests" it but he has no argument to articulate why it's wrong or why women shouldnt have abortions. He types a lot tho.
 
Roe was a flawed ruling because it didn't address the issue of human life, and it found a fanciful right to privacy that doesn't exist..

Dobbs doesnt address the issue of human life anymore than RvW did. Except that it clarifies that the unborn have no federal legal status that states are obligated to protect. None. Dobbs enables states to allow women/their doctors to kill their unborn with no due process.

You can pretend all you want that you think Dobbs is some great improvement over RvW but true anti-abortites dont really believe that "murdering babies is a states' rights issue." Right? If they're babies, how can states allow their murder?
 
I've already made my position pretty clear.

It doesn't mean that I can't show my disgust for people who think dismembering a baby is a morally acceptable form of contraception. Just like I have contempt for dopers, drunks, and hookers.

You're proud that your position is based on a self-righteous emotionally-manipulative lie? Weird. Not only that, you know it's a lie and keep posting it in bad faith. It's a joke that you pretend you hold some moral High Ground on this issue.

And also, any abortions that take place late enough (about 2%) for the unborn to feel pain, doctors are required to administer a lethal dose of anesthetic before any removal process so there is no pain.
Why should a dead fetus not be dismembered if it's big enough to internally damage the woman on removal? It receives a lethal injection of anesthetic first, so it feels nothing. You seem to prefer she endure additional pain and harm. Why?

It's just another demonstration of how unchristian or just plain inhumane your views are
...who cares about the harm to the woman? :( And since almost all such late abortions would be medically necessary, we're talking about a woman/couple that wanted to have a baby. You'd punish her further, grieving the loss, anyway. Disgusting.

Lordy, keep posting. Your posts become more and more monstrous as we go on. Like blaming kids waiting to be adopted for being born. 😧

We can keep going in circles. 🤷 The more we do, the more inhumane and amoral your posts become as you desperately try to justify your views without even knowing why abortion is wrong. Clearly, understanding morality is not your strong point.

Let us know when you can explain WHY abortion is wrong.;)
 
Absolutely, since the basis for the alleged (nationwide?) abortion ‘right’ was based on some (non-enumerated) 9A/14A (personal) privacy right. Oddly, in both the Roe and Casey rulings, this abortion (privacy) ‘right’ was limited based on the level of fetal development.

No, you've been reminded of this before. Just like now under Dobbs, states had the option of implementing some restrictions after fetal viability.

States still have that option under Dobbs.
 
Wow, so much whining that I don't fully endorse your lack of responsibility.
Says the one whining about perceived irresponsibility and "babies" being killed 😆
Actually, it's the issue that the Courts have avoided for 50 years, but at some point, they'll have to.
Nope. Life is a scientific issue, not a legal one. In law, personhood is the issue, of which the unborn are not.
This isn't about Trump, who really doesn't spend a lot of time talking about abortion, anyway. It's probably why he won, because there was a nudge, nudge, wink, wink that he'd appoint anti-choice judges.

It's why so many Christians voted for him even after Granny keeled over from Covid
As i said before, people are stupid and irrational.
Really, seems like I'm living in most of your heads, by simply SUGGESTING that a baby's right to life is more important than a woman's ability to act irresponsibly.
Where is this so called "right" enumerated?
That's a pretty dumb argument. A dog doesn't look like a baby. A fetus most certainly does.
a fetus is still neither a baby or a person.
Elective abortions are slowly becoming illegal because you overplayed your hand and dismissed the moral concerns of half the country.

View attachment 67573845
Abortion is still allowed and performed in most of the country. People's moral qualms is their own.
 
That's a pretty dumb argument. A dog doesn't look like a baby. A fetus most certainly does.
My brother in Christ... not only did you completely miss the point of the argument but now your basically saying looking like a baby is an argument. You're wrong on this since they pretty much do look like a baby in the early stages. No parent would walk around saying "I have a fetus growing in my stomach!" even if they believed babies and fetuses are the same or not. And no part of this proves personhood or what makes a "person" objectively.
 
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Seems like that's what you guys do when you use terms like "Embyro" or "Fetus".

Accusing people of accuracy and intelligence as a means to show they are wrong? LOL. That is a new tactic.


.
 
Killing a baby is never responsible.

Using birth control is responsible.
Putting it up for adoption is responsible.
Making sure he's a decent man before you spread your legs is responsible.

Happy to have cleared that up for you.

How is your question to control women and treat them as second-class citizens going?


,
 
My brother in Christ...

Do you mean Step-Brother?

not only did you completely miss the point of the argument but now your basically saying looking like a baby is an argument. You're wrong on this since they pretty much do look like a baby in the early stages. No parent would walk around saying "I have a fetus growing in my stomach!" even if they believed babies and fetuses are the same or not. And no part of this proves personhood or what makes a "person" objectively.
 
What you've expressed here is your every right to personally choose to challenge abortion. Which is fine.
Where you err is in "suggesting" the volition of those that disagree with you must be restricted (by law). That transcends a mere level of suggestion and requires a counter-challenge.

As such. You're coming off cowardly and appearing intellectually disingenuous.

Yawn, sophistry doesn't interest me.

Nope. Life is a scientific issue, not a legal one. In law, personhood is the issue, of which the unborn are not.

Until they are... Six Catholic Justices... you guys are so screwed.

My brother in Christ... not only did you completely miss the point of the argument but now your basically saying looking like a baby is an argument. You're wrong on this since they pretty much do look like a baby in the early stages. No parent would walk around saying "I have a fetus growing in my stomach!" even if they believed babies and fetuses are the same or not. And no part of this proves personhood or what makes a "person" objectively.

I agree. We need the courts to rule on this issue of personhood, with a better answer than, "Five seconds before the Umbilical chord is cut."

How is your question to control women and treat them as second-class citizens going?

Pretty well, if that was my goal. Roe is gone. All this DEI nonsense is being rolled back. As much as I despise Trump, if I were a misogynist, I'd be in hog heaven right now.
 
I agree. We need the courts to rule on this issue of personhood, with a better answer than, "Five seconds before the Umbilical chord is cut."

I've asked you this many times and you didnt answer...why would Congress or SCOTUS choose to support fetal personhood?

Both have clearly and intentionally avoided it for decades. Please explain why you believe they would want to do so?
 
Says the one whining about perceived irresponsibility and "babies" being killed 😆

Nope. Life is a scientific issue, not a legal one. In law, personhood is the issue, of which the unborn are not.

As i said before, people are stupid and irrational.

Where is this so called "right" enumerated?

a fetus is still neither a baby or a person.

Abortion is still allowed and performed in most of the country. People's moral qualms is their own.

He seems to forget that the Constitution currently does not recognize the unborn as persons or recognize any rights for them. So it's up to Congress, not SCOTUS. SCOTUS cant change the Const. Otherwise, the Dobbs bench probably would have tried. Instead, they didnt TOUCH it. Just like RvW's bench didnt.

So he has a dream! :D But zero foundation in reality to explain why Congress would seek out and create a fetal personhood amendment, which must be approved by two-thirds of both houses of Congress, or by a constitutional convention called by two-thirds of the state legislatures, and then ratified by three-fourths of the states. Definitely not happening. ;)
 
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