Sorry Anti-Choicers - SCOTUS is wrong.

[Gordy327]

Yawn, sophistry doesn't interest me.

Neither do facts and reason apparently.

Until they are... Six Catholic Justices... you guys are so screwed.

But there's not and you're offering conjecture at best.

I agree. We need the courts to rule on this issue of personhood, with a better answer than, "Five seconds before the Umbilical chord is cut."

The umbilical cord is cut post birth, when a neonate is then a person. Some states courts have ruled on the issue and struck down attempts at fetal personhood, which affirms and coincides with the Constitution and federal law.

if I were a misogynist,

Which is what some of your posts exude!

 

[Gordy327]

He seems to forget that the Constitution currently does not recognize the unborn as persons or recognize any rights for them.

So it's up to Congress, not SCOTUS. SCOTUS cant change the Const. Otherwise, the Dobbs bench probably would have tried. Instead, they didnt TOUCH it. Just like RvW's bench didnt.

Thats been explained ad nauseum at this point.

So he has a dream!

More like a delusion. After all, he seems to think a ZEF is a "baby."

But zero foundation in reality to explain why Congress would seek out and create a fetal personhood amendment, which must be approved by two-thirds of both houses of Congress, or by a constitutional convention called by two-thirds of the state legislatures, and then ratified by three-fourths of the states. Definitely not happening.

And still no explanation given as to why abortion is wrong or why it should be restricted either.

 

[Bodi]

Pretty well, if that was my goal. Roe is gone. All this DEI nonsense is being rolled back. As much as I despise Trump, if I were a misogynist, I'd be in hog heaven right now.

So how is Hog Heaven at the moment?



.

 

[JoeB131]

So how is Hog Heaven at the moment?



.

Wouldn't know, but frankly, judging by the wingnuts on USMB, I'd say they are pretty happy.

I'm not. I think Trump is doing real damage.

But as long as people like you keep scaring off the White Middle Class, I suspect we will end up with Vance followed by Don Jr.

 

[quip]

Yawn, sophistry doesn't interest me.

You're coming off cowardly and appearing intellectually disingenuous.

True to form.

 

[JoeB131]

True to form.

Sophistry is all you guys have, isn't it? And whining emotionalism about rape and wearing silly costumes from A Handmaid's Tale.

Abortion kills babies. At least be honest about that part.

 

[quip]

That's a pretty dumb argument. A dog doesn't look like a baby. A fetus most certainly does.

Which one "most certainly" looks like the baby, Joe?

 

[JoeB131]

View attachment 67574014

Which one "most certainly" looks like the baby, Joe?

Check the DNA, we can tell which one is human.

Come on, guy, an 8-week fetus looks like this.

 

[Gordy327]

Sophistry is all you guys have, isn't it? And whining emotionalism about rape and wearing silly costumes from A Handmaid's Tale.

Abortion kills babies. At least be honest about that part.

You're the one being dishonest! Especially since there are no babies in an abortion. But then, the dishonesty in your posts have been exposed and called out for all to see.

Check the DNA, we can tell which one is human.

Come on, guy, an 8-week fetus looks like this.

View attachment 67574016

Looks more like a piece of uncooked shrimp. Regardless, whats your point?

 

[JoeB131]

Looks more like a piece of uncooked shrimp. Regardless, whats your point?

If I was served a shrimp with arms and legs and a big old head, I think I'd have a word with the waiter. I suppose it wouldn't bother this woman after the third glass of wine.



"Where's my fetus-Burger, dammit!!!"

 

[Gordy327]

If I was served a shrimp with arms and legs and a big old head, I think I'd have a word with the waiter.

Twhose can be served on the side. Mmmm, fried fetal fritters.

I suppose it wouldn't bother this woman after the third glass of wine.

View attachment 67574017

"Where's my fetus-Burger, dammit!!!"

Tastes like chicken.

 

[quip]

Check the DNA, we can tell which one is human.

Come on, guy, an 8-week fetus looks like this.

View attachment 67574016

Does this most definitely look like a fetus to you? I think we can all agree here ...'fetus' being the appropriately, accurate term.

 

[JoeB131]

Does this most definitely look like a fetus to you? I think we can all agree here ...'fetus' being the appropriately, accurate term.

Actually, it looks like a small person to me.

It doesn't look like a dog.

 

[quip]

Actually, it looks like a small person to me.

It doesn't look like a dog.

You just used the word fetus to describe a.....fetus, twice.

 

[_.sokoa]

I agree. We need the courts to rule on this issue of personhood

So why are you still arguing? You agreeing on this would go against basically everything you have been saying in the thread thus far.

with a better answer than, "Five seconds before the Umbilical chord is cut."

I don't know about this one chief, I don't think a single person is saying that.

 

[JoeB131]

So why are you still arguing? You agreeing on this would go against basically everything you have been saying in the thread thus far.

Um, I don't think you are even close to understanding my argument.

I don't know about this one chief, I don't think a single person is saying that.

Read some of the posts by your fellow Pro-abort fanatics. They are perfectly fine with aborting a healthy fetus in the eighth month.

 

[_.sokoa]

Um, I don't think you are even close to understanding my argument.

I understood it just fine. You were in the thread talking as if fetal personhood was obvious and that abortion is murder, then you turned around and said that we need courts to rule on personhood.

Read some of the posts by your fellow Pro-abort fanatics. They are perfectly fine with aborting a healthy fetus in the eighth month.

Cool, now show me one, just one, mainstream argument where someone seriously would defend 8-month elective abortions for no reason. And bringing up 8-month abortions would hurt your own point if you're saying personhood is obvious because courts and doctors already treat those cases as deeply medically and ethically complex. Either way all you're really doing is just cherry picking the most extreme, rare outlier scenarios and using them to define the entire moral debate

 

[Lursa]

Sophistry is all you guys have, isn't it? And whining emotionalism about rape and wearing silly costumes from A Handmaid's Tale.

Misogyny "is all you have, isnt it?" It's hypocritical for you to accuse emotionalism when you cant even articulate any reason why abortion is wrong, except your feelings. Dont bother lying that you have...we all know better. The fact that you keep claiming abortion kills babies is clear proof of that. You cant even frame the basics accurately, you are emotionally invested in imagining "babies" inside strangers. It's creepy too, btw.

Abortion kills babies. At least be honest about that part.

Huge fail! LMAO, the early stages of both, unborn, look very similar

THE TRUTH
And aside from your unintentional fumble there, you make our point...people can call whatever they want "baby" but that doesnt make those things "babies". People call their wives/husbands, girlfriends/boyfriends, cars, pets, boats, etc etc etc "baby." Are any of those babies?

Keep on keepin' on...failing

 

[Lursa]

Does this most definitely look like a fetus to you? I think we can all agree here ...'fetus' being the appropriately, accurate term.

He had to move the goal posts to DNA instead of resemblance. Guess what, our dog and car and boat "babies" dont have human DNA either

 

[Lursa]

I understood it just fine. You were in the thread talking as if fetal personhood was obvious and that abortion is murder, then you turned around and said that we need courts to rule on personhood.

Cool, now show me one, just one, mainstream argument where someone seriously would defend 8-month elective abortions for no reason. And bringing up 8-month abortions would hurt your own point if you're saying personhood is obvious because courts and doctors already treat those cases as deeply medically and ethically complex. Either way all you're really doing is just cherry picking the most extreme, rare outlier scenarios and using them to define the entire moral debate

It's just another emotionally-manipulative lie. Again, he has nothing but his feelings to go on, no facts. The facts are that women do not abort healthy, viable fetuses for non-medical reasons. He cannot and has not cited it happening, period. It doesnt happen...all of Canada and several states have no such restrictions and still...women dont do it.

So the position isnt that it's fine to do something...it's that there's no reason to have useless, "feel-good" laws for things that dont happen. That's not even rational...it's just emotional manipulation.

 

[Lursa]

I understood it just fine. You were in the thread talking as if fetal personhood was obvious and that abortion is murder, then you turned around and said that we need courts to rule on personhood.

Cool, now show me one, just one, mainstream argument where someone seriously would defend 8-month elective abortions for no reason. And bringing up 8-month abortions would hurt your own point if you're saying personhood is obvious because courts and doctors already treat those cases as deeply medically and ethically complex. Either way all you're really doing is just cherry picking the most extreme, rare outlier scenarios and using them to define the entire moral debate

As an aside, it's an incredibly misogynistic claim for anti-abortionists to make. It's incredibly disrespectful to women to assume we just wait around for 8 months and then decide we dont want a kid. It makes no sense...it's just a way to minimize, disparage women's characters.

First, there are very good reasons why women dont abort healthy, viable fetuses:

--why suffer thru 8 months of sickness, exhaustion, system failures, lost work time, etc?​

--they are ~10x more expensive (ex. $600 vs $6000​

--they are more dangerous and painful than labor (the body has not started to transition to birth, such as the cervix dilating, etc)​

--the woman can get ~$10,000 to $30,000 for the baby in a legal, private adoption​

Second, it's cruel. If a woman needs an abortion for medical reasons at that point, why should there be legal investigation, legal hoops for her to jump thru? At that late date, this is a pregnancy the woman/couple wanted and they will be grieving a loss. It would only cause them more pain and suffering to go thru delays or legal intrusions. Not only that, many women take the risks to their own lives to still try and maintain the fetus until birth.

So his baseless assumptions about women are pretty appalling. He refuses to even acknowledge this...just keeps lying as if he doesnt know all this.

 

[JoeB131]

Cool, now show me one, just one, mainstream argument where someone seriously would defend 8-month elective abortions for no reason. And bringing up 8-month abortions would hurt your own point if you're saying personhood is obvious because courts and doctors already treat those cases as deeply medically and ethically complex. Either way all you're really doing is just cherry picking the most extreme, rare outlier scenarios and using them to define the entire moral debate

Okay, Late Trimester abortions are outliers.
So are cases of Rape, but man, the pro-Abortion side will scream about that until the cows come home.

It's hypocritical for you to accuse emotionalism when you cant even articulate any reason why abortion is wrong,

Sure I have. You just don't want to hear it, for whatever personal reasons you have.

 

[JoeB131]

As an aside, it's an incredibly misogynistic claim for anti-abortionists to make. It's incredibly disrespectful to women to assume we just wait around for 8 months and then decide we dont want a kid. It makes no sense...it's just a way to minimize, disparage women's characters.

Yet you want it to be legal for her to do that, if that's her choice.

Maybe she found out her husband was cheating and wanted to get revenge on him by destroying a baby he wanted. It's a tale as old as Medea.

First, there are very good reasons why women dont abort healthy, viable fetuses:
--why suffer thru 8 months of sickness, exhaustion, system failures, lost work time, etc?--they are ~10x more expensive (ex. $600 vs $6000--they are more dangerous and painful than labor (the body has not started to transition to birth, such as the cervix dilating, etc)--the woman can get ~$10,000 to $30,000 for the baby in a legal, private adoption

Isn't it illegal to sell a baby?

Second, it's cruel. If a woman needs an abortion for medical reasons at that point, why should there be legal investigation, legal hoops for her to jump thru? At that late date, this is a pregnancy the woman/couple wanted and they will be grieving a loss. It would only cause them more pain and suffering to go thru delays or legal intrusions. Not only that, many women take the risks to their own lives to still try and maintain the fetus until birth.

Shouldn't take more than five minutes to figure out if it's necessary or not if the Doctor did his job right. Argument Fail.

So his baseless assumptions about women are pretty appalling. He refuses to even acknowledge this...just keeps lying as if he doesnt know all this.

Why is it baseless? Women (and men) are a combination of good and bad, dumb and smart and are capable of doing anything. Why do so many women smother their own newborns after going through all the pain you just described?

 

[Lursa]

Okay, Late Trimester abortions are outliers.
So are cases of Rape, but man, the pro-Abortion side will scream about that until the cows come home.

Some do, I dont. All I do is point out the hypocrisy when anti-abortites say they accept "killing a baby in cases of rape or incest." Is it a baby or not? Is it murder or not?

It's just a BS excuse most anti's hide behind, an admission that it's not about protecting "babies", it's about punishing women. Because rape/incest isnt the woman's fault...but if she "opens her legs" then she should be punished...with a child apparently. Dehumanizing, using the kid to punish women. And that's you all 100%.

Your illogic is such that you blame so many of society's ills on single mothers, and then want to deny these "irresponsible" women abortions so that they have to become single mothers

Sure I have. You just don't want to hear it, for whatever personal reasons you have.

You can keep lying about it. There's no "why" just "killing babies bad"

 

[Lursa]

Yet you want it to be legal for her to do that, if that's her choice.

It's not ever their choice.

I dont worry about laws to prevent people from riding unicorns either.

Maybe she found out her husband was cheating and wanted to get revenge on him by destroying a baby he wanted. It's a tale as old as Medea.

That late? I call BS but thanks for 100% reinforcing exactly what I wrote: Pure misogny. Great...let's see the data for that happening at 8 months.

Isn't it illegal to sell a baby?

Maybe you should google and find out about private adoptions. Now you just look like you need to divert and hide.

Shouldn't take more than five minutes to figure out if it's necessary or not if the Doctor did his job right. Argument Fail.

Really? It's not a fail if the couple have to deal with police at all. THat's ALWAYS stressful. And the doctor would be investigated and it may delay the procedure...adding more pain and suffering. Again, your posts get more monstrous every page.

Create a useless law that will only cause pain and more grief...you're right, you're not a Christian. I must have read that from another poster.

Why is it baseless? Women (and men) are a combination of good and bad, dumb and smart and are capable of doing anything. Why do so many women smother their own newborns after going through all the pain you just described?

Mental illness called post-partum depression. Gee, should we send a nurse monitor home with every woman to make sure she doesnt smother her infant? No? Why not? Doesnt every single baby count? Need to be protected?

So then dont bullshit me with that when you cant even show that women abort healthy, viable fetuses except for medical reasons.

It's baseless unless you can show the data. How many? Let's see it.