• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Solar Power

Superfly

Salty, defiant, and completely non-compliant.
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
61,835
Reaction score
52,077
Location
From Tucson to Tucumcari, Tehachapi to Tonopah
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?
 
I love the idea- I hate the expense. That being said, from what I understand, costs of installing solar are coming down to more affordable range, so that is excellent. As for your question, AC uses a LOT of power. Solar is bulky and large compared to the amount of energy generated, so the small one you're referring to won't be nearly enough, unless some great innovations have occurred in solar that I am unaware of. I do encourage you to check it out thoroughly. I know that a few years ago, there were tax incentives for installing solar, so that may be a positive consideration.
 
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?

What have you done, to date, to lower your utility costs?

Jus' wonderin'

Thom Paine
 
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?

You would need a semi truck full of panels to power your AC. Drill baby drill.
 
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?

Oh well...

So I'm guessing you want a small one that's like, less than, say, 20 pounds. One that you can grab and move to wherever you want. Sure, you can get that. It would be lovely because you'd be able to maximize your gains if you babysit it. Georgia gets about 4.5h of sunlight per day as an average per year. So that's how you should make back of the envelope calculations.

What you need to understand is that to get a small one is going to be... bad for you if you don't make a proper easy-to-handle setup. To feed your air conditioner, which currently feeds itself from the house grid, to make that solar panel work for you you'll have to connect it to your home grid. Which is a hassle. Now if it's small and you wanna move it around, you're kinda limited because it has a cable that is attached to it that goes into your house. Moreover, the cable in fact, is not directly tied to your solar panel. It's tied to something called an inverter. For small solar panels, you can buy something called a "micro-inverter". So the connection is like this:
House - inverter - solar panel. Why do you need an inverter and what does it do?

The energy we use is alternative current. Solar panels produce direct current. The inverter makes that transformation. However, expect to lose anywhere between 10-20% of energy at that transformation. So if you were to get 100W per h, you would really just get 80-90W per hour. Now ofc, you won't get this much because small ones don't give you this much.

Now when you will shop for a solar panel you need to look at watts. As in, how many watts does a solar panel produce per hour. It's important to get the per hour watts production because otherwise you won't be able to make proper calculations. What to look for? Watts. If a solar panel tells you that it produces 80 watts or 55 watts, that is per hour. A good solar panel will produce around 100 watts per hour. So that means with 4.5h a day that Georgia gets, you can at best hope for 450 watts per day. Ofc, in the summer, you're gonna get more. Now a typical house in the western world consumes anywhere between 600-800watts per hour. Which means that your entire daily intake of energy from a solar panel that produces 100 watts will get you less than 1h worth of consumption. Add to that the 10% or 20% loss, and you get even less.


Ok. Let's look at it another way and this will make it clear for you.

An air conditioner unit will eat about 50-60 watts an hour.
So therefore, you need to get a solar panel that does 50-60watts and hour +20%. =>
=> You need a solar panel who tells you it does at least 72 watts.
So therefore, you need 1 solar panel that produces 75 watts per hour to account for the same hour you use an air conditioner.

An average 75 watts solar panel will cost you over 150$. An inverter... probably 100-200$.

Hope this helped. I had to do a bit of research that's why it took me so long.
And again, don't forget about the hassle if you plan on moving the small solar panel (should not be heavier than 20 pounds, a solar panel that make that much power) because it always has to be connected to the inverter.
 
Last edited:
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?


No actually it takes quite a lot of solar gear to run a house. I have a couple panels, but I have a buddy who runs his whole house off solar. He's got literally dozens of large panels and a large battery bank.

Your AC (or heat pump, whichever) unit pulls some heavy current. Even the smaller ones are generally 10-20 amp at 110-120vac, which translates to 1100-2400 watts continuous.

That would translate to at least eleven 100-watt panels, and if you wanted to run the AC at night off solar you'd need more panels plus a battery bank with charge controller... oh and you'll need a heavy-duty inverter regardless, since solar is DC and your air conditioner is alternating current. I haven't priced panels and batts lately but we're probably talking at least 2 grand here, maybe 3-4.
 
That would translate to at least eleven 100-watt panels, and if you wanted to run the AC at night off solar you'd need more panels plus a battery bank with charge controller... oh and you'll need a heavy-duty inverter regardless, since solar is DC and your air conditioner is alternating current. I haven't priced panels and batts lately but we're probably talking at least 2 grand here, maybe 3-4.

That's better than I would have expected. Last time I checked, it was going to be in the neighborhood of 50-75 thousand to do my house. I would never recover the investment in that case, so I never bothered to check into it further.
 
That's better than I would have expected. Last time I checked, it was going to be in the neighborhood of 50-75 thousand to do my house. I would never recover the investment in that case, so I never bothered to check into it further.

Yeah but that's just to run one smallish window-type AC unit. :)
 
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?

I know a lot about solar power, and it is just not economically viable.... Yes solar power is useful when you live off the gird but in an urban or suburban setting it is uslsess.
 
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?

As someone asked already, what is the latest with your electricity situation? Last I remember reading you were going to have a electrician come look why you had such a high electric bill compared to your neighbors. I live in Georgia too in an area that must have the same weather as you (except I know you are closer to the coast) and I have high electric bills too--mostly because of the high cost of running an air conditioner, so I am always interested in reducing my electric bill too.
 
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?
To power a central AC system, day and night, you'd be spending 10 thousand pretty easy.

You could probably power an entire moderate-sized house, day and night when you've got good sun in the day, for about $10-$15K if you DIY and get discounted parts (and assuming the house makes maximum use of natural gas). Full retail on a pro installation would probably be near double that. BUT -- it will not have the capacity to run a central AC system full time; you'd have to bump it up about another 50% to cover that (very rough numbers), about another 40% in cost.

Generally speaking, when I've run rough DIY (Do It Yourself) numbers before, it would take about 15-20 years for a solar system to pay for itself (less if electric rates are high); but after that you would be scott-free on electricity. It basically boils down into how long you plan to live in the same home, and if you can afford the up-front cost (and if your homeowner's insurance will cover the system).

You might look at cheaper alternatives to make your home more energy efficient, altho some of those can get expensive too. Considering your AC use, vent the attic, go to double pane windows if you have singles, maybe get a more efficient compressor if yours is over 15 yrs old, special paint if the home is brick or stone (that soaks up a tone of heat and keeps the home from cooling after sundown), etc.
 
special paint if the home is brick or stone (that soaks up a tone of heat and keeps the home from cooling after sundown), etc.

Is that special paint clear? That would be the only way I would paint my bricks on my house.
 
Anybody know anything about solar power?

Anybody who has listened to me whine for the last 2 years knows that I am paying a huge amount in my electric bill. I saw a free-standing solar power unit yesterday, the size of a cereal box. I'm not sure what it is powering, but it made me wonder --

Can I get just a handful of those and run them straight to my central heat and air unit? I live in south Georgia on the coast, and we have strong, direct sunlight almost every day. That would be ideal for powering my AC unit, but I don't want to pay a fortune for the panels in my roof. I was told it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to do the panels in the roof.

What about just smaller ones though? Not to power the whole house, but just the AC unit?

Where I live, we have 300+ days of blistering sunlight, I want to put an array on my roof...but first, I need a new roof....$$

Great article in the NYT today about how the power companies are freaking out over solar and wind, and what Germany has been doing, now 30% powered by wind and solar. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/science/earth/sun-and-wind-alter-german-landscape-leaving-utilities-behind.html?ref=world
 
To power a central AC system, day and night, you'd be spending 10 thousand pretty easy.

You could probably power an entire moderate-sized house, day and night when you've got good sun in the day, for about $10-$15K if you DIY and get discounted parts (and assuming the house makes maximum use of natural gas). Full retail on a pro installation would probably be near double that. BUT -- it will not have the capacity to run a central AC system full time; you'd have to bump it up about another 50% to cover that (very rough numbers), about another 40% in cost.

Here in California, solar is big business. I think, on my way to school every day,and on my way home, I am hearing easily half a dozen ads on the radio from different companies trying to sell solar energy systems to homeowners. From one such ad, I get that an average solar system from them costs about $13,000 total. I have to wonder if that solar system includes all eight planets, as well as Pluto (which is no longer considered a planet), all the asteroids, dwarf planets, Kuiper-belt objects, comets, and the Oort cloud. If so, then that's a pretty good deal, don't you think?
 
What have you done, to date, to lower your utility costs?

Jus' wonderin'

Thom Paine

Have had 2 audits by Georgia Power, and they can't find a problem. Have had 2 of the builder's electricians, and 1 independent electrician come in and tell me they couldn't find anything really wrong. We have raised our thermostat to 75 and are sweltering, for some reason. Heavy curtains on the windows. Lights turned off when we aren't in the room. Temp adjusted on the hot water heater. Fans running to circulate the cool air. We have done everything GA Power told us to do, and we are still having high bills.

On average, our bill in our house is $400 a month in the summer, and everybody else in my neighborhood averages $150 to $175. Same size house, same amount of people home during the day, same number of people living in the house, etc.
 
So I am getting differing prices here - anywhere from $500 to $10,000.

:( I could afford it on the lower end, but couldn't afford $10,000 for just enough to juice my AC.
 
Have had 2 audits by Georgia Power, and they can't find a problem. Have had 2 of the builder's electricians, and 1 independent electrician come in and tell me they couldn't find anything really wrong. We have raised our thermostat to 75 and are sweltering, for some reason. Heavy curtains on the windows. Lights turned off when we aren't in the room. Temp adjusted on the hot water heater. Fans running to circulate the cool air. We have done everything GA Power told us to do, and we are still having high bills.

On average, our bill in our house is $400 a month in the summer, and everybody else in my neighborhood averages $150 to $175. Same size house, same amount of people home during the day, same number of people living in the house, etc.
First, compare your monthly kilowatt-hour consumption to a neighbor with a similar home (for example, don't compare a one-story to a two-story. Apparently it will be twice as much consumption, but I'd compare just to confirm (would not be impossible for your meter to be screwy). Maybe ask them if they are on gas or electric for typical appliances (hot water heater, dryer, stove).

Second, start measuring the kWh usage of various appliances. I'd start with the AC. This is going to cost some money to buy a hardwire gauge and have an electrician install it (maybe they have inductive clamp on power meters these days; something to look into, but you'd still need an electrician to set it in place (probably have to open up some panels)). You could probably monitor for a typical week and extrapolate that to a month's usage. Then try the hot water heater (could be faulty and sucking juice all the time). Then the refrigerator (and separate freezer if you have one). You'll have to keep checking different things until you find the culprit.... could take a month or more. Keep written records, draw up a plan of attack -- a methodical approach should lead to an answer.
 
Have had 2 audits by Georgia Power, and they can't find a problem. Have had 2 of the builder's electricians, and 1 independent electrician come in and tell me they couldn't find anything really wrong. We have raised our thermostat to 75 and are sweltering, for some reason. Heavy curtains on the windows. Lights turned off when we aren't in the room. Temp adjusted on the hot water heater. Fans running to circulate the cool air. We have done everything GA Power told us to do, and we are still having high bills.

On average, our bill in our house is $400 a month in the summer, and everybody else in my neighborhood averages $150 to $175. Same size house, same amount of people home during the day, same number of people living in the house, etc.

First-How much insulation in the walls and ceiling?
Second-How many windows and the square footage and are they at least double pane?
Third-Motors draw big power, like your AC unit, wash machine, dryer (electric bad), dishwasher, water pump, etc.
Fourth-check to see if your water pump is running continuously.
Fifth-dehumidifier, does it have a motor?
I would expect you to have 2 or 3 motors of about two horsepower running 24 hours a day for that usage. Could a neighbor have tapped in and be running something. Do you have a ornamental garden pond with a fountain? How hot is the hot water heater set at. A hot water heater can use $100/mo electric if that is what you have and that would be at a low temperature setting like 110 Degrees. Regrigerators and freezers have motors and usually add twenty dollars a month per each. Make sure they are cycling on/off and off for significant periods of time unless the box is opened frequently. Is there a sump pump in a wet area?
End of story, that's all the leads I have. I have done a lot of this. Good luck.
 
To power a central AC system, day and night, you'd be spending 10 thousand pretty easy.

You could probably power an entire moderate-sized house, day and night when you've got good sun in the day, for about $10-$15K if you DIY and get discounted parts (and assuming the house makes maximum use of natural gas). Full retail on a pro installation would probably be near double that. BUT -- it will not have the capacity to run a central AC system full time; you'd have to bump it up about another 50% to cover that (very rough numbers), about another 40% in cost.

Generally speaking, when I've run rough DIY (Do It Yourself) numbers before, it would take about 15-20 years for a solar system to pay for itself (less if electric rates are high); but after that you would be scott-free on electricity. It basically boils down into how long you plan to live in the same home, and if you can afford the up-front cost (and if your homeowner's insurance will cover the system).

You might look at cheaper alternatives to make your home more energy efficient, altho some of those can get expensive too. Considering your AC use, vent the attic, go to double pane windows if you have singles, maybe get a more efficient compressor if yours is over 15 yrs old, special paint if the home is brick or stone (that soaks up a tone of heat and keeps the home from cooling after sundown), etc.

15-20 years is about the expected lifetime of a solar panel...
 
First, compare your monthly kilowatt-hour consumption to a neighbor with a similar home (for example, don't compare a one-story to a two-story. Apparently it will be twice as much consumption, but I'd compare just to confirm (would not be impossible for your meter to be screwy). Maybe ask them if they are on gas or electric for typical appliances (hot water heater, dryer, stove).

Second, start measuring the kWh usage of various appliances. I'd start with the AC. This is going to cost some money to buy a hardwire gauge and have an electrician install it (maybe they have inductive clamp on power meters these days; something to look into, but you'd still need an electrician to set it in place (probably have to open up some panels)). You could probably monitor for a typical week and extrapolate that to a month's usage. Then try the hot water heater (could be faulty and sucking juice all the time). Then the refrigerator (and separate freezer if you have one). You'll have to keep checking different things until you find the culprit.... could take a month or more. Keep written records, draw up a plan of attack -- a methodical approach should lead to an answer.

Thanks, Karl. We actually did all that the first year we started getting those utility bills. We had someone come out with that tool thing that measures the amperage of each item. Every came out normal. Everything. They were shaking their heads as they left our house.

We measured our kilowatt hour consumption to the other larger houses in the neighborhood. My house is in the top 5 largest houses here, so I checked with the other 4, as a good control group. We are using far more kw hours than they are. But no one knows why. No one can figure out where the extra usage is coming from.

Georgia Power once, for 2 nights in a row, ran charts on usage to see when our usage was the highest. At between 1 and 3am were the largest usages. They said that it looked like, from the usage, that the AC unit kicked on at the exact same time as the hot water heater. At that hour, nothing at all is going on. No appliances, no hot water heater, no AC kicking on. Nothing. So why is my usage spiking?

Nobody knows. They just keep taking our check every month. :(
 
15-20 years is about the expected lifetime of a solar panel...
Yeah, come to think of it that's about right. Well, that sucks. Other components should last longer (inverters indefinite, commericial ni-cad batteries can be rebuilt perhaps indefinitely) so maybe there still is some advantage beyond that date, but that is beginning to push it from a cost/benefit ratio (waiting 25 yrs for a payback is getting pretty far out there).
 
First-How much insulation in the walls and ceiling?
Not sure. Whatever is at code. The house is only 2 years old.

Second-How many windows and the square footage and are they at least double pane?
Total windows, if I am counting correctly, are 14 windows and a set of French Doors off the kitchen. SF is about 2,500 all in.

Third-Motors draw big power, like your AC unit, wash machine, dryer (electric bad), dishwasher, water pump, etc.
Brand new energy efficient front loading washer and dryer. I donated my old set about 5 months ago, right before our bills started doubling, and got the new set, hoping that might help lower the bills. We don't have a water pump that I am aware of, and the dishwasher is brand new also. All of our appliances are new, and energy efficient.

Fourth-check to see if your water pump is running continuously.
I don't think I have one. I am on city water and sewage.
Fifth-dehumidifier, does it have a motor?

Don't have one.

I would expect you to have 2 or 3 motors of about two horsepower running 24 hours a day for that usage. Could a neighbor have tapped in and be running something.
No, we, and Georgia Power, checked that first, because that's what it sounded like. Double usage? Sounds like theft to me. But it wasn't.

Do you have a ornamental garden pond with a fountain?
No.

How hot is the hot water heater set at. A hot water heater can use $100/mo electric if that is what you have and that would be at a low temperature setting like 110 Degrees.

I am not sure what the temp is right now. I love hot showers, so it used to be hot enough to sting, and turn my skin pink. Then Georgia Power told us that that could be costing us, because the hot water heater has to keep the water hotter. So we turned it down to where my showers are lukewarm. :(

Regrigerators and freezers have motors and usually add twenty dollars a month per each. Make sure they are cycling on/off and off for significant periods of time unless the box is opened frequently.

We have an open floor plan, so I don't hear anything "off" going on in the kitchen.

Is there a sump pump in a wet area?

No, we live right at sea level, so we don't have basements.

End of story, that's all the leads I have. I have done a lot of this. Good luck.

Thanks - I appreciate it. Hope my answers give you some ideas.
 
Thanks, Karl. We actually did all that the first year we started getting those utility bills. We had someone come out with that tool thing that measures the amperage of each item. Every came out normal. Everything. They were shaking their heads as they left our house.

We measured our kilowatt hour consumption to the other larger houses in the neighborhood. My house is in the top 5 largest houses here, so I checked with the other 4, as a good control group. We are using far more kw hours than they are. But no one knows why. No one can figure out where the extra usage is coming from.

Georgia Power once, for 2 nights in a row, ran charts on usage to see when our usage was the highest. At between 1 and 3am were the largest usages. They said that it looked like, from the usage, that the AC unit kicked on at the exact same time as the hot water heater. At that hour, nothing at all is going on. No appliances, no hot water heater, no AC kicking on. Nothing. So why is my usage spiking?

Nobody knows. They just keep taking our check every month. :(
Helluva mystery. Move :(

On a slightly more serious note, I'd ask them to replace the meter. If that doesn't work, I'd ask them to replace the transformer on the pole. That 1-3AM thing is kinda fishy.
 
Back
Top Bottom