So, if Trump did have boxes and boxes of classified documents...

[Luce]

That's the usual Democrat allegations, on every GOP President since and including Dwight Eisenhower, maybe as far back as Hoover.

Who said anything bad about Ike? Please attempt to be more honest.

 

[Luce]

Not so, for the President.

He isn't the president.

 

[Cardinal]

Not so, for the President.

That doesn't address what I said. If he declassified the documents, they would have that marker on them.

 

[Rexedgar]

Unless the documents went through a declassification process and marked declassified, they were not declassified.

I can find no set procedure for a POTUS declassification of documents, something else the past administration hi-lighted that needs addressing.

 

[Rexedgar]

He isn't the president.

I think the argument is that Trump declassified whatever on the way out the door?

 

[Deuce]

Not so, for the President.

If they were not marked declassified, they were not declassified. Doesn't matter what Trump says happened.

 

[LouC]

Who here honestly believes he wouldn't sell them to *anyone* for the right price?

I have no doubt that perhaps one day we will indeed find that what the orange shit gibbon was about with all those documents was to sell what was in them outright or to use what was in them for some insider business profiting.

Did I just imagine it, or was their reporting about a "Persian Rug" seen in the mashup of what the FBI Agents were gathering in the search?

So too that would not surprise me because I also figure that if truth be told Donny and company were likely violating the rules, Constitutional regulation, regarding Presidents and their family members taking of gifts from foreign dignitaries!

Go ahead, scream HUNTER AND JOE BIDEN and the LAPTOP, you know you want to!

The alleged rifling of Melania's closet though I hope was to try and retrieve and destroy that horrid coat the horrid First Trophy Wife wore to the scene of hurricane disaster relief efforts in Texas when Donny was prez!

Someone needs to save those fools from themselves.

But seriously, First Trophy Wife Melania's closet(s) no doubt were just as likely to be locations for the squirreling away of Trump White House inappropriate and or outright illegal plunder as any other at Marred-A-Lago.

 

[Luce]

I think the argument is that Trump declassified whatever on the way out the door?

Then that will show up in the white house logs, won't it?

 

[mac]

He isn't the president.

He was, and could have declassified them then.

 

[Cardinal]

I can find no set procedure for a POTUS declassification of documents, something else the past administration hi-lighted that needs addressing.

You ask, I serve.

Expert Backgrounder: Criminal Statutes that Could Apply to Trump's Retention of Government Documents

Experts survey the possible crimes underlying search warrants executed at Mar-a-Lago.

www.justsecurity.org

"Strictly speaking, even if Trump ordered the declassification of the records (verbally or in writing), what is likely to matter for purposes of handling and storing the records after he left the White House was if the mandatory follow-on actions occurred. Classified documents have classification markings in the header and footer of each page, indicating the level of classification for the document as a whole. Furthermore, classified records have cover sheets that specifically indicate when the record was classified, by whom, and under what authority, as well as when the classification expires.

If Trump did in fact order the declassification, he still needed to make sure his staff took the necessary next steps to modify the classification markings on the documents before he could actually handle and store the records (as a private citizen) as if they were unclassified. Under security classification rules, a classification marking on a document has to be treated as valid and binding unless and until a subsequent marking replaces it. Appropriate government staffers would have needed to cross out the classification markings in the headers and footers, and stamped “declassified” on the record noting when it was declassified, by whom and under what authority. Since that does not appear to have been done with the classified documents reportedly identified to date, the documents remain classified and had to be treated as classified for handling and storage purposes."

 

[JMB802]

I can find no set procedure for a POTUS declassification of documents, something else the past administration hi-lighted that needs addressing.

Hence, the usual Trump apologist bullshit. It's not against the law so it's no big deal.

Imagine if it was revealed that dozens of boxes of classified or previously classified documents were in Obama's office in Martha's Vineyard?

 

[Luce]

He was, and could have declassified them then.

Then that will show up in the white house logs, unless he stole them too.

 

[Cardinal]

He was, and could have declassified them then.

Without the "declassified" markings, that he declassified them as President is purely speculation, and you only have his word to go by.

And trump wouldn't lie about that sort of thing, would he?

 

[mac]

That doesn't address what I said. If he declassified the documents, they would have that marker on them.

The entire process is him writing "Declassified By Donald J. Trump" and signing/dating it. Beyond that, it's just notifying relevant parties, but their lack of notification doesn't negate the declassification.

 

[Cardinal]

The entire process is him writing "Declassified By Donald J. Trump" and signing/dating it. Beyond that, it's just notifying relevant parties, but their lack of notification doesn't negate the declassification.

Incorrect. See post 35.

 

[Decypher]

I disagree. Insisting on fair treatment under the law is not a willingness to bring down the entire legal and judicial system.

Now, the FBI lying on warrant applications, and withholding evidence, well, that is an attack on the legal and judicial system.

Also, it is unhealthy for anyone calling oneself liberal to abandon a healthy skepticism of the actions and words of the FBI and DOJ. The amount of bootlicking going on about how reliable warrant applications and affidavits are, and the sheer amount of pretend hyperventilation about anyone daring question the integrity of our vaunted federal law enforcement folks is, well, mindboggling. Y'all on the Left, you know - being skeptical of law enforcement is supposed to be your thing.

It's the ACLU that is supposed to be out there demanding to see warrant applications and safeguarding the fourth amendment. That shouldn't go away when the Devil is in the Dock.

I’ve seen little talk of fair treatment (yourself excepted to give you your due) and endless demands of defunding the FBI, abolishing the DOJ, death threats to the judge, etc. All because a crooked politician stole some documents and refused to give them back.

 

[LouC]

I think the argument is that Trump declassified whatever on the way out the door?

That might be the argument, but that only adjusts one aspect of what might have been criminal. But that leaves open all sorts of other criminal possibilities in regards all of those documents that technically might have been blanket declassified by Donny Dip Shit waving his Magic Sharpie over them but that would still not absolve him of all manner of illegality via using that data for business leverage and for insider knowledge in business dealings.

But I am betting you already knew that.

 

[Luce]

The entire process is him writing "Declassified By Donald J. Trump" and signing/dating it. Beyond that, it's just notifying relevant parties, but their lack of notification doesn't negate the declassification.

You are incorrect.

He has to do that.

Then it has to be logged.

Then the documents have to be marked accordingly.

 

[Rexedgar]

You ask, I serve.

Expert Backgrounder: Criminal Statutes that Could Apply to Trump's Retention of Government Documents

Experts survey the possible crimes underlying search warrants executed at Mar-a-Lago.

www.justsecurity.org

"Strictly speaking, even if Trump ordered the declassification of the records (verbally or in writing), what is likely to matter for purposes of handling and storing the records after he left the White House was if the mandatory follow-on actions occurred. Classified documents have classification markings in the header and footer of each page, indicating the level of classification for the document as a whole. Furthermore, classified records have cover sheets that specifically indicate when the record was classified, by whom, and under what authority, as well as when the classification expires.

If Trump did in fact order the declassification, he still needed to make sure his staff took the necessary next steps to modify the classification markings on the documents before he could actually handle and store the records (as a private citizen) as if they were unclassified. Under security classification rules, a classification marking on a document has to be treated as valid and binding unless and until a subsequent marking replaces it. Appropriate government staffers would have needed to cross out the classification markings in the headers and footers, and stamped “declassified” on the record noting when it was declassified, by whom and under what authority. Since that does not appear to have been done with the classified documents reportedly identified to date, the documents remain classified and had to be treated as classified for handling and storage purposes."

“Expert Explainer”……”statues that could apply….” C’mon, man?

I can find no mention here:

The President Executive Order 13526

Classified National Security Information December 29, 2009 Part 1 - Original Classification Part 2 - Derivative Classification Part 3 - Declassification and Downgrading Part 4 - Safeguarding Part 5 - Implementation and Review Part 6- General Provisions This order prescribes a uniform system for...

www.archives.gov

I strongly agree that there should be a legal definition or procedure that cover this, but Ima take the ‘expert explainer“ with a healthy dose of skepticism.

 

[mac]

Incorrect. See post 35.

Post 35 is not accurate. the normal process in the case of the President declassifying something (what is described in post 35) is a "should", not a "shall". The reason for that process is so that various agencies do not then (after declassification) have improperly marked documents. However, and over classified document is nothing more than administrative problem, not a national security problem.

 

[mac]

You are incorrect.

He has to do that.

Then it has to be logged.

Then the documents have to be marked accordingly.

I'm not incorrect. I've been working in the classified arena for over 30 years. The President can declassify anything he wants for any reason he wants. The notifications after are for administrative purposes only.

 

[JMB802]

The entire process is him writing "Declassified By Donald J. Trump" and signing/dating it. Beyond that, it's just notifying relevant parties, but their lack of notification doesn't negate the declassification.

Even if Trump "declassified" them with his magic wand, they are still potentially Presidential records. And Presidential records are property of the US government. And it's not legal for Trump to have them at his private residence.

 

[Cardinal]

“Expert Explainer”……”statues that could apply….” C’mon, man?

I can find no mention here:

The President Executive Order 13526

Classified National Security Information December 29, 2009 Part 1 - Original Classification Part 2 - Derivative Classification Part 3 - Declassification and Downgrading Part 4 - Safeguarding Part 5 - Implementation and Review Part 6- General Provisions This order prescribes a uniform system for...

www.archives.gov

I strongly agree that there should be a legal definition or procedure that cover this, but Ima take the ‘expert explainer“ with a healthy dose of skepticism.

If you click on the names of the authors then I think you'll agree that they're qualified to speak on this. I didn't cite my mom's petsitter.

 

[Cardinal]

I'm not incorrect. I've been working in the classified arena for over 30 years. The President can declassify anything he wants for any reason he wants. The notifications after are for administrative purposes only.

That he can declassify anything isn't a point in dispute. What is in dispute is that he did, in fact, declassify the documents. If they didn't go through the declassification process, then all you have is his word that they were declassified.

 

[Rexedgar]

If you click on the names of the authors then I think you'll agree that they're qualified to speak on this. I didn't cite my mom's petsitter.

I honestly couldn’t get past the title. Where is the procedure written in the Constitution or legal code?

Edit: from your link: One potential stumbling block is that the statutory provision limits its scope to an “officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States.” There is scant case law addressing if the president of the United States would qualify as an “officer” in this particular statutory context, and the statute itself provides no clarity.”


Hint: I am playing advocate for the devil, here.