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So Allen has some Jewish ancestry

Captain America said:
I can't remember where I heard this but wasn't there a politician who had a Jewish father and a Christian mother and when he went to the country club, they would only let him play 9 holes? :rofl

Did I read that here?
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LOL in Cincinnati its harder for a guy like that to get into the most exclusive Jewish Club versus the most snobby WASP golf course
 
Stinger said:
But you have no problem coming here and slamming him about it.
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I am critiquing his reaction to the question. It would have been very easy to say, "It's not relevant" and then moved on. But he made a scene out of it, and then felt an obligation to issue a statement about it. Then he felt the need to point out how he eats ham sandwiches and his mom would make pork chops growing up. This is a man who is clearly bothered he has some Jewish roots, which I think speaks a lot about him, and it's not positive.
 
TurtleDude said:
generally agree. No one considers being a Roman Catholic, or even a Muslim a race. Malcom X didn't change his race when he became a Muslim (I am not going to debate whether his brand of Islam was really Muslim). However, many Jews I know (some of whom are atheist and still call themselves Jews) see their heritage as ethnic in addition to being religious. You can practice the Jewish faith without being ethnically Jewish and there are Christians who are ethnically Jewish (Rabbi Wise-founder of the Reformed Judaism in Cincinnati-family is now Christian)
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I would agree with your expanded explanation. Being Jewish is both a religious description and can be an ethnic description, but is not a racial description.
 
aps said:
I am critiquing his reaction to the question. It would have been very easy to say, "It's not relevant" and then moved on.
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I don't think you are in a position to make that judgement against him. Do you know any of the background on it?

But he made a scene out of it,
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He didn't make a scence, he put her in her place and deservedly so.

This is a man who is clearly bothered he has some Jewish roots, which I think speaks a lot about him, and it's not positive.
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And you don't know anything about his background of his mother do you. Yet you are willing to assign these things to him. His mother, having lived through the Nazi oppression had hid the fact that she came from a Jewish family, she had converted as a child. Some reporter, for unknown reasons, went looking into it and wrote a story. His mother was highly upset about it and he was trying to protect her. He had promised her he would not discuss it. Then this reporter brings it up in a national setting. He had every right to be upset about it.

Why was it even asked?

From Wolf Blitzers show yesterday

ALLEN: That's true, and she shared that with me.

Wolf, this is more than any sort of political campaign. This is so personal. To think that a person 70 years, 60 years since the Nazis is still having that pain in her, it's still paining her; she still lives in fear of that intimidation, that bigotry, that prejudice, that anti-Semitism, still is fearful in my mother.

And to see her hurt and to think that there are millions of others, and that we're hurt by this as well, that the person you love is still in fear and worrying, and that she's hid this all these years, and she was worried that her friends wouldn't like her, if they found this out.

And I just told her, ma, it doesn't matter. We love you for who you are. You're our spirit of the family. You're the essence.
 
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Stinger said:
I don't think you are in a position to make that judgement against him. Do you know any of the background on it?



He didn't make a scence, he put her in her place and deservedly so.



And you don't know anything about his background of his mother do you. Yet you are willing to assign these things to him. His mother, having lived through the Nazi oppression had hid the fact that she came from a Jewish family, she had converted as a child. Some reporter, for unknown reasons, went looking into it and wrote a story. His mother was highly upset about it and he was trying to protect her. He had promised her he would not discuss it. Then this reporter brings it up in a national setting. He had every right to be upset about it.

Why was it even asked?

From Wolf Blitzers show yesterday

ALLEN: That's true, and she shared that with me.

Wolf, this is more than any sort of political campaign. This is so personal. To think that a person 70 years, 60 years since the Nazis is still having that pain in her, it's still paining her; she still lives in fear of that intimidation, that bigotry, that prejudice, that anti-Semitism, still is fearful in my mother.

And to see her hurt and to think that there are millions of others, and that we're hurt by this as well, that the person you love is still in fear and worrying, and that she's hid this all these years, and she was worried that her friends wouldn't like her, if they found this out.

And I just told her, ma, it doesn't matter. We love you for who you are. You're our spirit of the family. You're the essence.
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I most certainly am in a position to make a judgment of him based on what I have seen and read. It is my judgment, and I am entitled to it. So what if it doesn't gel with your judgment? That's why your judgment is YOURS and mine is MINE.
 
aps said:
I most certainly am in a position to make a judgment of him based on what I have seen and read. It is my judgment, and I am entitled to it. So what if it doesn't gel with your judgment? That's why your judgment is YOURS and mine is MINE.
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If you want to defend this outrageous act go ahead, it is noted.
 
Stinger said:
If you want to defend this outrageous act go ahead, it is noted.
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OMG, it's noted? Nooooooooooooooooooo.


:lol:
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, he changed his faith/religion from a Christian sect (don't remember which one) to Jewish. One cannot change their race. Judaism is a religion not a race, kid.
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I always considered Judaism a religion as well but as soon as you criticize Isreali politics or policy, you are labeled anti-semetic and against the jewish faith. Wassup wit dat?
 
Captain America said:
I always considered Judaism a religion as well but as soon as you criticize Isreali politics or policy, you are labeled anti-semetic and against the jewish faith. Wassup wit dat?
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I know. And I disagree with that. Disagreeing with Israeli politics or policy has nothing to do with anti-semitism, unless attacks against Jews in general or against Judaism is included. Just like disagreeing with US politics or policy doesn't make you anti-American.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Just like disagreeing with US politics or policy doesn't make you anti-American.
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Not according to some of our resident neocons. :roll:
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I know. And I disagree with that. Disagreeing with Israeli politics or policy has nothing to do with anti-semitism, unless attacks against Jews in general or against Judaism is included. Just like disagreeing with US politics or policy doesn't make you anti-American.
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true enough-just like those of us who want affirmative action eliminated are not racist or anti-black just because we dislike a racist policy that hurts whites and asians.. However, I will admit that some racists are against affirmative action for racial reasons just as some anti-semites are anti Israel. They often couch their arguments in non-bigoted terms. I know Jews who are anti-Israel and during the 40's (if you ever read THE CHOSEN by Chaim Potok-Robby Benson was in the movie of that book-there was a major split between Zionist and Anti-zionist Jews as the state of Israel was being created)
 
TurtleDude said:
true enough-just like those of us who want affirmative action eliminated are not racist or anti-black just because we dislike a racist policy that hurts whites and asians.. However, I will admit that some racists are against affirmative action for racial reasons just as some anti-semites are anti Israel. They often couch their arguments in non-bigoted terms. I know Jews who are anti-Israel and during the 40's (if you ever read THE CHOSEN by Chaim Potok-Robby Benson was in the movie of that book-there was a major split between Zionist and Anti-zionist Jews as the state of Israel was being created)
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It's like this, and it can be applied to any similar issue: all racists are against affirmative action, but not all that are against affirmative action are racists.
 
Under the circumstances I can certainly understand Allen's ulterior motive, which was to spare his mother from undue media scrutiny and horiffic remembrance. On the tangential issue, how Mr. Allen internalizes and comes to terms with his ethnicity is entirely up to him.

Captain America said:
I always considered Judaism a religion as well but as soon as you criticize Isreali politics or policy, you are labeled anti-semetic and against the jewish faith. Wassup wit dat?
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You paint with a broad brush here Captain. Granted, there are indeed some who avail themselves of this faux device... but there are also many such as myself who debate Israeli issues honestly and sans any artificial contrivances. Condemn where appropriate, but also give earned credit its just due.
 
aps said:
I most certainly am in a position to make a judgment of him based on what I have seen and read. It is my judgment, and I am entitled to it. So what if it doesn't gel with your judgment? That's why your judgment is YOURS and mine is MINE.
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Yes you can make your judgement and we can all debate each others judgement which is what this forum is. I think we analyze our politicians too much.His heritage, his reaction, so what. I do admit I am bias. I like George Allen. I think he has a great shot at the Pres.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
It's like this, and it can be applied to any similar issue: all racists are against affirmative action, but not all that are against affirmative action are racists.
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many black racists are in favor of affirmative action since affirmative action is a racist policy
 
TurtleDude said:
many black racists are in favor of affirmative action since affirmative action is a racist policy
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It's not only a racist policy but it causes more racism from the extra racial tension that it causes.I have been called a racist because I am against affirmative action. But you know, I really don't care anymore.....If they can't debate without name calling, that's their problem...I seen a cool tag line.- "The definition of racist is a conservative that wins the debate with the lib.."
 
i dont agree with affirmative action either. it really should be based on economic need and academics. why should race even be a factor?? it shoudlnt!!

and why does it matter if George Allen has some 'jewish blood'?? does that make him any less of a politician or a man? is he all of a sudden going to not be a good senator?
 
alienken said:
Yes you can make your judgement and we can all debate each others judgement which is what this forum is. I think we analyze our politicians too much.His heritage, his reaction, so what. I do admit I am bias. I like George Allen. I think he has a great shot at the Pres.
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I think he may win in the Senate, but he's out as a presidential nominee. Not after all this bad publicity.
 
aps said:
I think he may win in the Senate, but he's out as a presidential nominee. Not after all this bad publicity.
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The only people the so-called "bad publicity", (actually calculated smear campaign) has any effect on are those on the far left who wouldn't support him anyway. Most people don't fall for this garbage.
 
Stinger said:
The only people the so-called "bad publicity", (actually calculated smear campaign) has any effect on are those on the far left who wouldn't support him anyway. Most people don't fall for this garbage.
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Well, according to what I have seen and read, I think some who voted for him in 2000 won't be voting for him again. People don't like racists, or liars. It would be one thing if he admitted he said certain words but now regretted it. I said a racist thing when I was in the 5th grade. Did I say it? Yes. Am I embarrassed I said it? You bet. People are forgiving to those who express remorse. He would rather lie than be honest. People hate liars.
 
Stinger said:
The only people the so-called "bad publicity", (actually calculated smear campaign) has any effect on are those on the far left who wouldn't support him anyway. Most people don't fall for this garbage.
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I looked at the 100 or so different mailboxes on the road I live on and was trying to figure how the hell to stuff a deer head into one of them:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
aps said:
Well, according to what I have seen and read, I think some who voted for him in 2000 won't be voting for him again. People don't like racists, or liars. It would be one thing if he admitted he said certain words but now regretted it. I said a racist thing when I was in the 5th grade. Did I say it? Yes. Am I embarrassed I said it? You bet. People are forgiving to those who express remorse. He would rather lie than be honest. People hate liars.
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people hate cheap shot artists. people dragging up alleged 30 year old activity on the 4th or 5th time the guy runs for office makes you wonder about them. IT shows to me that the democrats really have no principles other than trying to win. Its like that twit who held onto Bush's 25 year old DUI for 6 weeks to drop it on the electorate a few days before the election. In a perfect world, the clown who did that would be stricken with some pestilence
 
aps said:
I think he may win in the Senate, but he's out as a presidential nominee. Not after all this bad publicity.
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I am not sure...........I think most Americans will see it was just a smear campaign.............He has run for public office 3 times and there was never a hint of anything like this......


There was a woman on Hardball yesterday who said she heard him say the M word in 1979..........Oh but she admitted she is a democrat operative who volunteers at the democratic headquarters one day a week.................

Even Webb to his credit has said that he used the N words 30 years ago and believes most people who lived in the south did the same........

Democrats can't win on the issues so they start a smear campaign.....That is sad...........
 
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aps said:
Well, according to what I have seen and read, I think some who voted for him in 2000 won't be voting for him again. People don't like racists, or liars. It would be one thing if he admitted he said certain words but now regretted it. I said a racist thing when I was in the 5th grade. Did I say it? Yes. Am I embarrassed I said it? You bet. People are forgiving to those who express remorse. He would rather lie than be honest. People hate liars.
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For people to have to express remorse for hearsay allegations is absurd. Maybe evefryone in Congress should just stand up one day and appologize for anything anyone will ever accuse them of in the future. In fact why don't we just plan a national day a week from now and everyone can just appologize all at once and we can be done with it forever.

Oh and people don't like people who attempt baseless smears and who throw the race card when they can't convince people on the issues.
 
TurtleDude said:
people hate cheap shot artists. people dragging up alleged 30 year old activity on the 4th or 5th time the guy runs for office makes you wonder about them. IT shows to me that the democrats really have no principles other than trying to win. Its like that twit who held onto Bush's 25 year old DUI for 6 weeks to drop it on the electorate a few days before the election. In a perfect world, the clown who did that would be stricken with some pestilence
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We saw it in the Bush NG memo's on CBS, we saw it on the DIU thing, we saw in the Rove thing. People are fools to fall for this nonsense.
 
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