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Sinema doubles down on filibuster support, dealing likely fatal blow to Dems' election bills

jotathought said:
Why isn't Biden attempting to unify the country, which promised as part of his campaign, instead of continuing to divide it? If we had a leader to focus on this concept, the need for the filibuster and/or to remove the filibuster would be a non-issue. What we have is extreme legislation being submitted, and the ruling party is pissed they can't shove it through, so they continue to complain about legislative rules.
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Voting Rights is only extreme to the right.
 
Conservative said:
You really are confused, how does allowing someone else to keep more of what they earn create an environment were someone else can tell you what you can and cannot do? You don't think Biden mandates aren't telling someone else what they can and cannot do? What is it about people like you so confused and so supportive of the liberal ideology

What is your Democratic Congress going to do about that? You have no clue why there was a sunset in place for those tax cuts so why don't you find out? Congress under Democrat control can remove that sunset, will they> Why did you get a tax cut in the first place? How many Democrats voted for it?
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They couldn’t give a permanent. It to everybody and need the criteria to pass the cut.

So the donor class got the permanent cut and we got the bait and switch/poison pill one. Where it sunsets under the next administration so they can say they’re the bad guys. Not the first time the republicans pulled that shit.
 
jpevans said:
Voting Rights is only extreme to the right.
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Voting rights are sacred to conservatives like myself. However what your party is attempting push is not about voting rights, It's about legalizing voter fraud and federalizing state and local elections.
 
Conservative said:
Not to worry, the democrats will find a way to steal that election with manufacturing mail in ballots
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I know, aside from 2020, we stole the 2016 popular vote, managed to defraud Trump from the Iowa caucuses and let Cruz win, fixed Obama's 2020 election. Then there was Arizona, Florida, and Georgia according to Trump. We've been fixing the huge mail-in vote in Utah that way, ensuring democrats' dominance for decades in that state.

At some point, you guys are going to have to come up with proo... Wait! What am I thinking?... a Trump accusation is all that is required. After all, if he doesn't have to prove his charges, why should you?
 
jpevans said:
Voting Rights is only extreme to the right.
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Voting rights is only an issue when the left loses elections, voting has been going on in this country since its inception, now all of a sudden you want to make sure the left remains in power forever removing individual responsibility to go to the polls or request an official absentee ballot. Seems you want an election official to go door to door and get people off their couches to cast a ballot. Democracies are difficult, you want to take personal responsibility to go to the polls out of it
 
Nickyjo said:
I know, aside from 2020, we stole the 2016 popular vote, managed to defraud Trump from the Iowa caucuses and let Cruz win, fixed Obama's 2020 election. Then there was Arizona, Florida, and Georgia according to Trump. We've been fixing the huge mail-in vote in Utah that way, ensuring democrats' dominance for decades in that state.

At some point, you guys are going to have to come up with proo... Wait! What am I thinking?... a Trump accusation is all that is required. After all, if he doesn't have to prove his charges, why should you?
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"we"? who is we? stunning how stealing elections is only an issue when the left loses elections, Bush was illegitimate, Trump was illegitimate, Russian interference all liberal rhetoric and challenges which weren't a problem at the time.

What you cannot seem to grasp is the reality that prior to 2020 the election process was never challenged. Covid allowed the Democratic Party to weaponize it by creating no excuse mail in ballots that led to the votes against Trump giving us the incompetent we have now. There is no assurance that chain of custody is secure with no excuse mail in ballots or ballots sent to every registered voter in the state. You want democracy to be easy and it isn't/

You have a bad case of TDS which is out of place a year after the election so why are you diverting from the thread topic and the Biden results? Oh, I can see why you want to divert from Biden but the reality exists you and those with TDS owe the country an apology for giving us Biden/Harris
 
What if...? said:
They couldn’t give a permanent. It to everybody and need the criteria to pass the cut.
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Yes, why couldn't they get it permanent? hint, Democratic opposition. So with total control of Congress what is preventing them from extending the cuts?
What if...? said:
So the donor class got the permanent cut and we got the bait and switch/poison pill one. Where it sunsets under the next administration so they can say they’re the bad guys. Not the first time the republicans pulled that shit.
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Donor class? what exactly is the donor class and what exactly gives you the right to someone else's income and wealth? You are so poorly informed and biased it is scary, there is no reason the left cannot extend the tax cuts but that won't satisfy you. Class envy and jealousy are on display as well as ignorance of the taxes you pay, their purpose and the revenue generated along with the line items they pay for
 
Conservative said:
Yes, why couldn't they get it permanent? hint, Democratic opposition. So with total control of Congress what is preventing them from extending the cuts?

Donor class? what exactly is the donor class and what exactly gives you the right to someone else's income and wealth? You are so poorly informed and biased it is scary, there is no reason the left cannot extend the tax cuts but that won't satisfy you. Class envy and jealousy are on display as well as ignorance of the taxes you pay, their purpose and the revenue generated along with the line items they pay for
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Pretty sure it was about the rules of the way they got it passed. So democratic opposition in a way. Don’t seem to remember any negotiation with the dems either.
 
What if...? said:
Pretty sure it was about the rules of the way they got it passed. So democratic opposition in a way. Don’t seem to remember any negotiation with the dems either.
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So why can't your party extend those cuts
 
j brown's body said:
Maybe even decades ago? Things change.
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"But...but...that's different because of the time he said it!"

Pathetic argument. It's the same weakass stuff peddled by Cancel Cultists regarding movies from decades ago, such as Gone with the Wind.
 
Bottom line of the situation we face: we have an undemocratic institution, the Senate, with the Dakotas and Wyoming (total pop. about 2.3 million) having three times the representation as California (pop. over 39 million), and an undemocratic characteristic like the filibuster, requiring an undemocratic 60 votes to end, which Sinema wants to use to stifle the democratic process of allowing people to vote, on behalf of the other party's rules, whose leaders have stated openly that they don't want a lot of people voting.

Very tidy.
Conservative said:
"we"? who is we? stunning how stealing elections is only an issue when the left loses elections, Bush was illegitimate, Trump was illegitimate, Russian interference all liberal rhetoric and challenges which weren't a problem at the time.

What you cannot seem to grasp is the reality that prior to 2020 the election process was never challenged. Covid allowed the Democratic Party to weaponize it by creating no excuse mail in ballots that led to the votes against Trump giving us the incompetent we have now. There is no assurance that chain of custody is secure with no excuse mail in ballots or ballots sent to every registered voter in the state. You want democracy to be easy and it isn't/

You have a bad case of TDS which is out of place a year after the election so why are you diverting from the thread topic and the Biden results? Oh, I can see why you want to divert from Biden but the reality exists you and those with TDS owe the country an apology for giving us Biden/Harris
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Bush wasn't illegitimate. There were concerns about Florida in a very close election. The parties fought it out, with in my view the democrats making the strategic mistake of not calling for a statewide recount, and the court stopped the process. Gore wound up conceding graciously, even poking fun at himself in a Saturday Night Live skit. And hello? Mail in ballots have been around for a long time, used extensively in a variety of states, natural for them to be used during a covid crisis. Trump voted by mail, using that risky system himself.

Again, neither you nor Trump has offered proof of how democrats happened to defraud Trump, but neglected fixing Senate and House elections, nor have you answered the question I have posed to Trumpistas but none have answered: do Trump's repeated accusations of fraud, now stretching back a decade, ever enter your mind when it decides to believe his most recent claim of rigging. Remember, he said he couldn't lose in 2020 unless it was rigged, said it was rigged before, during and after the election, pressured Georgia to find a specific number of votes, etc. Why do you believe a guy who had such an extensive record of crooked deals even before he sought public office.
 
Nickyjo said:
Bottom line of the situation we face: we have an undemocratic institution, the Senate, with the Dakotas and Wyoming (total pop. about 2.3 million) having three times the representation as California (pop. over 39 million), and an undemocratic characteristic like the filibuster, requiring an undemocratic 60 votes to end, which Sinema wants to use to stifle the democratic process of allowing people to vote, on behalf of the other party's rules, whose leaders have stated openly that they don't want a lot of people voting.

Very tidy.

Bush wasn't illegitimate. There were concerns about Florida in a very close election. The parties fought it out, with in my view the democrats making the strategic mistake of not calling for a statewide recount, and the court stopped the process. Gore wound up conceding graciously, even poking fun at himself in a Saturday Night Live skit. And hello? Mail in ballots have been around for a long time, used extensively in a variety of states, natural for them to be used during a covid crisis. Trump voted by mail, using that risky system himself.

Again, neither you nor Trump has offered proof of how democrats happened to defraud Trump, but neglected fixing Senate and House elections, nor have you answered the question I have posed to Trumpistas but none have answered: do Trump's repeated accusations of fraud, now stretching back a decade, ever enter your mind when it decides to believe his most recent claim of rigging. Remember, he said he couldn't lose in 2020 unless it was rigged, said it was rigged before, during and after the election, pressured Georgia to find a specific number of votes, etc. Why do you believe a guy who had such an extensive record of crooked deals even before he sought public office.
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The proof is in the reality that record numbers of no excuse mail in ballots were cast without proper chain of custody security something you cannot comprehend.

The fact also is that Biden Won the EC by only 175000 votes in 5 states, all mail in ballots counted after the polls.

All that is old news, Biden is President, the results show his incompetence and we all are paying for your hatred of Trump and millions of others
 
Nickyjo said:
I know, aside from 2020, we stole the 2016 popular vote, managed to defraud Trump from the Iowa caucuses and let Cruz win, fixed Obama's 2020 election. Then there was Arizona, Florida, and Georgia according to Trump. We've been fixing the huge mail-in vote in Utah that way, ensuring democrats' dominance for decades in that state.

At some point, you guys are going to have to come up with proo... Wait! What am I thinking?... a Trump accusation is all that is required. After all, if he doesn't have to prove his charges, why should you?
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That's the crux of it. It was all made obvious in 2016 when he leveled the same accusations about the election, but was fine with the results when they went his way. That accusation was made about a month before the election, but in 2020 he cast the same doubt in August 2020 during a campaign rally. What's interesting about this approach is it doesn't take account for the long term damage it does, and to an extent, relies one one side being reasonable. If this becomes common practice, then the losing party can do the exact same thing and elections will become even more questionable.

Everything behind the 2020 election's "fraud" has been a bunch of vaporware. What it hinges on are doubts of the process being managed correctly without being able to present a solid case that it actually was mishandled in the way the former president claims. It's been a great con to keep himself somewhat relevant and making money off of those who buy any of this. For the die-hards, you hear the more absurd commentary of them not being able to believe one group of people decided to vote for someone else; if that's not the height of hubris, I don't know what is.
 
LetsGoBrandon said:
Voting rights are sacred to conservatives like myself. However what your party is attempting push is not about voting rights, It's about legalizing voter fraud and federalizing state and local elections.
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Yet you still don’t have any proof of fraud anybody in the world that doesn’t consume your media believes. Tens of millions out of eight billion bought that lie knowingly told.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if that percent of people in a society believed something and the rest were certain it was crazy talk, that tiny percentage would be considered insane.

What the people who pay the people who manufacture the propaganda you consume are really concerned about, and what trump and others said out loud, was that changes adopted to facilitate voting in a pandemic made it so easy to vote that people too lazy to go to the polls voted. And when people vote, republicans tend to lose.

And they did. You’ll notice that they are careful to use qualifying language. “Potential for fraud” or some variant. This is so they stay inside the law. But y’all believe it. The lack of evidence is unimpeachable evidence to you.

Because human beings begin to believe things they hear over and over, presented as truth. Whether they are true or not. Primary tool by which horrid people lead good people to do horrid things.

So, you see, you are defending a response to a nonexistent problem. Except a fading party losing power, of course.

That’s a big problem for republican investors. So it’s everybody’s problem.

And you will notice there’s no effort on the part of the republicans to try to appeal to more voters. I mean they spread propaganda in the hopes of snagging some new voters. But they don’t change their platforms to adapt to changing views on issues.

TL/DR:

You believe a pack of lies. To get you to accept a bald power grab.

The Founders would be appalled.
 
What if...? said:
Yet you still don’t have any proof of fraud anybody in the world that doesn’t consume your media believes. Tens of millions out of eight billion bought that lie knowingly told.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if that percent of people in a society believed something and the rest were certain it was crazy talk, that tiny percentage would be considered insane.

What the people who pay the people who manufacture the propaganda you consume are really concerned about, and what trump and others said out loud, was that changes adopted to facilitate voting in a pandemic made it so easy to vote that people too lazy to go to the polls voted. And when people vote, republicans tend to lose.

And they did. You’ll notice that they are careful to use qualifying language. “Potential for fraud” or some variant. This is so they stay inside the law. But y’all believe it. The lack of evidence is unimpeachable evidence to you.

Because human beings begin to believe things they hear over and over, presented as truth. Whether they are true or not. Primary tool by which horrid people lead good people to do horrid things.

So, you see, you are defending a response to a nonexistent problem. Except a fading party losing power, of course.

That’s a big problem for republican investors. So it’s everybody’s problem.

And you will notice there’s no effort on the part of the republicans to try to appeal to more voters. I mean they spread propaganda in the hopes of snagging some new voters. But they don’t change their platforms to adapt to changing views on issues.

TL/DR:

You believe a pack of lies. To get you to accept a bald power grab.

The Founders would be appalled.
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Since when does proof matter as you voted for Biden who was incompetent under Obama and is showing that incompetence now. You also ignored the proof of why the tax cuts had a sunset as you only buy rhetoric that you want to believe so I wouldn't be claiming someone else believes a pack of lives because you show that in every post. the only power grab is liberals trying to destroy the filibuster to pass a voter's rights bill that allows illegals or anyone to vote plus take away power from the states where voting rules are under their control. I call those actions hypocritical
 
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Conservative said:
The proof is in the reality that record numbers of no excuse mail in ballots were cast without proper chain of custody security something you cannot comprehend.

The fact also is that Biden Won the EC by only 175000 votes in 5 states, all mail in ballots counted after the polls.

All that is old news, Biden is President, the results show his incompetence and we all are paying for your hatred of Trump and millions of others
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When was this plan hatched? Who organized this? Who staffed it? Why has no participant come forward to tell and sell the story of the century? How did the lack of proper chain of custody differ in 2020 than in the past? Why did Barr not notice this and say the election was ok? Why did Trump fire his own appointed cyber security guy who said things went ok? And of course, please name an election that Trump did not claim was rigged. He suggested 3 million illegal votes in 2016, and an investigation turned up nothing.

For many in the GOP, until and if Trump is further disgraced by civil or criminal cases, this will remain like the South's Lost Cause, a remembrance of what might have been if only... Or perhaps like the German story of the "stab in the back" at Versailles at the end of WWI. Only instead of Jews, it will be illegals, Barr, Soros, whoever that caused the betrayal.

Wanna put money down that Trump wont claim fraud if he runs in 2024, win or lose. Its his thing, and his supporters lap it up.

As to Biden, I like the infrastructure projects passed under his leadership that Trump couldnt pull off. Happy with him rejoining all the nations of the world on climate. Glad he will do better on the environment. And please, hatred of Trump? Why not? He insulted my immigrant father, referring to him and others as poisonous snakes. His motto was Make America Hate Again. Name a group of Americans he didnt insult or disparage.
 
Nickyjo said:
When was this plan hatched? Who organized this? Who staffed it? Why has no participant come forward to tell and sell the story of the century? How did the lack of proper chain of custody differ in 2020 than in the past? Why did Barr not notice this and say the election was ok? Why did Trump fire his own appointed cyber security guy who said things went ok? And of course, please name an election that Trump did not claim was rigged. He suggested 3 million illegal votes in 2016, and an investigation turned up nothing.
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With all the money in politics you don't think that was a possibility? Wow, are you that naive. As for chain of custody, how many mail in ballots were cast in 2016 vs 2020? But why is this even an issue today, stop diverting from the disaster you helped put into the WH and still cannot tell us why
Nickyjo said:
For many in the GOP, until and if Trump is further disgraced by civil or criminal cases, this will remain like the South's Lost Cause, a remembrance of what might have been if only... Or perhaps like the German story of the "stab in the back" at Versailles at the end of WWI. Only instead of Jews, it will be illegals, Barr, Soros, whoever that caused the betrayal.
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There you go again, Trump being a disgrace, how does that affect you and why does it matter today?
Nickyjo said:
Wanna put money down that Trump wont claim fraud if he runs in 2024, win or lose. Its his thing, and his supporters lap it up.
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Don't know nor do I care, what I do care about is the disaster you helped put into the WH out of pure ignorant hatred for Trump
Nickyjo said:
As to Biden, I like the infrastructure projects passed under his leadership that Trump couldnt pull off. Happy with him rejoining
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What is it about the GOP policies that bothers you? Biden's infrastructure bill is another bit of feel good legislation that you people eat up. Do you even know what taxes fund infrastructure and what responsibility rests with the state and local communities? Stop buying rhetoric and educate youreself
Nickyjo said:
all the nations of the world on climate. Glad he will do better on the environment. And please, hatred of Trump? Why not? He insulted my immigrant father, referring to him and others as poisonous snakes. His motto was Make America Hate Again. Name a group of Americans he didnt insult or disparage.
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Amazing how for centuries we have survived and how easy it is to indoctrinate good people like you. You tell me what good climate control is in the United States when the biggest violators are China, India, and Russia. Guess we don't breath their air?

Stop the TDS it is a waste of time and very misguided since you cannot explain what Trump did or implemented that hurt you or your family that warrants this hatred?
 
What if...? said:
Yet you still don’t have any proof of fraud anybody in the world that doesn’t consume your media believes. Tens of millions out of eight billion bought that lie knowingly told.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if that percent of people in a society believed something and the rest were certain it was crazy talk, that tiny percentage would be considered insane.

What the people who pay the people who manufacture the propaganda you consume are really concerned about, and what trump and others said out loud, was that changes adopted to facilitate voting in a pandemic made it so easy to vote that people too lazy to go to the polls voted. And when people vote, republicans tend to lose.

And they did. You’ll notice that they are careful to use qualifying language. “Potential for fraud” or some variant. This is so they stay inside the law. But y’all believe it. The lack of evidence is unimpeachable evidence to you.

Because human beings begin to believe things they hear over and over, presented as truth. Whether they are true or not. Primary tool by which horrid people lead good people to do horrid things.

So, you see, you are defending a response to a nonexistent problem. Except a fading party losing power, of course.

That’s a big problem for republican investors. So it’s everybody’s problem.

And you will notice there’s no effort on the part of the republicans to try to appeal to more voters. I mean they spread propaganda in the hopes of snagging some new voters. But they don’t change their platforms to adapt to changing views on issues.

TL/DR:

You believe a pack of lies. To get you to accept a bald power grab.

The Founders would be appalled.
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That rant is alot of nothing coherent.
 
Conservative said:
With all the money in politics you don't think that was a possibility? Wow, are you that naive. As for chain of custody, how many mail in ballots were cast in 2016 vs 2020? But why is this even an issue today, stop diverting from the disaster you helped put into the WH and still cannot tell us why

There you go again, Trump being a disgrace, how does that affect you and why does it matter today?

Don't know nor do I care, what I do care about is the disaster you helped put into the WH out of pure ignorant hatred for Trump

What is it about the GOP policies that bothers you? Biden's infrastructure bill is another bit of feel good legislation that you people eat up. Do you even know what taxes fund infrastructure and what responsibility rests with the state and local communities? Stop buying rhetoric and educate youreself

Amazing how for centuries we have survived and how easy it is to indoctrinate good people like you. You tell me what good climate control is in the United States when the biggest violators are China, India, and Russia. Guess we don't breath their air?

Stop the TDS it is a waste of time and very misguided since you cannot explain what Trump did or implemented that hurt you or your family that warrants this hatred?
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Will bother to answer your last point/question only. Trump said on more than one occasion that taking in immigrants was like taking a poisonous snake into your home. Not illegals - he specified that he was talking about immigration in general. My father was an immigrant, one who knew more about this country and it’s history than Trump could hope to. Trump bragged about grabbing women. I had a mother, a sister and have a wife. Trump proposed banning an entire religion. I have Muslim friends and co-workers. Trump lied about refugees and asylum seekers. I worked with such people for over 20 years and can tell you precisely the details of those lies. Trump’s first actions upon coming to office included loosening job safety rules, saying injuries/deaths on the job need not be considered in granting goby contracts, and he allowed use of a pesticide under study, one that causes birth defects. I have a scar from a workplace accident, one involving a govt contract, my wife lost a pregnancy to a birth defect and worked with farm workers who lost fingernails to pesticides.

You call me naive, yet you believe Trump’s lies about a fixed election that no one has come forward to admit participating in, despite the fact that they could sell their story and no doubt cop a plea if they implicated others, and despite the fact that Trump always complains about elections being rigged. Who’s being naive?
 
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