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Show me the beef!

grip said:
I have a simple question. What human on this board could possibly ever produce evidence of a god that doesn't want to be proven? It doesn't matter if he exists, he obviously doesn't do magic shows for the masses, yet.

If I were him, I'd do a one time display of power on a scale never before imagined that last forever. Which is what I'm pretty sure he has planned at the end.
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Why on Earth would a God not want to be acknowledged. What could it possibly gain by that? It's a nonsensical claim.
 
watsup said:
Why on Earth would a God not want to be acknowledged. What could it possibly gain by that? It's a nonsensical claim.
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Because if we disobeyed him to his face, he might not be so forgiving? Because people would be so preoccupied begging him for things and to save them that they wouldn't focus on living? But mainly because he's inside us as our life, which is what he wants you to worship, not some outward manifestation.

You do believe in your life? Well, that's him.
 
Valery said:
I fear the one who actually names required evidences would not really believe regardless of evidence, seeing as evidence is all around us. What the faithless lack is not evidence. I don't know if the question is valid or not, but I do think it is unnecessary.
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Yes, evidence is all around us. Our world, it's delicate balance, our existence, is literally a "miracle". If you make the assumption that we are alone. Every day we find that there are more and more galaxies with planets that may support life. Created millions of years before we even existed. And the distances involved make it unlikely we would ever have any knowledge of each other.
And that very thing brings to mind a question. If it is just us, why do we need such a large playground? That we can never, ever, reach the other side of? To quote, "seems like an awful waste of space".
 
grip said:
Because if we disobeyed him to his face, he might not be so forgiving? Because people would be so preoccupied begging him for things and to save them that they wouldn't focus on living? But mainly because he's inside us as our life, which is what he wants you to worship, not some outward manifestation.

You do believe in your life? Well, that's him.
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Whatever. *YAWN*
 
trblmkr said:
Yes, evidence is all around us. Our world, it's delicate balance, our existence, is literally a "miracle". If you make the assumption that we are alone. Every day we find that there are more and more galaxies with planets that may support life. Created millions of years before we even existed. And the distances involved make it unlikely we would ever have any knowledge of each other.
And that very thing brings to mind a question. If it is just us, why do we need such a large playground? That we can never, ever, reach the other side of? To quote, "seems like an awful waste of space".
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The answer is very simple. The universe doesn't care if life appears or not. It will go on with our without it. You seem to assume that humans were somehow a goal of the universe, when there is simply no evidence that the universe cares at all. You are being homocentric, but there is no reason to believe that the entire universe is somehow here just for us. That doesn't mean that we can't spend our time to try to figure it out. What else do we have to do? Make war against one another?
 
grip said:
I have a simple question. What human on this board could possibly ever produce evidence of a god that doesn't want to be proven? It doesn't matter if he exists, he obviously doesn't do magic shows for the masses, yet.

If I were him, I'd do a one time display of power on a scale never before imagined that last forever. Which is what I'm pretty sure he has planned at the end.
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Ok, so a god that is invisible and does not 'wish' (according to those who supposedly know) to interact with the physical realm is virtually indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. So why should I believe this crap?
 
NWO_Spook said:
Ok, so a god that is invisible and does not 'wish' (according to those who supposedly know) to interact with the physical realm is virtually indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. So why should I believe this crap?
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He interacts with those who wish to interact with Him...the ridiculers and naysayers...not so much...
 
watsup said:
The answer is very simple. The universe doesn't care if life appears or not. It will go on with our without it. You seem to assume that humans were somehow a goal of the universe, when there is simply no evidence that the universe cares at all. You are being homocentric, but there is no reason to believe that the entire universe is somehow here just for us. That doesn't mean that we can't spend our time to try to figure it out. What else do we have to do? Make war against one another?
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I am an atheist. You completely misunderstood my response to someone else who has a different take. No worries. I have no doubt the universe doesn't know we exist and I only hope when the meteor comes, I only have time to look up and say, " what the hell is that"?
 
Elvira said:
He interacts with those who wish to interact with Him...the ridiculers and naysayers...not so much...
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That's the claim. However, that claim does not have any objective evidence for it. In fact, there are many who claim to have interaction with God that are the meanest, cruelest and uncouth people about. I think any kind of contact with a real god would have the exact opposite effect. That shows me that their belief does not hold up to examination.
 
RAMOSS said:
That's the claim. However, that claim does not have any objective evidence for it. In fact, there are many who claim to have interaction with God that are the meanest, cruelest and uncouth people about. I think any kind of contact with a real god would have the exact opposite effect. That shows me that their belief does not hold up to examination.
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Agreed...
 
watsup said:
"what evidence would you accept to show there is a God?"
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The criteria for what it might take for anyone to accept something on faith is going to be different for each individual person.

Because you don’t know what it might take to accept a belief in god doesn’t make you a fake/weak atheist, it makes you a honest atheist.

“I don’t know” is a perfectly reasonable, perfectly honest, and perfectly intelligent answer.

What is the right answer?

I would have to witness a true, supernatural miracle.
It would take a near-death experience where I leave my physical body and actually see Jesus.
A very vivid altered state of consciousness episode might do it.
Being suddenly cured when suffering a uncurable and deadly illness.
Seeing my dead parents rise from their grave.
Being visited by, and conversing with an actual angel.
Having everything around me destroyed by a tornado, but me and my entre family survive unscathed.
Being shot at point blank range by a thief and having the bullet ricochet off a button on my coat and surviving unharmed.
Calmly sitting on the beach and watching the sunrise, and just being overwhelmed by a feeling of immense love and warmth like never before.
Making toast and seeing an image appear on the surface of the bread.
I just woke up one day and BLAM!!!! I believe.

The right answer is:

I'll know it when I see it, but until then I just don't know.
 
Valery said:
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That shows the dishonesty of the discovery institute, and MIcheal Denton in specific. No one ever say that cells just miraculously got thrown together, but , rather through natural chemical processes, developed over time. All you need to kick off the process is a self replicating molecule. Biologists discovered that there is an RNA molecule that is self replicating, and it uses the chemicals that were common in the early earth environment.

SO, this is the argument from incredulity and the argument form ignorance, both logical fallacies.

It also is a straw man, since no one said it happened that way.
 
NWO_Spook said:
Ok, so a god that is invisible and does not 'wish' (according to those who supposedly know) to interact with the physical realm is virtually indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. So why should I believe this crap?
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You do know his every move hinges on what you believe?
 
grip said:
You do know his every move hinges on what you believe?
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1. As if you know anything at all about this god, because you don't. None of you know anything about this construct.

2. Why should I believe these stories just because you and others do? If this construct exists, then it should be able to demonstrate its existence, if it doesn't exist, its safe to assume that it won't (that was the core theme).

3. Until someone can demonstrate that this construct exists, then why would I believe in the existence of it in the first place? In light of that, any claim about his 'every move etc.' is utter gibberish to me.
 
NWO_Spook said:
1. As if you know anything at all about this god, because you don't. None of you know anything about this construct.

2. Why should I believe these stories just because you and others do? If this construct exists, then it should be able to demonstrate its existence, if it doesn't exist, its safe to assume that it won't (that was the core theme).

3. Until someone can demonstrate that this construct exists, then why would I believe in the existence of it in the first place? In light of that, any claim about his 'every move etc.' is utter gibberish to me.
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Who gives a **** what you believe. It doesn't arise to a pimple on the ass of the world.
 
NWO_Spook said:
The quote in the OP is just another lame attempt to evade the burden of proof. Their god should know what it would take, and if it is as omnipotent as they claim, it could tailor it's display to meet the needs of the individual.

Basically, every hippy on this site has a dumbass theory on what they believe is the definition of their god, and they have all been presented without a shred of credible evidence (for the evidence is as weak as their argument). Now, it is up to those so-called idiot sceptics to qualify the standard of evidence?

Er no, it doesn't work like that. Show me why I should believe your claim, or not, but don't try to weasel out of it and expect me to jump through your hoops.
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You need to ask yourself why is it you ask for evidence? what is the atheists motive in asking for evidence?

In my decades of experience it is this: the dishonest desire to reject whatever is presented to them, it's that simple, they want someone to go to the trouble of presenting something just so they can say "Nah, that's not evidence".
 
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trblmkr said:
I am an atheist. You completely misunderstood my response to someone else who has a different take. No worries. I have no doubt the universe doesn't know we exist and I only hope when the meteor comes, I only have time to look up and say, " what the hell is that"?
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You'll soon realize that Watsup often completely misunderstands what people say to him.
 
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