Should We Repeal Trump Tax Cuts?

[OrphanSlug]

then stop talking about that which you do not understand. You focus on the bottomline not context or the reality that it is mandatory spending that is causing the deficits increasing all because Congress and Presidents spent the SS trust fund money, borrowing it and never paying it back. You refuse to acknowledge that reality blaming FIT cuts for the deficit. That is false liberal narrative from people who desperately need massive gov't spending for personal responsibility issues and expect the 50% of income earning Americans who pay FIT to fund those programs.

If you pay FIT and are so concerned about the deficit, send your FIT tax cut back to the IRS and stop complaining about others keeping theirs

I did focus in the bottom line, Trump and Republicans went with fiscal policy that increased deficits at a time that the economy did not demand doing so making him, Republicans in Congress, and his supporters galactically stupid.

No matter how you cut it Republicans let fiscal matters get worse with no plan on dealing with it.

And don't tell me about what I do not understand, every single cent paid into SS is exchanged for special issued debt held by the fund with the money going right into the general ledger as a matter of law. It is paid back as every cent paid from SS handled the same way in reverse. The trust fund itself is nothing more than a book of what was exchanged in and then cashed out reconciled to the day.

If you dislike SS or the price tag for having it then advocate for killing SS, until then we have no choice but to ensure the amount of special issued debt held by that Trust Fund (which is a misnomer) does not reach zero.

 

[Conservative]

OK, I’ll play your mandatory vs discretionary spending game for a minute. You stated that the ‘surplus’ from FICA payroll taxes (according to you, intended to be used for mandatory spending only) was borrowed and spent to fund discretionary spending (instead of raising FIT/CIT revenue to do so), yet you see no need to raise FIT/CIT revenue in order to pay those borrowed (mandatory spending) funds back.

It makes no sense at all to say that using borrowed ‘mandatory’ tax funds to cover ‘discretionary’ spending was fine, but using discretionary tax (FIT/CIT) funds to (later) pay that back is somehow wrong.

When you borrow money you always pay it back, not just the interest and that never happened. What you do is what most liberals do, ignore the fact that this happened, that FIT and CIT were never created to fund discretionary budget, and when LBJ put FICA on budget he opened the flood gates for people to demand that FIT fund the SS and Medicare shortfall created by that borrowing.

I gave you a link to the budget of the United States for 2019 that everyone wants to ignore. It explains quite well the line items in the budget and what taxes fund those line items. Why are you getting caught up into the liberal spin about FIT cuts causing the deficits when the Universal Budget never was the intent nor the reality of what our Founders or FDR created?

 

[jdog]

If the GOP is so concerned about gov spending and adding to the deficit, then why are they resistant to eliminating tax cuts for the rich?

Chris Wallace Grills GOP Senator on National Debt: Should We Repeal Trump Tax Cuts?

Fox News SundayFox News anchor Chris Wallace repeatedly pressed Sen. Rick Scott (R-FL) over his supposed concerns about the national debt and deficit, asking the Florida lawmaker if he would support repealing the 2017 Trump tax cuts to help balance the budget.With Republicans uniformly opposed...

news.yahoo.com

- Fox News anchor Chris Wallace repeatedly pressed Sen. Rick Scott (R-FL) over his supposed concerns about the national debt and deficit, asking the Florida lawmaker if he would support repealing the 2017 Trump tax cuts to help balance the budget.

“You talk about living within your means, you talk about debt, you talk about deficits, the Trump tax cuts—which were passed in 2017, the year before you were elected to the Senate—was estimated by the Congressional Budget Office that it will increase the budget deficit by over $2 trillion over 11 years,” Wallace shot back. “So should the Trump tax cuts be repealed?”

Dodging the veteran Fox anchor’s question, the senator once again referenced his past experience as governor, saying he cut taxes and fees during his time running the state. “We need lower taxes,” he added.

“Sir, respectfully, when Donald Trump was president, you had a tax cut which added $2 trillion to the deficit according to the CBO and you didn't have the commensurate spending cuts,” Wallace pushed back. “So the question is if you are not going to have the spending cuts, should you repeal the tax cuts if that debt and deficit are so vital?”

Scott once more deflected Wallace’s direct query, insisting that he’s “not raising anyone’s taxes” and he wants to “watch how we spend our money.”

At this point it is just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The Federal Government is so far in debt, that it will have to substantially raise taxes just to pay the interest. Between raising taxes and the silent inflation tax, you will all be far worse off in 5 years than you are today. Far worse.
You see the truth is the government does not have any money. None. The only money it has is YOUR money. Every dollar it spends, it borrows on your assets. You are on the hook for that debt and if necessary they will confiscate your personal wealth to pay that debt. That debt in real terms, is now about $400K for every taxpayer.
That debt has caused a decrease in the standard of living dramatically in the past 50-70 years. In the 50's & 60's a single income blue collar household could easily afford a 3br home and purchase a new car every 2 years. Today most 2 income white collar households cannot pull that off today.
Run away government spending is going cause massive inflation going forward as we are already beginning to see. It is going to get much worse going forward. Along with huge property value gains comes huge property tax increases. Costs of even used cars is rising and new cars are scarce at lots nationwide. Shortages are driving inflation in almost everything as there is little incentive to keep prices low when supply is scarce.
This thing is going to get ugly, real ugly.

 

[Conservative]

I did focus in the bottom line, Trump and Republicans went with fiscal policy that increased deficits at a time that the economy did not demand doing so making him, Republicans in Congress, and his supporters galactically stupid.

No matter how you cut it Republicans let fiscal matters get worse with no plan on dealing with it.

And don't tell me about what I do not understand, every single cent paid into SS is exchanged for special issued debt held by the fund with the money going right into the general ledger as a matter of law. It is paid back as every cent paid from SS handled the same way in reverse. The trust fund itself is nothing more than a book of what was exchanged in and then cashed out reconciled to the day.

If you dislike SS or the price tag for having it then advocate for killing SS, until then we have no choice but to ensure the amount of special issued debt held by that Trust Fund (which is a misnomer) does not reach zero.

No, you focused on the bottom line but as usual lacking context and nothing every changes the mind of radical liberal cultists. You don't like your tax cut, IF YOU PAY FIT, then send it back, stop blaming others for creating a deficit that Congress and the liberal elites created.

Every dollar collected for SS and Medicare was an interest free loan paid by the taxpayers to the bureaucrats who borrowed that money, paid back only the interest and never the principle leaving a shortfall. That reality doesn't exist in the minds of liberals who believe that people keeping more of what they earn by FIT cuts takes money away from the bureaucrats to spend. NO it takes money from SS and Medicare Funding that FICA has to pay back. Were you upset when Obama gave you a payroll tax holiday?

 

[Conservative]

At this point it is just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The Federal Government is so far in debt, that it will have to substantially raise taxes just to pay the interest. Between raising taxes and the silent inflation tax, you will all be far worse off in 5 years than you are today. Far worse.
You see the truth is the government does not have any money. None. The only money it has is YOUR money. Every dollar it spends, it borrows on your assets. You are on the hook for that debt and if necessary they will confiscate your personal wealth to pay that debt. That debt in real terms, is now about $400K for every taxpayer.
That debt has caused a decrease in the standard of living dramatically in the past 50-70 years. In the 50's & 60's a single income blue collar household could easily afford a 3br home and purchase a new car every 2 years. Today most 2 income white collar households cannot pull that off today.
Run away government spending is going cause massive inflation going forward as we are already beginning to see. It is going to get much worse going forward. Along with huge property value gains comes huge property tax increases. Costs of even used cars is rising and new cars are scarce at lots nationwide. Shortages are driving inflation in almost everything as there is little incentive to keep prices low when supply is scarce.
This thing is going to get ugly, real ugly.

Right now Debt service is the fourth largest budget item funding the debt created throughout history. It is stunning how people buy liberal rhetoric and ignore liberal results.

 

[Conservative]

This is nothing to do with bureaucrats.
Or party politics.

This is to do with US billionaires putting undo influence on American macroeconomics through the Federal Reserve.
And the Fed is a privately-owned, FOR PROFIT corporation.
And the Fed is systematically DESTROYING the US economy to prop up their Billionaire buddies and/or because it is full of macroeconomic ignoramuses.

The ONLY way to stop the Fed - since the POTUS/Congress won't and the masses are too stupid to even understand it - is to take away those who directly support them...the US mega-wealthy.

You end/neuter the Fed?
And I would remove the wealth tax.

Do you really believe Billionaires and their taxes is the problem in a 5.2 TRILLION dollar budget? Stop the class envy and jealousy as it distorts the reality that liberal elitism is the problem not billionaire tax cuts. This country was never built on class envy and jealousy so why are you promoting it

 

[OrphanSlug]

No, you focused on the bottom line but as usual lacking context and nothing every changes the mind of radical liberal cultists. You don't like your tax cut, IF YOU PAY FIT, then send it back, stop blaming others for creating a deficit that Congress and the liberal elites created.

Every dollar collected for SS and Medicare was an interest free loan paid by the taxpayers to the bureaucrats who borrowed that money, paid back only the interest and never the principle leaving a shortfall. That reality doesn't exist in the minds of liberals who believe that people keeping more of what they earn by FIT cuts takes money away from the bureaucrats to spend. NO it takes money from SS and Medicare Funding that FICA has to pay back. Were you upset when Obama gave you a payroll tax holiday?

I have all the context I need, Trump and Republicans made the deficit worse with no economic reasoning to do so. Since you repeatedly fail to even mention economics I can only conclude you have no idea what you are talking about.

SS has been operating this way for decades, again you are wrong.

 

[jdog]

Right now Debt service is the fourth largest budget item funding the debt created throughout history. It is stunning how people buy liberal rhetoric and ignore liberal results.

We are way beyond the point of saving the country, it is now time to focus on personal survival.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Right now Debt service is the fourth largest budget item funding the debt created throughout history. It is stunning how people buy liberal rhetoric and ignore liberal results.

Irony, the asinine assumption that only liberals have policy that adds to debt.

Get your head out of the partisan sand.

 

[Conservative]

What punish?
It will not cost them anything - if they do it right.

And many of these mega-wealthy are destroying the US economy through the privately-owned and operated, Federal Reserve whom prop them up.


And it goes MUCH farther than 'punishing the mega-rich'.
It's about ending the Fed's influence and destruction of the US economy.

Do you really believe those billionaires have enough money to fund the liberal spending appetite? Do you honestly believe they are the problem creating trillion dollar deficits? Is it your contention that allowing people to keep more of what they earn in FIT causes deficits and if so why isn't data posted to support that claim? Treasury will show that 2 trillion dollars was collected in FIT, CIT and Excise taxes in 2019 to fund 1.4 trillion dollars in discretionary spending which FIT and CIT were created to fund. Can you explain how that creates deficits and where the deficits really come from? Were you as upset with the FICA cuts under Obama as you appear to be with the FIT cuts under Trump? There really is a problem in this country with the education system that equates FICA and FIT in the budget process

 

[Conservative]

We are way beyond the point of saving the country, it is now time to focus on personally survival.

And that comes from people keeping more of what they earn, accepting personal responsibility and creating an atmosphere that our Founders created, neighbor helping neighbor with that neighbor not being a federal or state bureuacrat

 

[Conservative]

Irony, the asinine assumption that only liberals have policy that adds to debt.

Get your head out of the partisan sand.

The ignorance from the left on taxes shows that reality. You going to tell us how allowing people to keep more of what they earn benefits liberalism?

 

[Conservative]

I have all the context I need, Trump and Republicans made the deficit worse with no economic reasoning to do so. Since you repeatedly fail to even mention economics I can only conclude you have no idea what you are talking about.

SS has been operating this way for decades, again you are wrong.

Keep showing ignorance of reality, debt service doubled during the first three years of Trump due to 7 interest rate hikes, how is that Republican fault? Mandatory spending on entitlements increased per law during the Trump term, how is that Trump's fault? Do you believe Trump and Republicans put cost of living increases into the SS policy? Do you believe Trump and Republicans are responsible for interest rate hikes? Where did any education system teach you this kind of rhetoric and form your thought process?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Keep showing ignorance of reality, debt service doubled during the first three years of Trump due to 7 interest rate hikes, how is that Republican fault? Mandatory spending on entitlements increased per law during the Trump term, how is that Trump's fault? Do you believe Trump and Republicans put cost of living increases into the SS policy? Do you believe Trump and Republicans are responsible for interest rate hikes? Where did any education system teach you this kind of rhetoric and form your thought process?

Since you acknowledge that federal spending (and thus borrowing and printing of funds to keep up with it) was being forced up, was it a wise time to decrease FIT/CIT rates?

 

[The Work Outing]

Do you really believe Billionaires and their taxes is the problem in a 5.2 TRILLION dollar budget? Stop the class envy and jealousy as it distorts the reality that liberal elitism is the problem not billionaire tax cuts. This country was never built on class envy and jealousy so why are you promoting it

Did you not read my post(s)?
My point has NOTHING to do with the budget.
I am talking about the Fed and fixing the economy.

 

[The Work Outing]

Do you really believe those billionaires have enough money to fund the liberal spending appetite? Do you honestly believe they are the problem creating trillion dollar deficits? Is it your contention that allowing people to keep more of what they earn in FIT causes deficits and if so why isn't data posted to support that claim? Treasury will show that 2 trillion dollars was collected in FIT, CIT and Excise taxes in 2019 to fund 1.4 trillion dollars in discretionary spending which FIT and CIT were created to fund. Can you explain how that creates deficits and where the deficits really come from? Were you as upset with the FICA cuts under Obama as you appear to be with the FIT cuts under Trump? There really is a problem in this country with the education system that equates FICA and FIT in the budget process

Should We Repeal Trump Tax Cuts?

then stop talking about that which you do not understand. You focus on the bottomline not context or the reality that it is mandatory spending that is causing the deficits increasing all because Congress and Presidents spent the SS trust fund money, borrowing it and never paying it back. You...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Conservative]

Since you acknowledge that federal spending (and thus borrowing and printing of funds to keep up with it) was being forced up, was it a wise time to decrease FIT/CIT rates?

Since FIT and CIT cuts lead to economic activity and revenue growth, yes I never have a problem with the gov't cutting tax rates. What is ignored here is the effect on FIT cuts on state and local tax revenue, all benefiting the community and hurting the liberal elites

 

[Conservative]

Should We Repeal Trump Tax Cuts?

then stop talking about that which you do not understand. You focus on the bottomline not context or the reality that it is mandatory spending that is causing the deficits increasing all because Congress and Presidents spent the SS trust fund money, borrowing it and never paying it back. You...

debatepolitics.com

Should We Repeal Trump Tax Cuts?

then stop talking about that which you do not understand. You focus on the bottomline not context or the reality that it is mandatory spending that is causing the deficits increasing all because Congress and Presidents spent the SS trust fund money, borrowing it and never paying it back. You...

debatepolitics.com

It really is a waste of time pointing out facts to a liberal, not claiming that you are a liberal, however FIT cuts have nothing to do with the deficit, rising interest rates, entitlement spending caused the deficits to increase during the Trump term, then COVID. I keep waiting for the left to blame Trump for the 2020 deficit when they promoted the economic shutdown to supposedly stop the spread of the virus. That is another liberal lie, they wanted the poor economic numbers to blame on Trump and that gave us the disaster we have in the WH right now, BIDEN!

 

[Conservative]

Did you not read my post(s)?
My point has NOTHING to do with the budget.
I am talking about the Fed and fixing the economy.

If you want to talk about the fed, then don't get involved in a thread talking about Trump tax cuts which had nothing to do with the deficit.

 

[The Work Outing]

Keep showing ignorance of reality, debt service doubled during the first three years of Trump due to 7 interest rate hikes, how is that Republican fault?

This argument holds zero weight as Trump appointed 5 of the 6 Fed Governors during his term.

Federal Reserve - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mandatory spending on entitlements increased per law during the Trump term, how is that Trump's fault? Do you believe Trump and Republicans put cost of living increases into the SS policy? Do you believe Trump and Republicans are responsible for interest rate hikes? Where did any education system teach you this kind of rhetoric and form your thought process?

And Trump NEVER even posted a balanced budget.

You cannot, rightfully, blame the left if the Rep POTUS does not even try to submit a balanced budget to Congress.

If the POTUS - be he Dem or Rep - is not even going to submit a balanced budget to Congress.
Than that POTUS is just as responsible for the deficit as anyone else.

And please save the tired excuse both parties use of 'he only submitted a big budget increase because he knew he could not get what he really wanted to pass'.
That is lame and holds NO water either.

Obama was responsible for his deficit increases.
As was Trump.
As is Biden.
Period.

 

[The Work Outing]

It really is a waste of time pointing out facts to a liberal, not claiming that you are a liberal, however FIT cuts have nothing to do with the deficit, rising interest rates, entitlement spending caused the deficits to increase during the Trump term, then COVID. I keep waiting for the left to blame Trump for the 2020 deficit when they promoted the economic shutdown to supposedly stop the spread of the virus. That is another liberal lie, they wanted the poor economic numbers to blame on Trump and that gave us the disaster we have in the WH right now, BIDEN!

And if you are not even going to read my posts when you make yours?
Then discussion with you on this is TOTALLY pointless.

As for me being a liberal?
Ron Paul is my macroeconomic, budget, Fed and foreign policy hero.
Now take a wild guess if I am a liberal or not?

Bye now.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The ignorance from the left on taxes shows that reality. You going to tell us how allowing people to keep more of what they earn benefits liberalism?

Since you’re resorting to lying, I said the economy.

 

[Conservative]

This argument holds zero weight as Trump appointed 5 of the 6 Fed Governors during his term.

Federal Reserve - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And Trump NEVER even posted a balanced budget.

You cannot, rightfully, blame the left if the Rep POTUS does not even try to submit a balanced budget to Congress.

If the POTUS - be he Dem or Rep - is not even going to submit a balanced budget to Congress.
Than that POTUS is just as responsible for the deficit as anyone else.

And please save the tired excuse both parties use of 'he only submitted a big budget increase because he knew he could not get what he really wanted to pass'.
That is lame and holds NO water either.

Obama was responsible for his deficit increases.
As was Trump.
As is Biden.
Period.

Trump cut the Executive Branch budget and generated economic polices that grew federal, state, and local revenue, that is reality and what tax cuts do for a private sector economy. Class envy, jealousy permeate throughout the liberal ideology as they indoctrinate good people out of economic ignorance.

 

[Conservative]

Since you’re resorting to lying, I said the economy.

The economy is more than federal, it is also state and local. FIT cuts put more money into the pockets of the consumer who used that money to increase employment and boost state and local revenue through spending. I don't lie, I post facts, logic, and common sense. Liberals lie promoting massive gov't and dependence

 

[ttwtt78640]

Since FIT and CIT cuts lead to economic activity and revenue growth, yes I never have a problem with the gov't cutting tax rates. What is ignored here is the effect on FIT cuts on state and local tax revenue, all benefiting the community and hurting the liberal elites

Nope, what is ignored (by you) is that federal spending still exceeded federal revenue.