Should we make our police departments look like the communities they serve?

[blackjack50]

I think they should be policed by people that live there. Community policing works better than the "us vs them" model we see now.

Cops that know the local mentally challenged guy are much less likely to kill him for brandishing a cake knife, for instance.

They are. Most departments require you live within their borders. Unless you mean people recruited from within that bad section of town. In that case, you need to consider that most people wouldn't pass the background check. Or the credit check. Or the educational requirements. Believe it or not, most departments have very strict standards on applying. And it is a difficult process to get all the ducks in a row.

Personally? I wouldn't relax hiring standards. I would want to create a longer training program after years were spent developing a quality program. But that isn't economically possible for cash strapped departments. They can't pay quality candidates enough. Especially when you are talking about a lifetime of sacrifice of ball games, anniversaries, holidays, first steps, and everything in between.

I know an officer who just lost a son to a car accident. He wishes he didn't become a cop because he would have had more time with his son. If that doesn't make it home...nothing will.

It is a very difficult job, and we should focus on understanding how to attract the best candidates who are willing to sacrifice all of the above and more...for crappy pay and an extreme sense of accomplishment. And we need to weed out the guys who want to look cool. Color doesn't mean crap. Heart does.

 

[Orly?]

Well, since you brought it up, ima say those of African descent may very well have an advantage in the "split second decision" arena.

I am convinced IQ variance has more to do with what's being tested for. Geniuses come in "flavors". Musical, mathematical, spatial, etc. Differently minded.

Groups who tend to test lower also happen to be those closest to our hunter gatherer roots. They live where animals still try to eat you.

So their genes probably select for reflexes and situational awareness over ability to balance a checkbook. Think athletes.

Absolutely, blacks in general have clear athletic advantages.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Whenever I think of police, I think of a certain phrase.

"To protect and serve"

 

[Orly?]

snip

I'm not going to play chase the source game on widely accepted science that you seem to deny because it violates your safe space.

 

[What if...?]

Absolutely, blacks in general have clear athletic advantages.

So its quite possible black officers would make fewer fatal errors than whites due to faster reflexes/better situational awareness, therefore making better cops by that metric.

Gotta be careful about single data point conclusions.

 

[blackjack50]

Well, since you brought it up, ima say those of African descent may very well have an advantage in the "split second decision" arena.

I am convinced IQ variance has more to do with what's being tested for. Geniuses come in "flavors". Musical, mathematical, spatial, etc. Differently minded.

Groups who tend to test lower also happen to be those closest to our hunter gatherer roots. They live where animals still try to eat you.

So their genes probably select for reflexes and situational awareness over ability to balance a checkbook. Think athletes.

Faster reflexes don't make better cops.

 

[Nilly]

I'm not going to play chase the source game on widely accepted science that you seem to deny because it violates your safe space.

Yeah because 'blacks are dumber than white people' is widely accepted science.

You do realize it's 2016 right? Not 1816. Jesus.

Absolutely, blacks in general have clear athletic advantages.

No they don't.

Certain black people from certain regions of Africa (West Africa mainly) have advantages when it comes to sprinting. This is because high levels of mosquito's in the area means they have adapted to have low hemoglobin (so they're less likely to contract malaria). This means they're less efficient at carrying oxygen around the bloodstream so to counter this, the body then develops more fast twitch muscle which is more explosive. It is Africans primarily from this area that were shipped to Jamaica during slavery which is why there are a lot of fast jamaican sprinters now.

Other black people form other areas do not share these same advantages. For example, Kenyan long distance runners win over 40% of long distance running competitions worldwide but this is due to a completely different advantage. You'll also find that these elite 'Kenyan' runners are all in fact from the same tribe, the Kalenjin, which makes them a small minority in Kenya (i.e. Blacks aren't generally good distance runners, neither are Kenyans generally good distance runners, but the Kalenjin are). These advantages/disadvantages have nothing to do with skin color, but instead very localized geographic and environmental differences. You cannot generalize 'black' or 'white' as seperate races with specific generalities.

For the sake of humanity, educate yourself.

 

[blackjack50]

So its quite possible black officers would make fewer fatal errors than whites due to faster reflexes/better situational awareness, therefore making better cops by that metric.

Gotta be careful about single data point conclusions.

Again. Faster reflexes don't make better cops.

 

[blackjack50]

Yeah because 'blacks are dumber than white people' is widely accepted science.

You do realize it's 2016 right? Not 1816. Jesus.



No they don't.

Certain black people from certain regions of Africa (West Africa mainly) have advantages when it comes to sprinting. This is because high levels of mosquito's in the area means they have adapted to have low hemoglobin (so they're less likely to contract malaria). This means they're less efficient at carrying oxygen around the bloodstream so to counter this, the body then develops more fast twitch muscle which is more explosive. It is Africans primarily from this area that were shipped to Jamaica during slavery which is why there are a lot of fast jamaican sprinters now.

Other black people form other areas do not share these same advantages. For example, Kenyan long distance runners are amazing at long distance but this is due to a completely different advantage. You'll also find that these elite Kenyan runners are all in fact from the same tribe, the Kalenjin, which makes them a small minority in Kenya (i.e. Blacks aren't generally good distance runners, neither are Kenyans generally good distance runners, but the Kalenjin are). These advantages/disadvantages have nothing to do with skin color, but instead very localized geographic differences. You cannot generalize 'black' or 'white' as seperate races with specific generalities.

For the sake of humanity, educate yourself.

My girlfriend got her degree in anthropology. I'm going to show her this post. She will love it.

 

[Orly?]

So its quite possible black officers would make fewer fatal errors than whites due to faster reflexes/better situational awareness, therefore making better cops by that metric.

Gotta be careful about single data point conclusions.

Yes, in general they would likely make better cops in that metric, which is one of the attributes you need to be a good cop, athletic ability.

But it is not the only applicable metric and is less important IMO than the competency to hold such positions of personal responsibility.

 

[Nilly]

My girlfriend got her degree in anthropology. I'm going to show her this post. She will love it.

If she's at all interested in sports/athletics I couldn't give anything but the highest praise to 'The Sports Gene' by David Epstein. Absolutely fascinating stuff, covers the two scenarios I put forward and much more with far more detail whilst still being incredibly accessible..

 

[What if...?]

Yes, in general they would likely make better cops in that metric, which is one of the attributes you need to be a good cop, athletic ability.

But it is not the only applicable metric and is less important IMO than the competency to hold such positions of personal responsibility.

If I expected everybody to be as intelligent as I i would be constantly disappointed. The twenty-thirty points difference between medians in your chart is less than my 50+ point difference from the "white" median.

So lots of people seem dim to me.

But lots of them have advantages I do not. I'm a nearsighted, asthmatic ectomorph with aspergers. It all balances out if we don't allow ourselves to feel superior to others.

 

[Orly?]

Certain black people from certain regions of Africa (West Africa mainly) have advantages when it comes to sprinting. This is because high levels of mosquito's in the area means they have adapted to have low hemoglobin (so they're less likely to contract malaria). This means they're less efficient at carrying oxygen around the bloodstream so to counter this, the body then develops more fast twitch muscle which is more explosive. It is Africans primarily from this area that were shipped to Jamaica during slavery which is why there are a lot of fast jamaican sprinters now.

Other black people form other areas do not share these same advantages. For example, Kenyan long distance runners win over 40% of long distance running competitions worldwide but this is due to a completely different advantage. You'll also find that these elite 'Kenyan' runners are all in fact from the same tribe, the Kalenjin, which makes them a small minority in Kenya (i.e. Blacks aren't generally good distance runners, neither are Kenyans generally good distance runners, but the Kalenjin are). These advantages/disadvantages have nothing to do with skin color, but instead very localized geographic and environmental differences. You cannot generalize 'black' or 'white' as seperate races with specific generalities.

For the sake of humanity, educate yourself.

So you tell me that blacks are not in general more athletically capable and then go on to tell me how blacks are the best in the world runners?

IIRC the way I understand it is that people in warmer climates developed more physical ability to survive while people from colder climates developed higher intelligence to survive long winters..

These are the same reasons for the development of different skin colors, people in hotter climates developed dark skin to better cope with sunlight while people in colder climates developed lighter skin to more efficiently produce vitamin D in less sun exposure..

It is extremely simple science and a great highlight of liberal fallacies..

 

[What if...?]

Again. Faster reflexes don't make better cops.

Doesn't hurt.

 

[Orly?]

If I expected everybody to be as intelligent as I i would be constantly disappointed. The twenty-thirty points difference between medians in your chart is less than my 50+ point difference from the "white" median.

So lots of people seem dim to me.

But lots of them have advantages I do not. I'm a nearsighted, asthmatic ectomorph with aspergers. It all balances out if we don't allow ourselves to feel superior to others.

So you claim an IQ of about 153?

And exactly, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

 

[What if...?]

So you tell me that blacks are not in general more athletically capable and then go on to tell me how blacks are the best in the world runners?

IIRC the way I understand it is that people in warmer climates developed more physical ability to survive while people from colder climates developed higher intelligence to survive long winters..

These are the same reasons for the development of different skin colors, people in hotter climates developed dark skin to better cope with sunlight while people in colder climates developed lighter skin to more efficiently produce vitamin D in less sun exposure..

It is extremely simple science and a great highlight of liberal fallacies..

Its actually the crucible of adoption of the sedentary agricultural/pastoral lifestyle that led to rapid brain changes. Pressures associated with living in groups above the magical 700 or so where everybody knows everybody else. Adaptation to the concepts of work for pay, rigid heirarchies etc.

More evolution in 12,000 years than the hundred thousand before

 

[Nilly]

So you tell me that blacks are not in general more athletically capable and then go on to tell me how blacks are the best in the world runners?

No I didn't. I'm explaining why people in specific regions developed certain advantages. These advantages cannot be generalized to all blacks, neither to all whites. It is as categorically false to say 'black people are faster sprinters' as it would be to say 'people with dark hair are faster sprinters'. There is simply nothing causal there.

IIRC the way I understand it is that people in warmer climates developed more physical ability to survive while people from colder climates developed higher intelligence to survive long winters..

Your understanding is wrong. I just pointed out an example of why it is wrong (physical advantages/disadvantages occur in very localized populations). As I said, educate yourself.

These are the same reasons for the development of different skin colors, people in hotter climates developed dark skin to better cope with sunlight while people in colder climates developed lighter skin to more efficiently produce vitamin D in less sun exposure..

Skin color is the very most superficial adaptation and yes it is due to the sun. However, that doesn't mean that other adaptations follow the same reasoning. Furthermore, the vast majority of adaptations are far too complex to be able to specifically imply causation through. Intelligence is far too complex to correlate with something as basic as skin color. It's also far too complex to quantify with one number.

It is extremely simple science and a great highlight of liberal fallacies..

It's not simple science. You just have a simple way of looking at it.

 

[Orly?]

It's not simple science. You just have a simple way of looking at it.

If you didn't have to complicate the crap out of it to try to get it to fit your agenda it would be much easier..

So say we take a group of 10k random black people in america and 10k random white people..

We have them each run 300 meters and take an IQ test..

You personally don't believe that the blacks average would win the race and the whites average would win the test?

 

[What if...?]

So you claim an IQ of about 153?

And exactly, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

That's what they said in the second grade when they tested me. Actually just top 1%, no actual number was calculable. Long story involving an obsession with brain teasers the summer between first and second grade. There was only one question of that type on the test I didn't already have on a 3x5 card at home. Aced all the other types too. They thought I was a one in a billion before the brain teaser thing came out. Then they decided they couldn't test me because I already knew all the answers to the brain teaser types of questions on IQ tests, and the Encyclopedia Brown style books didn't help either. I had basically studied for IQ tests by accident.

But like I said. Handicapped other ways, not particularly acquisitive. Except for skills. THOSE I collect.

 

[Nilly]

If you didn't have to complicate the crap out of it to try to get it to fit your agenda it would be much easier..

So say we take a group of 10k random black people in america and 10k random white people..

We have them each run 300 meters and take an IQ test..

You personally don't believe that the blacks average would win the race and the whites average would win the test?

Lol, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean I'm complicating the crap out of it. Once you start to take an intelligent approach to questions like 'are blacks dumber than whites' you'll find out that it's an incredible complicated and nuanced subject. In one of my posts I quoted the name of a book 'The Sports Gene'. This is a topic that people have dedicated their lives to researching and I personally have read a lot about. You can't just talk about it in terms of anecdotes and platitudes then insist your way is right.

As for the race/IQ test, then as long as confounding variables are taken care of then I don't believe that there would be a significant difference, no.

 

[What if...?]

No I didn't. I'm explaining why people in specific regions developed certain advantages. These advantages cannot be generalized to all blacks, neither to all whites. It is as categorically false to say 'black people are faster sprinters' as it would be to say 'people with dark hair are faster sprinters'. There is simply nothing causal there.



Your understanding is wrong. I just pointed out an example of why it is wrong (physical advantages/disadvantages occur in very localized populations). As I said, educate yourself.



Skin color is the very most superficial adaptation and yes it is due to the sun. However, that doesn't mean that other adaptations follow the same reasoning. Furthermore, the vast majority of adaptations are far too complex to be able to specifically imply causation through. Intelligence is far too complex to correlate with something as basic as skin color. It's also far too complex to quantify with one number.



It's not simple science. You just have a simple way of looking at it.

Unfortunately there is a superiority in Americans of African descent supposedly attributed to 400 years of selective breeding for size and strength.

Ugly, not PC, but probably accurate. Its likely that smart, competent male slaves were gelded, too. Selecting for docility and complacency too.

 

[countryboy]

I say 'No'.

At least not necessarily in the neighborhoods.

But I think in city-wide terms, the department should reflect the cultural diversity of the city at large.

Yes, cultural diversity is far more important than hiring qualified individuals.

 

[TurtleDude]

I wish there was an other answer

uniformed police patrols are not necessarily best if the race of the community is reflected in the uniformed patrol. However, its real tough for white undercover cops to infiltrate black drug gangs-just as it would be tough for Irish-American cops to infiltrate the TRIAD or the Sicilian Mafia. in some cases-ethnicity CAN be a bonafide occupational requirement. so major city police departments should have officers who are able to work within the major ethnic groups in that city.

 

[Risky Thicket]

How would New York City like a police force comprised of officers from south Alabama? How would Slidell, Louisiana like a police force comprised of NYC police? How would Boulder like a police force comprised of officers from Macon, Georgia?

 

[Cardinal]

I think they should be policed by people that live there. Community policing works better than the "us vs them" model we see now.

Cops that know the local mentally challenged guy are much less likely to kill him for brandishing a cake knife, for instance.

Good in principle, but that can be tricky in practice. Police departments hire according to what comes out of the academy, not according to what comes out of the community. So let's say, for the sake of argument that you have an extremely low income community with a low education level. That community has now produced the law enforcement policing it. That doesn't sound all that great to me.