Should we make our police departments look like the communities they serve?

[Paleocon]

If an area is predominately black it will be more likely that a black is hired because there are more of them, statistics...

But that does not mean that a white should not be hired because he is white.. Let the statistics and free competition sort it out rather than tr to regulate it to make it the way you think it should be.

Why not?

 

[Orly?]

1. This thread demonstrates everything that's wrong with right-liberalism.

2. If you try to use the language of the left against it (i.e. calling Dems racist) you've already lost.

1. What exactly do you mean by right-liberalism or did you mean right-libetarainism?

2. Why? It is the truth..

 

[Bodi]

The poeple that live in the community should be the ones policing it... no outsiders.

 

[Paleocon]

1. What exactly do you mean by right-liberalism or did you mean right-libetarainism?

I mean right-wing liberalism. e.g. the GOP

2. Why? It is the truth..

The language of the left is full of equivocations and all manner of fallacies. It is near impossible to express truth with it.

 

[Nilly]

I am sure to racist the issue of race does matter when it comes to hiring.But race is irrelevant when it comes to hiring.

But race of our institutions is absolutely relevant when it does not match the race of the demographic.

Again, if we assume that each race is equally proficient at a task such as policing (or any role, really), and the society is non-racist (i.e. equal opportunity/obstacles for people of each race to get to those positions) then statistically we should see the demographic of our institutions match the demographics of the populace.

If they do not match (within certain error bounds) then we can surmise that there is a factor outside of qualifications (remember, we already assumed that people of different races are equally good at policing) that is skewing the institutions demographic.

 

[Orly?]

Consider this: If police should be picked from the community, and
1. we assume there are no differences in policing ability between races,

2. then it would make sense that given a non-racist society, the demographics of the police force would match the demographic of the area (within 2 sigma or so).

3. It the above assumptions are correct,

4. then if it were the case that a majority black area were being policed by a majority white police force,

5. then it could be inferred that the police application process in that area is biased towards white people.

Here is why...

1. This assumption is incorrect, blacks have lower IQs on average therefore a lower percent of them meet the policing ability..

2. Blacks have a tendency to absolutely HATE police. If a black man from a more ghetto community were to join the police force, or even express that he may want to, he will be ostracized by his peers and labled "one of them" "not a real black" and will be alienated from a lot of his past friends and possibly even family..
I would say much moreso among blacks than whites but I have scene this first hand in whites..

3. the assumptions are not correct..

4. Who says they all come from the local population?

5. if the assumptions are correct then this would be correct but they are not so it is not..

 

[Orly?]

These freaking morons...:doh

We spend all this time and energy trying to integrate communities and now Bernie and his crew want to segregate them again except now they're calling it "safe spaces" and other such trash.

To stir up tensions and divide the people ofcourse.. Liberal tactics 101..

 

[What if...?]

Here is why...

1. This assumption is incorrect, blacks have lower IQs on average therefore a lower percent of them meet the policing ability..

2. Blacks have a tendency to absolutely HATE police. If a black man from a more ghetto community were to join the police force, or even express that he may want to, he will be ostracized by his peers and labled "one of them" "not a real black" and will be alienated from a lot of his past friends and possibly even family..
I would say much moreso among blacks than whites but I have scene this first hand in whites..

3. the assumptions are not correct..

4. Who says they all come from the local population?

5. if the assumptions are correct then this would be correct but they are not so it is not..

IME most cops these days aren't the sharpest crayons in the box. So I'm not sure the test is that hard.

 

[Orly?]

The language of the left is full of equivocations and all manner of fallacies. It is near impossible to express truth with it.

Hmmm.. That's deep... I'd like a thread on this..

I think you are correct..

 

[Orly?]

Again, if we assume that each race is equally proficient at a task such as policing (or any role, really)

This is where you screw the pooch because you are assuming things that are not true..

 

[radcen]

In a non-racist society the issue of race is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the police officers policing the community only represent 1,2,3 or 10 percent of the community.

Sounds great. Too bad we live in a racist society.

So much for that. What's Plan B?

 

[Orly?]

IME most cops these days aren't the sharpest crayons in the box. So I'm not sure the test is that hard.

Ok so how high of n IQ do you think would be acceptable/necessary?

70? 80? 90?

 

[Nilly]

Here is why...

1. This assumption is incorrect, blacks have lower IQs on average therefore a lower percent of them meet the policing ability..

2. Blacks have a tendency to absolutely HATE police. If a black man from a more ghetto community were to join the police force, or even express that he may want to, he will be ostracized by his peers and labled "one of them" "not a real black" and will be alienated from a lot of his past friends and possibly even family..
I would say much moreso among blacks than whites but I have scene this first hand in whites..

3. the assumptions are not correct..

4. Who says they all come from the local population?

5. if the assumptions are correct then this would be correct but they are not so it is not..

1. Not even going to dignify this one with a response.

2. I touched up on this in my final paragraph, blacks might only apply to the police at a 10% rate that white people do. If that is the case, then why is that the case, and if it is the case that black people hate police (not something I disagree with) then we need to be looking into how we can remedy this. It's a different issue.

3. That's why I made sure to label them assumptions and not facts.

4. I ask the exact same question in my first paragraph, and it addresses the deeper question at hand here. Should police always be representative of their community? Should rich areas be policed by rich people? New York policed by New Yorkers? Is this only a solution for specific areas with specific types of crime? That's the nuance I'm trying to get at.

5. In an ideal world the assumptions would be correct, but we don't live in an ideal world, and I addressed potential issues with my assumptions in my post. In the case where an assumption is incorrect, we should ask why it is incorrect and how that can be fixed.

This is where you screw the pooch because you are assuming things that are not true..

Please quantify this. I'm curious that you think black people are worse cops.

 

[radcen]

I think that there is a legitimate value in having people 'from' a community be police officers in that community because they are familiar with some of the people and so forth. I don't think that we have to affirmative action a department though.
As far as the militarization I do think police departments are over militarized in many areas.

I cannot go for quotas under any circumstances, but I would be fine with giving first shot to locals... provided minimum standards are maintained and enforced.

 

[Orly?]

1. Not even going to dignify this one with a response.

Do you deny this fact?

It is your downfall, assuming something contrary to proven science..

 

[Mach]

There is a clear downside to white police in some black communities, there would have to be MORE of a downside to community members policing to make it not attractive.

Changing standards to get more people form that community policing would be entirely worth a try. I suspect after some number of years, and with as you note, wider community acceptance, the standards could be marched up.

Nothing wrong with adjusting standards to meet a larger objective. Every business I've been a part of, or ran myself, does this on a regular basis. All that outsourcing to india, you think its to better QUALIFIED people?

Besides, I think understanding and being able to empathize with the community, is apparently a very important qualification...surely they would get higher on this.

 

[What if...?]

Ok so how high of n IQ do you think would be acceptable/necessary?

70? 80? 90?

I think its more about personality/character than IQ.

Andy Taylor didn't need a gun. Everybody knew he had everybody's best interest at heart. So they cooperated with him without question.

I know its fiction, but I'm old enough to remember when policing was much more about earned respect than the demanded-under-penalty-of-arrest-or physical-harm model we have now.

 

[Nilly]

Do you deny this fact?

It is your downfall, assuming something contrary to proven science..

From a random graph on the internet? Yes.

When you come back with reputable, causal studies that take into account educational differences, nutritional differences, IQ as a measure of intelligence, IQ as a measure of policing ability, hedetarianist vs environmentalist confounding factors etc etc etc, then I will take it seriously.

Furthermore, I also expect such a claim to be accompanied with a well communicated understanding that races are genetically diverse within themselves, and two 'white' races can be more different from each other than two 'black' races (and combinations therein).

Up until then, I will continue to assume that there are no significant differences in policing ability between races.

 

[Orly?]

-snip-

Please do some research and educate yourself on the subject, for humanity's sake..

 

[Orly?]

1. I think its more about personality/character than IQ.

2. Andy Taylor didn't need a gun. Everybody knew he had everybody's best interest at heart. So they cooperated with him without question.

I know its fiction, but I'm old enough to remember when policing was much more about earned respect than the demanded-under-penalty-of-arrest-or physical-harm model we have now.

1. I'm not saying they have to be super smart but must be quite competent and capable of making important split second decisions.

2. In a perfect world, I wish it was so..

 

[Nilly]

Please do some research and educate yourself on the subject, for humanity's sake..

Lol. So, all you have is a random internet graph. :lamo

I have done research on this, plenty of it, and I can tell you that given that neither race nor intelligence are even really quantifiable (you certainly can't distill them down to one number), there are no conclusive studies that suggest a difference in intelligence between races.

Come back and spew your racist BS when you have actual studies to back it up, please.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Neighborhood policing died when the suburbs expanded into what we have today.

The majority of policing today is done through a windshield and a radio.

 

[What if...?]

1. I'm not saying they have to be super smart but must be quite competent and capable of making important split second decisions.

2. In a perfect world, I wish it was so..

Well, since you brought it up, ima say those of African descent may very well have an advantage in the "split second decision" arena.

I am convinced IQ variance has more to do with what's being tested for. Geniuses come in "flavors". Musical, mathematical, spatial, etc. Differently minded.

Groups who tend to test lower also happen to be those closest to our hunter gatherer roots. They live where animals still try to eat you.

So their genes probably select for reflexes and situational awareness over ability to balance a checkbook. Think athletes.

 

[Goshin]

No, I think we should do away with the police entirely.



Things will sort themselves out in a few weeks, and we can revisit the issue.

 

[What if...?]

From a random graph on the internet? Yes.

When you come back with reputable, causal studies that take into account educational differences, nutritional differences, IQ as a measure of intelligence, IQ as a measure of policing ability, hedetarianist vs environmentalist confounding factors etc etc etc, then I will take it seriously.

Furthermore, I also expect such a claim to be accompanied with a well communicated understanding that races are genetically diverse within themselves, and two 'white' races can be more different from each other than two 'black' races (and combinations therein).

Up until then, I will continue to assume that there are no significant differences in policing ability between races.

I always find it interesting that the focus goes to which race is smarter while completely ignoring the MASSIVE differences between top IQs and the median.

A full fifty percent.

And those poor folks on the other side of the bell curve? Heaven help them.