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Should Trangender Men Be Allowed To Play in Women's Sports?

Should Men be allowed to participate in women's sports?

  • Total voters
    52
Bodi

Bodi

Just waiting for my set...
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I say "Hell No!"

I was watching the Renee' Richards Original Story on ESPN this morning and it kinda pissed me off. "She" is a man.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I say "Hell No!"

I was watching the Renee' Richards Original Story on ESPN this morning and it kinda pissed me off. "She" is a man.
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Why no option for don't know, don't care?
 
Redress said:
But the two most powerful factors in politics today is apathy and ignorance.
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I am not interested in whatever it is you are talking about...
 
No. They still have the physical musculature and development of a male which would give them an undue advantage in most events competing with women.
 
It should be assessed on a case by case basis, so they can compete if they wouldn't have an unfair advantage, and they should be regularly monitored to ensure their hormone levels remain similar to that of women.
 
spud_meister said:
It should be assessed on a case by case basis, so they can compete if they wouldn't have an unfair advantage, and they should be regularly monitored to ensure their hormone levels remain similar to that of women.
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How would this be considered "equitable?" Don't you think every transgendered male-to-female who wanted to compete in sports would challenge this as an equal rights violation?

This isn't like testing for drugs or steroids. The individuals, once altered, have the legal right to be considered females. They could point out women in other sports (like this Rhonda Rousy we keep hearing about) who are allowed to participate despite their physical advantages.
 
Jesse Booth said:
I refuse to vote as I am not allowed to vote for every option simultaneously.
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is that being "transpollstered"? :mrgreen:

in some sports trans would have an unfair advantage. in some sports they would not. like rifle shooting or trap shooting or perhaps diving
 
Other was not an option.


AND I know why, lol. Thought you were clever, by forcing us all into one or the other, and by definition, into equality or not.



But now I am going to blow your mind. Males and females are not equal, and never, ever will be.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I say "Hell No!"

I was watching the Renee' Richards Original Story on ESPN this morning and it kinda pissed me off. "She" is a man.
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Here's the way I understand it. If a boy, undergoes hormone therapy before his testosterone begins (before puberty begins) to make him into a boy, then he/she could potentially compete with girls. However, once puberty begins, and the boy begins to become a boy, they will never be anything else but a boy from a physical aspect as far as sports competition is concerned. They can take hormones to grow breasts or have gender reassignment surgery, but the athletic parts of the body cannot be changed on a DNA level once they go through puberty.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Here's the way I understand it. If a boy, undergoes hormone therapy before his testosterone begins (before puberty begins) to make him into a boy, then he/she could potentially compete with girls. However, once puberty begins, and the boy begins to become a boy, they will never be anything else but a boy from a physical aspect as far as sports competition is concerned. They can take hormones to grow breasts or have gender reassignment surgery, but the athletic parts of the body cannot be changed on a DNA level once they go through puberty.
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Interesting... makes sense although in all honesty I had not thought of that. Thanks...
 
KevinKohler said:
Other was not an option.


AND I know why, lol. Thought you were clever, by forcing us all into one or the other, and by definition, into equality or not.



But now I am going to blow your mind. Males and females are not equal, and never, ever will be.
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That is one way to not answer a simple question...
 
Captain Adverse said:
How would this be considered "equitable?"
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I didn't say it was equitable. Sporting competitions need to remain fair to all involved, and allowing a trans woman who still has the muscular density of a man to compete against cis-women, or trans women who've completed HRT simply isn't fair.

Don't you think every transgendered male-to-female who wanted to compete in sports would challenge this as an equal rights violation?
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Probably, but it's more important sporting competition remain as fair as possible to all competitors.

This isn't like testing for drugs or steroids. The individuals, once altered, have the legal right to be considered females. They could point out women in other sports (like this Rhonda Rousy we keep hearing about) who are allowed to participate despite their physical advantages.
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Right, and some of the physical advantages men can have, such as greater height, would remain, but allowing them to compete with advantages that can be manipulated by hormone therapy isn't fair to the other competitors who are barred from using hormones to grant themselves an advantage.


The goal of gender reassignment is to make the person as much like the cis-gender as possible. If an aspect of a person falls outside of biological norms for their gender, because of the process of gender reassignment, and this difference gives them an advantage in sport, then they shouldn't be allowed to compete because it's not fair to the other athletes.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Here's the way I understand it. If a boy, undergoes hormone therapy before his testosterone begins (before puberty begins) to make him into a boy, then he/she could potentially compete with girls. However, once puberty begins, and the boy begins to become a boy, they will never be anything else but a boy from a physical aspect as far as sports competition is concerned. They can take hormones to grow breasts or have gender reassignment surgery, but the athletic parts of the body cannot be changed on a DNA level once they go through puberty.
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Do you have an example of a genetic difference that might give a trans woman who has completed hormone therapy an advantage that no cis-woman could ever have?
 
I'm not sure, I guess it depends on the sport. A lot of sports go by weight class within the given sex, so if a trans person conforms to the weight class then what's the problem?

So what if they have more musculature? There are a lot of women (by sex) who are more muscular than men, but meet the weight class / category requirements of their sport. Look at the Olympics... even among the sexes, there are vast differences between the different resources and values of the different countries. Eastern European and Russian female athletes? Sometimes they're built like oxen. Then you have women from east Asia who are more petite. You wouldn't pit the petit ones against the oxen ones, because they're not the same weight class / category.

I don't think it's wrong to say that there are fundamental differences between men and women when it comes to bodily attributes, from a systemic viewpoint. As a general rule women have more lower body stamina and men have more upper body stamina... but if that's the case, then a woman transitioning to being a man would be at an anatomical disadvantage in upper body sports. But who cares? If "he" wants to compete with the other men then go for it. Likewise if a trans woman with stronger upper body goes into an upper body sport against other women, "she" will be put into the appropriate weight class.

I think ideally there would be a third gender class in sports, for people who do not fit neatly into these gender boxes, but that's a long way off. In the mean time I'm guessing there would adjustments to the class / category structure of each gender, if trans athletes become widespread.
 
If transgendered people posed a noticeable dominance, i still wouldn't give half a ****.

As it is, basketball and football have ****loads of black people, should we start banning them because of some supposed "advantage" ? No, who cares? Sports were never fair. Grow up already.
 
TurtleDude said:
uh that's not exactly accurate.
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Well, not absolutely, I probably should've qualified the statement, but the genetics that make me 6'5 might mean I have the potential to be good at basketball, but the fact I sit on my arse all day means I'm not. Genetics can enhance athletic potential, but it's training that makes the biggest difference.
 
spud_meister said:
Do you have an example of a genetic difference that might give a trans woman who has completed hormone therapy an advantage that no cis-woman could ever have?
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Musculoskeletal structure/strength and weight distribution.

Here's a simple but very vivid test of the physical difference between a man and a woman (or trans woman and a natural born woman) - have both a man and a woman walk up to a wall, place their hands behind their backs, lean over keeping their legs straight, and their backs at a 90 degree angle to the wall with their heads against the wall as their only means of support - a perfect right angle to the wall. Then tell them to stand up straight. The woman will be able to do so immediately, because her weight distribution and body strength is lower than the male's, and the man will not be able to do so without letting go with his hands to swing them or push off, because his weight distribution and body strength are in his upper body.

Try it - if you've all been drinking it's even more fun.
 
spud_meister said:
Well, not absolutely, I probably should've qualified the statement, but the genetics that make me 6'5 might mean I have the potential to be good at basketball, but the fact I sit on my arse all day means I'm not. Genetics can enhance athletic potential, but it's training that makes the biggest difference.
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actually as an elite level coach who currently has two athletes ranked in the top ten of ongoing selection matches for the RIO olympics-once you get to the world class level, its innate talent that makes the difference. everyone at that level is well trained-it comes down to (in some sports) genetics others "nerves" which is also talent. but you are correct-lots of people never make it to the elite level because they don't have the desire, the ability (money, facilities, support) or guidance to train properly
 
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