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Should the USA default?

Should the USA default?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 13.8%
  • No

    Votes: 21 72.4%
  • It's not possible anyways

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    29

RabidAlpaca

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A U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing Lehman

I say print 20 trillion dollars, pay the debt and go on. :cool:
What do you think?

What benefit could we possibly get from that? All it would do is destroy our credit and devalue our currency. It's not like you'd be able to hide that, we'd be essentially telling our creditors "Hey, I'm just going to make up some **** and give it to you. We're cool, right?". It'd be like throwing our record keeping books into the river and saying "DEBT FREE BABY!"

The markets would react very wildly to such a decision and the value of the dollar would plummet, that's not even taking into account the actual devaluation by an increase in the money supply.

It also would teach our politicians they can do whatever the hell they want. We need to balance the budget and start using sound economic policies like "Hey, maybe we shouldn't spend more than our income."
 

Canell

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It also would teach our politicians they can do whatever the hell they want. We need to balance the budget and start using sound economic policies like "Hey, maybe we shouldn't spend more than our income."

What would you suggest paying off the current 17 trillion dollars debt? Taxes, sell off, privatization, what? :)
 

clownboy

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What would you suggest paying off the current 17 trillion dollars debt? Taxes, sell off, privatization, what? :)

How much can we get for Puerto Rico, Guam and the US Virgin Islands? If Mexico had any money these days we could sell them SoCal. :mrgreen:
 

RabidAlpaca

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What would you suggest paying off the current 17 trillion dollars debt? Taxes, sell off, privatization, what? :)
Probably a lot of everything, except printing. Increasing the money supply without a proportional increase in goods and services will cause a devaluation of the dollar, which ****s every single one of us. As it stands, the fed is inflating away 2-4% of your savings a year, which with compound interest REALLY works against you. Meaning you have to average 2-4% a year on an investment just to break even. Considering the rates for CD's right now are like 1%, it's a sham.

Top that off with the fact that the fed will loan to banks at near 0% interest (lately far less than 1%), so that those banks can take that very same money and reloan it out to us citizens at several percent. It's free money for them with no risk.

We need to focus on the fundamentals. Cut spending below our budget so that we can use the excess to start paying off the debt. We don't necessarily have to pay it off tomorrow. Any decrease of the deficit at all is progress. Personally I'd be for a constitutional amendment saying that if congress doesn't stay under budget for a fiscal year they all get recalled.
 

specklebang

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Selling off some national resources isn't a terrible idea. I'm pretty sure we could sell the Grand Canyon for several trillion. So now it belongs to a Chinese consortium. So what? They still have to leave it here. They'll build hotels, casinos, brothels, restaurants, cat rescues and toy stores. They'll hire Americans to staff these, providing jobs.

Not that we are able to do anything logical like that. Quite the contrary. We must spend more than we make ort the world can't expand. That 17T is in use even as we speak, flowing from country A to country B. As we spend more, there is more to spend. If we raise taxes and cut spending, the world's economy will slow to a crawl.
 

DaveFagan

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A U.S. Default Seen as Catastrophe Dwarfing LehmanI say print 20 trillion dollars, pay the debt and go on. :cool:What do you think?
Sounds good, but those new $100 dollar bills are still the equivalent of negotiable checks. We are going to pay now or pay later or perhaps, default later. After all, the Federal Reserve Corporation is a Corporation and can file bankruptcy. I think the ripple effects would be more comparable to tidal wave effects worldwide, especially as regards OIL. Bought and sold in US Dollars and we have an agreement with Saudi Arabia to keep it that way. You back your fiat money with gold, silver, assets or military might.
 

rathi

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The fact that this question is even being asked is completely unacceptable. No matter what your petty political bull**** it is, its NEVER worth destroying the world economy.
 

Dittohead not!

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No one is asking for the whole 17 trillion right now. What we have to do is pay the current expenses of government. Defaulting on current bills would devalue the dollar, increase the interest on existing debt, and put the stock market into a dive that would make 2008 look like a boom year.

Surely, not even the current Congress is that stupid, is it?

Is it?... oh, I hope not.
 

Gimmesometruth

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No one is asking for the whole 17 trillion right now. What we have to do is pay the current expenses of government. Defaulting on current bills would devalue the dollar, increase the interest on existing debt, and put the stock market into a dive that would make 2008 look like a boom year.

Surely, not even the current Congress is that stupid, is it?

Is it?... oh, I hope not.
Pfft......what do you know?

Nothing I tell you!

You need to to get learned by a cow doctor!

“I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets,”
 

Helix

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Canell

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Increasing the money supply without a proportional increase in goods and services will cause a devaluation of the dollar...

Not really. :) The USA has been exporting dollars for decades. ;)
 

SBu

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How much can we get for Puerto Rico, Guam and the US Virgin Islands? If Mexico had any money these days we could sell them SoCal. :mrgreen:

Wow, actually not a bad idea. I'd keep Guam though.
 

RabidAlpaca

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Not really. :) The USA has been exporting dollars for decades. ;)

.....Seriously? You really think we've been handing out 20 trillion? The US government has been intentionally inflating our currency for almost a hundred years. Are you denying that fact?
 

Canell

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.....Seriously? You really think we've been handing out 20 trillion?

No, those 17 trillion are just the public debt of the U.S. . What does this to do with the "dollar export"?

The US government has been intentionally inflating our currency for almost a hundred years. Are you denying that fact?

The FED, to be precise. :)
No, I'm not. Let's see if they can stick to their guns at their 100-th anniversary (Christmas 2013).
 

Graffias

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The markets would react very wildly to such a decision and the value of the dollar would plummet, that's not even taking into account the actual devaluation by an increase in the money supply.

Letting the dollar plummet will increase U.S exports. When the U.S. has a weak currency, this means foreigners get more U.S. goods cheaper. It also will create jobs. A few years ago when the dollar was very weak, European car makers were scrambling to open plants and move operations to the US, because having their costs based in Euros, but selling a product to the US market in dollars, was killing them. They wanted to move some manufacturing to the US so as to have costs based in dollars, so they could then feed the US market, but also export from the US to other countries.
 
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Kobie

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What would you suggest paying off the current 17 trillion dollars debt? Taxes, sell off, privatization, what? :)

Explain to me why we have to pay off that debt now.
 

RabidAlpaca

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Letting the dollar plummet will increase U.S exports. When the U.S. has a weak currency, this means foreigners get more U.S. goods cheaper. It also will create jobs. A few years ago when the dollar was very weak, European car makers were scrambling to open plants and move operations to the US, because having their costs based in Euros, but selling a product to the US market in dollars, was killing them. They wanted to move some manufacturing to the US so as to have costs based in dollars, so they could then feed the US market, but also export from the US to other countries.

It's a global market, haas. You're trying to inflate people into poverty. Name one country that has a really weak currency but is really prosperous. Go ahead I'll wait.

Mexico perhaps?
 

Kobie

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Personally I'd be for a constitutional amendment saying that if congress doesn't stay under budget for a fiscal year they all get recalled.

While I do admire the sentiment behind this idea, it would be an unworkable sh*tshow that would completely take any stimulus in the face of economic crisis off the table, and that's just an awful idea.
 

Kobie

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You back your fiat money with gold, silver, assets or military might.

No, you back your fiat money (or your hard money) with TRUST. Trust that the nation in question will continue to service its debt, trust that the commodities markets won't take a colossal deuce on what proponents of hard money think is actual currency.

Gold and silver are just shinies. There are FAR more valuable commodities in the world than those shiny metals.
 

Kobie

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Oh, this Ted Yoho guy is a peach by the way. Another pig-ignorant jackass and a product of gerrymandering.
 

Graffias

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It's a global market, haas. You're trying to inflate people into poverty. Name one country that has a really weak currency but is really prosperous. Go ahead I'll wait.

Mexico perhaps?

I'm just explaining that having a weak currency isn't always a bad thing. A default may affect the economy in other ways, but a devalued dollar is not a big deal.
 

Kobie

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I'm just explaining that having a weak currency isn't always a bad thing. A default may affect the economy in other ways, but a devalued dollar is not a big deal.

Especially considering that the dollar's value is only relevant in comparison to other currencies. And while those rates fluctuate (remember when the American dollar used to be worth almost double the Canadian dollar?), it's still the most trusted currency in the world and there's nothing on the horizon to indicate that will change. Even default. However, default would start an extreme devaluation process that could eventually change that, depending on how other global currencies respond.
 
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