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Should the US lower the voting age to 16?

Should the voting age in the US be lowered to the age of 16?

  • yes

    Votes: 10 25.6%
  • no

    Votes: 29 74.4%

  • Total voters
    39
H

hipsterdufus

This is not an issue that I've pondered a lot until recently, but I was reminded by some of my students that "taxation without representation" is a huge issue for 16 and 17 year olds who pay taxes on their earnings, but do not have the right to vote.

There is a compelling argument to lower the voting age to 16 at the following website with a more detailed explanation than I've provided here:

Top Ten Reasons to Lower the Voting Age

"no right is more precious in a free country than that of having a choice in the election of those who make the laws under which…we must live. Other rights, even the most basic, are illusory if the right to vote is undermined."

1. Youth suffer under a double standard of having adult responsibilities but not rights
2. Youth pay taxes, live under our laws, they should have the vote
3. Politicians will represent their interests if youth can vote
4. Youth have a unique perspective, they'll never have those experiences again
5. 16 is a better age to introduce voting than 18; 16 year olds are stationary
6. Lowering the Voting Age will increase voter turnout
7. If we let stupid adults vote, why not let smart youth vote?
8. Youth will vote well
9. There are no wrong votes
10. Lowering the voting age will provide an intrinsic benefit to the lives of youth
http://www.youthrights.org/vote10.shtml
 

Deegan

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No, I don't think so. While there might be some mature, responsible 16 year old people out there, I would say the majority are just not old enough to make an informed decision, heck.....I know some 30 year olds that should refrain from voting.:roll:
 

hiker

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I voted no, but I'm really on the fence. The fact that so few young people vote leads me to conclude that it wouldn't make much of a difference in an election outcome.
 

Deegan

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hiker said:
I voted no, but I'm really on the fence. The fact that so few young people vote leads me to conclude that it wouldn't make much of a difference in an election outcome.

Good point, I had not thought about that.
 

LeftyHenry

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I voted yes because I think It'll give give a whole new perspective on the out come of elections. Besides, I think if you're old enough to think you're old enough to vote
 

debate_junkie

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hipsterdufus said:
This is not an issue that I've pondered a lot until recently, but I was reminded by some of my students that "taxation without representation" is a huge issue for 16 and 17 year olds who pay taxes on their earnings, but do not have the right to vote.

There is a compelling argument to lower the voting age to 16 at the following website with a more detailed explanation than I've provided here:



http://www.youthrights.org/vote10.shtml
A good thing to ponder.. however.. there are many 14 and 15 year olds who also work part time jobs while going to school. The same argument for a 16 year old to vote, could also be said for them. Now, if the legislature would be willing to exempt those under a proposed 16 year old voting law from taxes... it would then become fair, in my opinion. But, I don't see the legislature ever turning down tax money.. so I guess my point becomes moot, eh?
 
H

hipsterdufus

Deegan said:
No, I don't think so. While there might be some mature, responsible 16 year old people out there, I would say the majority are just not old enough to make an informed decision, heck.....I know some 30 year olds that should refrain from voting.:roll:
That's part of the argument FOR letting 16 year olds vote too. We have no test for voter acumen.

I'll confess that I've pulled a lever for people I knew little or nothing about.
 
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H

hipsterdufus

hiker said:
I voted no, but I'm really on the fence. The fact that so few young people vote leads me to conclude that it wouldn't make much of a difference in an election outcome.
I'm not sure what your talking about here. These are the stats I have.

Youth voting surged by 11 percentage points in 2004. In presidential election years between 1972 and 2000, the turnout rate had declined by 16 percentage points among young citizens before rebounding by 11 percentage points in the 2004 election. It remains to be seen if the increase in youth turnout in 2004 is part of a new trend or is instead a spike in youth electoral participation like the 1992 election.

In 2004, 47% of 18-24 year old citizens voted, 66% of citizens 25 and older voted.

Single young people, particularly women, are more likely to vote than married young people. The turnout among single women age 18-24 led the way and increased by 12 percentage points, or about one third, since 2000.
http://www.civicyouth.org/quick/youth_voting.htm
 

FinnMacCool

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I can speak for myself that I would be able to make an informed decision in an election. I cannot however speak for my fellow 16 year olds. You would be surprised how ****ed up they are. I was debating with this kid who was a "conservative" and the convo went sorta like this

Me: Why are we in Iraq?
Joe: Cause they hit us we had to hit them back.
Me: Whose them?
Joe: Those people in the middle east.
Me: What are you talking about? Terroists hit us and they happen to be from the middle east but not all from the middle east are terroists.
Joe: <pffft> they're all the same.

90% of american teenagers no absolutely nothing about politics. The other 10% percent are too drugged up to care. You would be surpised how many of them are willing to nuke the middle east. The only liberal posistions they would support is pro-abortion (so when they get someone pregnant they won't have to deal with the baby) and pot legalization (so they can get drugs).
HOWEVER its the same thing with adults so I don't see any reason why they shouldn't have to vote.
 

hiker

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hipsterdufus said:
I'm not sure what your talking about here. These are the stats I have.
The candidates for president have never payed more than lip-service to the youth of America and the concerns of younger people. The investor class, middle class, and esp. seniors are the mostly age-categorized groups that get the attention of politicians in Washington. If the youth vote really counted for much, politicians would be tripping over themselves trying to get 20-year-olds to vote for them.

And another factor being that younger people in this country don't tend to vote as a block for either party, or as single-issue voters. Probably somewhere along a 50-50, give or take, split for either party nationwide, same as the general electorate. So by playing to younger voters, the most a mainstream presidential candidate could hope for would be one-half of the votes of a demographic that, despite increases you pointed out in recent years, is still a very small amount of overall votes. That's enough to do an interview or two for MTV, and maybe play a saxophone so people think you're hip, but not enough of a difference for serious consideration when it comes to making promises and policy.
 

LaMidRighter

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hipsterdufus said:
That's part of the argument FOR letting 16 year olds vote too. We have no test for voter acumen.
We should. I don't mind people who lean differently than myself in politics, but I think people voting on the person who will enact policy should at least know a few really basic things about:
- Current events
- How the three branches make law
- The constitution and role of government

I'll confess that I've pulled a lever for people I knew little or nothing about.
I think we all have, sometimes they aren't as scary as the one you voted against and knew well.
 

Navy Pride

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I voted no........Liberal teachers in high school have a captive audience and they try and put their political beliefs on the children they are suppose to be teaching math for example........It might sway there vote.......As they grow older they become wiser and not so easily influenced and once they get married and start a family they usually become much more moderate and conservative and they become better educated on the political issues.............
 

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I voted no........Liberal teachers in high school have a captive audience and they try and put their political beliefs on the children they are suppose to be teaching math for example........
Your so full of crap its funny. First of all, I don't know any teachers that try to force their own beliefs on other people except for those in Kellenberg Memorial High (home of the chirstian right) where I used to go to. But even then, the kids just acted like ****ing jackasses and they didn't hear any of it. The fact is kids don't give a **** about political beliefs. They'd probably vote for Ralph Nader just caues they'd think its funny if he won.

Another point, from my own personal experience I've known must kids in my school want to ****ing nuke the middle east. How liberal is that?

As they grow older they become wiser and not so easily influenced and once they get married and start a family they usually become much more moderate and conservative and they become better educated on the political issues.............
Not so easily influenced? Thats rich coming from you. From a person who hangs on the every word of Limbaugh and that racist bastard Savage. Are you educated?

You are a testament to my belief that age doesn't= wisdom.
 

Navy Pride

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Your so full of **** its funny. First of all, I don't know any teachers that try to force their own beliefs on other people
I guess you already forgot about John Daly and English Prof. who said that our enlisted people should shoot theit officers.......

You have a very selective memory my friend.......
 

FinnMacCool

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I guess you already forgot about John Daly and English Prof. who said that our enlisted people should shoot theit officers.......

You have a very selective memory my friend.......
WOW CONGRATS! You've picked out ONE TEACHER! ONE GOD DAMN TEACHER THAT DID THIS. Does this mean that all teachers do this or that this is even common?
 

Navy Pride

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FinnMacCool said:
WOW CONGRATS! You've picked out ONE TEACHER! ONE GOD DAMN TEACHER THAT DID THIS. Does this mean that all teachers do this or that this is even common?
There are many more examples......Most teachers belong to the NEA a very liberal union that is in the backpocket of the democratic party.......

Hey why the caps? Don't bust a blood vessel my friend........;)
 

FinnMacCool

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There are many more examples......Most teachers belong to the NEA a very liberal union that is in the backpocket of the democratic party.......
And you have evidence of this?
Hey why the caps? Don't bust a blood vessel my friend........
I didn't. I was just making sure you understood your mistake:2wave:
 

RightinNYC

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hipsterdufus said:
This is not an issue that I've pondered a lot until recently, but I was reminded by some of my students that "taxation without representation" is a huge issue for 16 and 17 year olds who pay taxes on their earnings, but do not have the right to vote.

There is a compelling argument to lower the voting age to 16 at the following website with a more detailed explanation than I've provided here:



http://www.youthrights.org/vote10.shtml
Regarding that list:

Youth don't have adult responsibilities. They cannont enter legal contracts, are treated as juveniles by the courts, and cannot purchase cigarettes.

The citizens of DC pay taxes too, and they don't have representation, despite being adults.

Lowering the voting age will actually decrease turnout as a percentage because youth vote at historically low rates.

Honestly, 18 should be the age for everything. Drinking, smoking, voting, driving.
 

RightinNYC

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hipsterdufus said:
I'm not sure what your talking about here. These are the stats I have.


http://www.civicyouth.org/quick/youth_voting.htm
That is a loaded statistic. Youth voting surged as a percentage from abysmal to merely terrible.

"In 2004, 47% of 18-24 year old citizens voted, 66% of citizens 25 and older voted."

So youth vote at roughly 2/3 the rate of people over 25. That's awful.
 

RightinNYC

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FinnMacCool said:
And you have evidence of this?
As much as the presentation is lacking, it is true that the vast majority of teachers/professors are left leaning. The NEA is a huge lobbyist with many ties to the Dems.
 

Navy Pride

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FinnMacCool said:
And you have evidence of this?


I didn't. I was just making sure you understood your mistake:2wave:
You don't believe that the teachers union is in the backpocket of the democratic party? Hell they endorse their candidates and make huge contributions to the democratic party which infuriates a teacher friend of mine who is a republican and a conservative...........

Come on, wake up and smell the roses my friend..........
 

FinnMacCool

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As much as the presentation is lacking, it is true that the vast majority of teachers/professors are left leaning. The NEA is a huge lobbyist with many ties to the Dems.
You don't believe that the teachers union is in the backpocket of the democratic party? Hell they endorse their candidates and make huge contributions to the democratic party which infuriates a teacher friend of mine who is a republican and a conservative...........

Come on, wake up and smell the roses my friend..........
I never said they weren't left leaning. Teachers are left leaning most of the time. However, that doesn't mean that they have much of an influence on the opinions of their students.
 

Navy Pride

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FinnMacCool said:
I never said they weren't left leaning. Teachers are left leaning most of the time. However, that doesn't mean that they have much of an influence on the opinions of their students.
Yeah, right.......:roll:
 

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You now it would be interesting to watch how different elections would turn out if 16 year olds could vote. I base this on the fact that most kids are either extremely liberal, or very conservative. They all have the same important issues when they become 16: legalize weed, lower drinking age, etc. They all want to generally loosen the laws
 

FinnMacCool

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Yeah, right.......
I didn't want to do this but whatever

1) Students couldn't, for the most part, give a **** about politics.

2) Students couldn't give a ****. for the most part, about what their teachers say

3) Parents are a greater influence on students then teachers.
 
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