Should the U.S. and the E.U. cut off aid to the Palestinians?

[Donkey1499]

:roll: And completely not what we're talking about, but as long as you've accepted that we are not starving Americans to death to give money to Palestine....

The money could still be better spent here than over there. I don't want to fund some poor Palestinian bastard so he can buy explosives and blow up Israelis.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

First off, their charter is 20 years old and in no way must reflect their current views. The charter for the labour party of the UK still calls for state controlled industry, although no party member supports it.

That's like saying that the U.S. Constitution doesn't reflect the current views of Americans. The Hamas charter is what states what they hope to achieve and their views on Israeli relations where in they don't want relations with Israel because they don't want Israel to exist.

Second, you can sit there and scream that the Palestinians voted for terror all you like. The platform that Hamas ran on and the large majority of Palestians that want peace show that they voted for less corruption and more social programs. The facts speak for themselves, which is obvious since you have none.

Has Hamas renounced violence? Has Hamas changed their charter? Has not Hamas been engaged in a brutal suicide campaign against Israel since 2000?

You can't change the nature of an organization by a campaign platform anymore than the Nazi party would be any less evil if they ran on a more moderate platform.

The truth is unless the Palestinians are made up exclusively of retards then they knew exactly what type of people they were voting for.

You saying that the Palestinians didn't support terrorism when they made their votes for Hamas is like saying that if the Saudi Arabians were allowed to vote and they voted for O.B.L. and AlQaeda because they promised reform for Saudi Arabia, that the people who voted for them were voting for reform and not terrorism. It's ridiculously naive.

Sooner or later you're going to have to quit playing devils advocate and live in the real world where in the Palestinians don't want peaceful relations or coexistence with Israel they want its destruction.

 

[Donkey1499]

And 20 years was what? Something you pulled out of your ass?

Damn, you democrats are always so damn mean. Why don't you go outside, take a deep breath of the gov't polluted air (lol) and come back on here when you've calmed down a bit? Then, maybe, we can have a civil debate.

 

[earthworm]

4.8 was just an estimate that I heard floating around. Excuse me for breathing.

Yesterday the unemployment figure in Michigan was 14 % !!!
The very idea of any foreign aid at this time is repugnant..

 

[Donkey1499]

That's like saying that the U.S. Constitution doesn't reflect the current views of Americans. The Hamas charter is what states what they hope to achieve and their views on Israeli relations where in they don't want relations with Israel because they don't want Israel to exist.


Has Hamas renounced violence? Has Hamas changed their charter? Has not Hamas been engaged in a brutal suicide campaign against Israel since 2000?

You can't change the nature of an organization by a campaign platform anymore than the Nazi party would be any less evil if they ran on a more moderate platform.

The truth is unless the Palestinians are made up exclusively of retards then they knew exactly what type of people they were voting for.

You saying that the Palestinians didn't support terrorism when they made their votes for Hamas is like saying that if the Saudi Arabians were allowed to vote and they voted for O.B.L. and AlQaeda because they promised reform for Saudi Arabia, that the people who voted for them were voting for reform and not terrorism. It's ridiculously naive.

Sooner or later you're going to have to quit playing devils advocate and live in the real world where in the Palestinians don't want peaceful relations or coexistence with Israel they want its destruction.

Finally! We've got some intelligence on here.

 

[Donkey1499]

Yesterday the unemployment figure in Michigan was 14 % !!!
The very idea of any foreign aid at this time is repugnant..

The liberals complain about the deficit, but they're always eager to send cash overseas. Didn't Howler Dean almost spend every penny of the DNC's money? They're down to like less than $5 million while republicans have like $35 million left. Who would you want to run the National Budget? DNC or GOP?

 

[cherokee]

Found this on US foreign aid.

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/trade/files/98-916.pdf

 

[Crispy]

And to give Hamas credit, considering the make up of their party, they've come along way to peace in the few days since they've been elected. It appears they are trying to compromise somewhat, although not as much as we'd like.

Underlying my argument here is that much of the world's problems are because we "haven't" demanded that the governments we support behave appropriately. We've had a policy of "good enough" which has only lead to our label as the self interested evil empire despite the good that we've attempted to do. If Hamas really stands for peace then it will be stood for in their actions. They are in control of their destiny not us.

 

[Donkey1499]

Found this on US foreign aid.

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/trade/files/98-916.pdf

I really don't feel like reading that. I stopped after page 3.

 

[Kelzie]

Damn, you democrats are always so damn mean. Why don't you go outside, take a deep breath of the gov't polluted air (lol) and come back on here when you've calmed down a bit? Then, maybe, we can have a civil debate.

Awww, there there. Don't cry little boy. I'll go find you a tissue.

 

[Kelzie]

That's like saying that the U.S. Constitution doesn't reflect the current views of Americans. The Hamas charter is what states what they hope to achieve and their views on Israeli relations where in they don't want relations with Israel because they don't want Israel to exist.

Except for the fact that a party charter and a nation's constitution are completely different. A charter can become quickly outdated, but it is still held on to for tradition. Much like the Labour Party.

Has Hamas renounced violence? Has Hamas changed their charter? Has not Hamas been engaged in a brutal suicide campaign against Israel since 2000?

Actually, they haven't. There's been a cease fire for the last year. Way to stay up to date on current events.

You can't change the nature of an organization by a campaign platform anymore than the Nazi party would be any less evil if they ran on a more moderate platform.

Yet again you are wrong. The Labour Party ran on a completely different platform than their charter and did wonderful things for the economy that nationalizing all the industries (which is in their charter) wouldn't do.

The truth is unless the Palestinians are made up exclusively of retards then they knew exactly what type of people they were voting for.

Yeah. People who promised to end corruption and create much needed social programs. Prove they voted for Hamas for any other reason.

You saying that the Palestinians didn't support terrorism when they made their votes for Hamas is like saying that if the Saudi Arabians were allowed to vote and they voted for O.B.L. and AlQaeda because they promised reform for Saudi Arabia, that the people who voted for them were voting for reform and not terrorism. It's ridiculously naive.

And so incredibly unlikely that it's not even worthy of a response. Come up with a credible hypothetical situation and then we'll talk.

Sooner or later you're going to have to quit playing devils advocate and live in the real world where in the Palestinians don't want peaceful relations or coexistence with Israel they want its destruction.

If by the real world you mean ignoring polls that explicitely state that the Palestinians want peace in favor of furthering my lack of knowledge of world affairs, no thanks. I'll stick to my world.



You still haven't addressed the fact that the huge majority of polled Palestinians wanted peace. What's wrong? Doesn't fit into your narrow and biased world view?

 

[Donkey1499]

Awww, there there. Don't cry little boy. I'll go find you a tissue.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The sarcasm is unneccessary; unless if it's from me. Then it's ok.

 

[Kelzie]

Underlying my argument here is that much of the world's problems are because we "haven't" demanded that the governments we support behave appropriately. We've had a policy of "good enough" which has only lead to our label as the self interested evil empire despite the good that we've attempted to do. If Hamas really stands for peace then it will be stood for in their actions. They are in control of their destiny not us.

Fair enough. Although it is somewhat cruel to make the people pay for the crimes of their government. Especially when the people so clearly state in polls that they support peace and their government does not.

 

[Kelzie]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The sarcasm is unneccessary; unless if it's from me. Then it's ok.

:lol: That was pretty funny. Give lessons to TOT, he has yet to grasp the concept of humor.

 

[Donkey1499]

:lol: That was pretty funny. Give lessons to TOT, he has yet to grasp the concept of humor.

How does one grasp a concept? With one's hands? Or with a salad fork (which you must be very familiar with, you lettuce lyncher!)?

 

[Kelzie]

How does one grasp a concept? With one's hands? Or with a salad fork (which you must be very familiar with, you lettuce lyncher!)?

I'm assuming it must be with one's intelligence, which would explain why TOT is having so much trouble with it. :mrgreen:

 

[Donkey1499]

I'm assuming it must be with one's intelligence, which would explain why TOT is having so much trouble with it. :mrgreen:

Now that's not very nice. Especially coming from a liberal; which are known fer their "generosity" and their willingness to "help" themsel-- I mean others to tax payer money. lol

 

[cherokee]

I really don't feel like reading that. I stopped after page 3.

But take a look at page CRS-13.

 

[Kelzie]

Now that's not very nice. Especially coming from a liberal; which are known fer their "generosity" and their willingness to "help" themsel-- I mean others to tax payer money. lol

It's okay. TOT knows I mean it with love. And liberals are taking money for themselves? A new scandal I haven't heard about? Or are you making stuff up again?

 

[Crispy]

Fair enough. Although it is somewhat cruel to make the people pay for the crimes of their government. Especially when the people so clearly state in polls that they support peace and their government does not.

You know Kelz,

I hear you. I don't take this stance lightly because I know what it means for the Palestinians (or think I do anyway). These people have been subjected to cruel circumstances for quite some time now though, I figure they can hang in a bit longer. If anything, despite the negative reception, Hamas has a great opportunity here. Be a shame if they squander it as so many of their predecessors have at the expense of their people.

 

[Donkey1499]

It's okay. TOT knows I mean it with love. And liberals are taking money for themselves? A new scandal I haven't heard about? Or are you making stuff up again?

A little bit of both. The Kennedy's don't pay their fair share of taxes, cuz most of it is over seas and can't be taxed. Yet Kennedy wants to raise taxes and make the rich pay more, so long as it ain't his rich pockets.

 

[Kelzie]

A little bit of both. The Kennedy's don't pay their fair share of taxes, cuz most of it is over seas and can't be taxed. Yet Kennedy wants to raise taxes and make the rich pay more, so long as it ain't his rich pockets.

Well that's not liberals. That's one family.

 

[Donkey1499]

But take a look at page CRS-13.

Yes, I know. We're giving money to AIDS victims to make them stop spreading the virus. But shouldn't we be doing that in our country first? Oh, I forgot, you can't tell people in America to stop breeding like rabbits. It's unconstitutional. :roll:

 

[Donkey1499]

Well that's not liberals. That's one family.

Hmm.... George Soros does it, Ralph Nader does it, I think the Pelosis and Clintons do it. Even Michael Moore and Barbara Streisand do it, I think. Haven't you read Do As I Say, Not As I Do: Profiles In Liberal Hypocrisy? You might learn a thing or two about the people you follow. Publicly they're libs, but privately, they're just as conservative as the conservatives they slam every day.

 

[Kelzie]

Hmm.... George Soros does it, Ralph Nader does it, I think the Pelosis and Clintons do it. Even Michael Moore and Barbara Streisand do it, I think. Haven't you read Do As I Say, Not As I Do: Profiles In Liberal Hypocrisy? You might learn a thing or two about the people you follow. Publicly they're libs, but privately, they're just as conservative as the conservatives they slam every day.

Don't even try baggin on Soros. The guy gives millions to charities around the world to promote democracy. And seeing as the vast majority of wealthy conservatives do it too, I think you are making a statement against the wealthy instead of the liberal.