• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should the Trump hotel lose its liquor license over Trump’s lack of ‘good character’?

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
49,056
Reaction score
30,831
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...d0f9f0351f1_story.html?utm_term=.ae6545677c94

... the ABC board’s taking a hard look at the complainants’ argument that Donald Trump, the “true and actual owner” of the Trump Old Post Office LLC trading as the Trump International Hotel, is not a person of “good character” as required by law.The complaint, filed on behalf of seven D.C. residents by attorney Joshua A. Levy, contends that if good character involves an evaluation of someone’s moral and ethical qualities, including the virtues of honesty, integrity and how a person treats others, especially the less fortunate, then Trump flunks the test because of his behavior “both before and during his presidency.”

the complainants are prominent citizens:
an inactive senior U.S. District Court judge
a retired magistrate judge of the D.C. Superior Court who has served as executive attorney of the D.C. Board on Professional Responsibility and senior attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice Professional Responsibility Advisory Office
senior pastor of the city’s historic Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church.
founding executive director of Faith in Public Life, a strategy center for faith and politics, and former chair of the White House Council on Faith and Neighborhood Partnerships
general secretary and chief administrative officer of the Progressive National Baptist Convention
a Conservative rabbi who since 2015 has been executive director and president of Interfaith Alliance in the District
an Orthodox rabbi who works with Jews in their 20s and 30s in the District
Their complaint says the president has “repeatedly been deceitful,” specifically citing statements involving his net worth, conflicts of interest and payments made to pornographic film actress Stormy Daniels. It says he “lacks integrity,” citing lawsuits claiming that Trump University defrauded students; alleging that his companies refused to pay business contractors, “forcing them to go to court to spend money in order to get paid”; noting that at least 16 women have said he sexually assaulted them; and that he has “engaged in racism.”
The Trump Organization sought to have the complaint dismissed, but the District of Columbia Alcoholic Beverage Control board denied the request.
The board allowed the group contesting the license to protest on the grounds of character, as the law requires the owner to be “of good character and generally fit for the responsibilities of the licensure.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/al...mp-dc-hotel/?comments=disqus#mvp-comment-main

the donald's character - or lack of it - is causing the ABC Commission to give consideration to the effort to rescind the liquor permit for tRump's DC hotel

had he divested - as he promised before being sworn in - his morals and character would not now be able to be used against him in this unique effort


 

Felis Leo

Moral clarity is needed
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
6,285
Reaction score
5,804
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...d0f9f0351f1_story.html?utm_term=.ae6545677c94


the complainants are prominent citizens:
an inactive senior U.S. District Court judge
a retired magistrate judge of the D.C. Superior Court who has served as executive attorney of the D.C. Board on Professional Responsibility and senior attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice Professional Responsibility Advisory Office
senior pastor of the city’s historic Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church.
founding executive director of Faith in Public Life, a strategy center for faith and politics, and former chair of the White House Council on Faith and Neighborhood Partnerships
general secretary and chief administrative officer of the Progressive National Baptist Convention
a Conservative rabbi who since 2015 has been executive director and president of Interfaith Alliance in the District
an Orthodox rabbi who works with Jews in their 20s and 30s in the District


Alcohol Beverage Control board rules against Trump — he may lose his liquor license for Trump DC Hotel – Raw Story

the donald's character - or lack of it - is causing the ABC Commission to give consideration to the effort to rescind the liquor permit for tRump's DC hotel

had he divested - as he promised before being sworn in - his morals and character would not now be able to be used against him in this unique effort


If the vague standard of having a "good character" is a qualification of having a liquor license, it is my opinion that any person who would propose to make a business out of selling large quantities of alcohol to the public (and all the harm that this entails) automatically lacks the good character to have a liquor license, and should be refused the license. So Donald Trump would fail on that count alone, without even touching on his myriad personal peccadilloes. But if "good character" is an objective standard, perhaps referring to lack of felony convictions or the like, this appears to be so much griefing and nipping at Trump's heels.
 
Last edited:

ecofarm

global liberation
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
115,068
Reaction score
32,523
Location
Miami
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If the vague standard of having a "good character" is a qualification of having a liquor license, it is my opinion that any person who propose to make a business out of selling large quantities of alcohol to the public (and all the harm that this entails) automatically lacks the good character to have a liquor license, and should be refused the license. So Donald Trump would fail on that count alone, without even touching on his myriad personal peccadilloes. But if "good character" is an objective standard, perhaps referring to lack of felony convictions or the like, this appears to be so much griefing and nipping at Trump's heels.
One guess whom the law was made for.
 

upsideguy

Pragmatic Idealist
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
16,354
Reaction score
9,189
Location
Rocky Mtn. High
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...d0f9f0351f1_story.html?utm_term=.ae6545677c94


the complainants are prominent citizens:
an inactive senior U.S. District Court judge
a retired magistrate judge of the D.C. Superior Court who has served as executive attorney of the D.C. Board on Professional Responsibility and senior attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice Professional Responsibility Advisory Office
senior pastor of the city’s historic Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church.
founding executive director of Faith in Public Life, a strategy center for faith and politics, and former chair of the White House Council on Faith and Neighborhood Partnerships
general secretary and chief administrative officer of the Progressive National Baptist Convention
a Conservative rabbi who since 2015 has been executive director and president of Interfaith Alliance in the District
an Orthodox rabbi who works with Jews in their 20s and 30s in the District


ABC board rules against Trump — he may lose his liquor license for Trump DC Hotel – Raw Story

the donald's character - or lack of it - is causing the ABC Commission to give consideration to the effort to rescind the liquor permit for tRump's DC hotel

had he divested - as he promised before being sworn in - his morals and character would not now be able to be used against him in this unique effort


No, but Trump should lose his Twitter account for ToS violations.
 

Common Sense 1

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
9,893
Reaction score
5,457
Location
United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
Can you say politics..... But it's Washington DC. More Resist nonsense.
 

joko104

On Vacation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
55,397
Reaction score
20,122
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The non-stop TDS crap really is tiresome. If the board even hears this instead of summarily dismissing it, this would represent a totally corrupt and politicized board. Unfortunately, many regulatory boards consist of corrupt, political hacks and why so many people truly despise regulatory agencies.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
49,056
Reaction score
30,831
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The non-stop TDS crap really is tiresome. If the board even hears this instead of summarily dismissing it, this would represent a totally corrupt and politicized board. Unfortunately, many regulatory boards consist of corrupt, political hacks and why so many people truly despise regulatory agencies.
The argument that tRump is without sound character is one which could prevail
 

joko104

On Vacation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
55,397
Reaction score
20,122
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The argument that tRump is without sound character is one which could prevail
So you agree that Elizabeth Warren should lose her law license for lying on her bar application that she is Native American, right?

I do understand that the Corporate Fascist Democratic Party demands that the criminal justice system and all agencies should operate the same as the KGB against anyone opposed to police state corporate fascism.
 

Winston

IV Disinfectant User
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Messages
14,674
Reaction score
9,717
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
So you agree that Elizabeth Warren should lose her law license for lying on her bar application that she is Native American, right?

I do understand that the Corporate Fascist Democratic Party demands that the criminal justice system and all agencies should operate the same as the KGB against anyone opposed to police state corporate fascism.
No one cares if Elizabeth Warren is or isn't Native American. Please try a different, legitimate form of criticism.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
49,056
Reaction score
30,831
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So you agree that Elizabeth Warren should lose her law license for lying on her bar application that she is Native American, right?

I do understand that the Corporate Fascist Democratic Party demands that the criminal justice system and all agencies should operate the same as the KGB against anyone opposed to police state corporate fascism.
Liz never misrepresented herself on her Bar application
you need better, factual, material
 

ocean515

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
36,760
Reaction score
15,463
Location
Southern California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Liz never misrepresented herself on her Bar application
you need better, factual, material
LOL

I think this particular topic regarding the ABC is one of the better jokes being spread.

Among the thousands of Dog Whistles the left's media partners sound off, this one takes the cake.
 

joko104

On Vacation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
55,397
Reaction score
20,122
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No one cares if Elizabeth Warren is or isn't Native American. Please try a different, legitimate form of criticism.
So your answer is no, you do not care about the ethical character of Warren or lawyers.
 

joko104

On Vacation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
55,397
Reaction score
20,122
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Liz never misrepresented herself on her Bar application
you need better, factual, material
Yes she did. She claimed she is Native American, just like she did to Harvard. As a lawyer, she knew in fact that even if her own claim of NA ancestry was accurate, it did not qualify her as NA under law.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
49,056
Reaction score
30,831
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yes she did. She claimed she is Native American, just like she did to Harvard. As a lawyer, she knew in fact that even if her own claim of NA ancestry was accurate, it did not qualify her as NA under law.
please cite the Native American law that you believe Liz Warren ignored when completing her Bar app
 

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
22,160
Reaction score
13,400
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...d0f9f0351f1_story.html?utm_term=.ae6545677c94


the complainants are prominent citizens:
an inactive senior U.S. District Court judge
a retired magistrate judge of the D.C. Superior Court who has served as executive attorney of the D.C. Board on Professional Responsibility and senior attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice Professional Responsibility Advisory Office
senior pastor of the city’s historic Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church.
founding executive director of Faith in Public Life, a strategy center for faith and politics, and former chair of the White House Council on Faith and Neighborhood Partnerships
general secretary and chief administrative officer of the Progressive National Baptist Convention
a Conservative rabbi who since 2015 has been executive director and president of Interfaith Alliance in the District
an Orthodox rabbi who works with Jews in their 20s and 30s in the District


ABC board rules against Trump — he may lose his liquor license for Trump DC Hotel – Raw Story

the donald's character - or lack of it - is causing the ABC Commission to give consideration to the effort to rescind the liquor permit for tRump's DC hotel

had he divested - as he promised before being sworn in - his morals and character would not now be able to be used against him in this unique effort


Trump is an utterly despicable human being, but I have known some real scumbags that owned bars, so not sure why he should lose his liquor license over it.
 

Lovebug

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
20,156
Reaction score
8,458
Location
south
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
OMG, really?
Liquor license, good moral character. My goodness, a lot of watering holes would be out of business.
 

OldFatGuy

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
13,794
Reaction score
7,495
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
please cite the Native American law that you believe Liz Warren ignored when completing her Bar app
Tribal governments which maintain Federal relationships via binding treaties recognizing sovereignty, have varying regulations demanding anywhere from 1/16 tribal ancestry upwards, and such regulations are considered law pursuant to those treaties by Federal courts. During the 1950's, individuals who claimed Apache, Kiowa, and Navaho ancestry claiming benefits from all three tribal governments simultaneously in New Mexico found themselves denied benefits from all three by a district court. Appeals to the appellate resulted in a decision obligating the tribal government whereby the plurality ancestry was the deciding factor, since the benefits ultimately were Federally sourced and were considered double dipping by the court, but still applicable from one tribal government. Case law, not legislative law, however a lawful precedent for determining Native American ancestry values for many other cases in almost every state.

In some states which maintain treaties and or recognition of tribes not recognized by the Federal government, the same case law standard has been used to certify tribal membership. An example, the Shinne**** Tribe of Long Island, recognized by the state, not the Federal government, for purposes of obtaining a casino license, tribal membership determined by provable 1/16 family ancestry in the tribe. Obviously, such case law can only be use to deny Tribal benefits, and not accrue any other lawful status for false claims.

The Iroquois Nation Tribal Council passed a law stating anyone claiming Iroquois ancestry without approval of formal tribal councils, found living on Iroquois lands as subject to $10k fines and up to one year in a Reservation Jail. Yet to be tested in either tribal or other courts. Iroquois tribal lands extend from northern Ohio, parts of northern NY, parts of Connecticut and Vermont, as well as parts of Canada. Not all those lands are recognized formally as tribal by either US or Canadian Federal authorities, often acquired by other independent purchases by the membership tribes and individual members over the years outside of treaty recognition.

A false claim of Native American ancestry by a Russian organized crime group in the Catskill region of NYS for the purposes of obtaining a NYS gaming and casino license about 12 years ago was adjudicated on the basis of fraud, embezzlement, counterfeiting, forgery, lying on government application forms, attempted bribery and so forth was very comically entertaining. Especially when one of the accused walked into the court wearing full and complete tribal attire of a Sioux shaman. Fake hair extensions hanging from his belt to simulate scalps of his enemies, and an Inuit sable fur headpiece (sable is not found in the US, strictly an animal of the Russian Steppes). The rest of his costume rented from Ruby's, a well known source of theater, TV video productions and movie costumes, consumer costumes, masks and make up for the celebration of Halloween. Members of the Onondaga tribe present as expert witnesses for the prosecution were rolling on the floor laughing. So were the most of the rest of the court, including some of the other defendants. Even the judge was having trouble maintaining a straight face. One of the prosecuting attorney team members is a personal friend who takes great joy in telling about this court experience. He's of Russian descent, speaks Russian fluently, reads and writes Cyrillic, the reasons he was drafted on the team. His usual haunt at the time, the Brooklyn DA's office. Today in private practice, he mostly does RE closings, estate work and occasional minor criminal defenses for a firm focused on personal injury and small business litigation.
 

Jason Warfield

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
1,075
Reaction score
575
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Liquor boards are fickle things. The ABC liquor board style of regulation exists in 17 states (mostly red states) and are state run (or city run in DC's case). However, each board has slightly different ways of doing certain things in each state.

But one thing is for certain; politics ALWAYS plays a role.

When you look closer at the rulings of various ABC boards, you will almost always find an ulterior motive. Usually stemming from one business trying to retain control of a market. And if that business happens to support the party in power locally, then it becomes easier for the ABC board members to nod and wink and use the character clause to shut down a competitor. BTW, most ABC board members are appointed by governors. Further, ABC boards usually have their own law enforcement force specifically tasked to the state's liquor laws under the direction of the ABC board.

In the case of DC, it would be safe to assume that is what they are doing. Now, before some of you waggle your fingers and cry shame and pretend that its unfair....the majority of 17 states that have ABC boards are, as I said before, red states, or conservative states. And they use it as a tool to help the GOP just as Washington DC is doing it to help the DNC. Don't like it? Cool...but at least be vocally on how it is also being misused by the GOP as well.
 

SmartCat

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
3,361
Reaction score
765
Location
North East USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
It would have been hilarious if Trump had lost his liquor license because of lack of good character.:lol:
 

Masterhawk

DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
1,693
Reaction score
371
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Last time I checked, character was not a qualification of holding a liquor license.
 

nitroexpress

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
Messages
1,093
Reaction score
285
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No one cares if Elizabeth Warren is or isn't Native American. Please try a different, legitimate form of criticism.
What's illegitimate about criticizing a candidate that lies?
 
Top Bottom