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Should the tipped employee exemption to minimum wage be repealed?

a tipping customer. i tip pretty well.



the $2.13 an hour wage from 1991 is silly. if they even tried to tie it to inflation in another twenty years, we'll still get the same arguments of "oh dear, every restaurant in the country except McDonalds will shut down! woe is me!"

bullshit. the tip should be something extra for the waiters / staff, who would be underpaid even at $7.25.
What I learned from this thread is apparently the red state deplorables in Montana have no problems mandating their employees all make the minimum wage but in New York they still have tip credit.

it would be one thing if the tip credit even worked in theory, but I have heard from many people on social media that in many cases servers who actually try to claim the difference between tips and minimum wage they are entitled to get serious resistance from the managers. It’s easier just to set a minimum and then it’s easy to enforce.
 
I don't know if New York does allow this or not. I am just saying how my buddy did it. Not necessarily the same thing, I don't know.
Plus, my knowledge of how it handled tips was from the early 90's.

No one ever quite, I know he was very generous. My guess is that the tips were spilt in addition to a wage far above minimum.

He had zero employee turnover.
Well good for him but in many cases that’s not the case.
 
a tipping customer. i tip pretty well.



the $2.13 an hour wage from 1991 is silly. if they even tried to tie it to inflation in another twenty years, we'll still get the same arguments of "oh dear, every restaurant in the country except McDonalds will shut down! woe is me!"

bullshit. the tip should be something extra for the waiters / staff, who would be underpaid even at $7.25.

That is not how the system was established, why on your say so, should it change?

Maybe, just maybe things are not as you have interpreted them? Maybe, just maybe there is much you don't understand?

How about my suggestion of a guaranteed minimum earning of 15$ instead of any stipen?
 
I'd simply abandon the stipend and increase the minimum wage as I have said in other posts.

Any issue with that?
No, I have no issue with that. I never said what minimum wage should be or how the tip system should work, I merely said the same labor protections that apply to other workers should apply to wait staff and other hospitality workers
 
What I learned from this thread is apparently the red state deplorables in Montana have no problems mandating their employees all make the minimum wage but in New York they still have tip credit.

it would be one thing if the tip credit even worked in theory, but I have heard from many people on social media that in many cases servers who actually try to claim the difference between tips and minimum wage they are entitled to get serious resistance from the managers. It’s easier just to set a minimum and then it’s easy to enforce.

i'm for using the minimum wage as the minimum salary that anyone can earn. anything that i tip is basically a gift to the server and whoever else on staff that they split it with. owners figured out a way to take a cut of the tips and then lobbied well enough to set that in stone for almost 30 years. enough.
 
No, I have no issue with that. I never said what minimum wage should be or how the tip system should work, I merely said the same labor protections that apply to other workers should apply to wait staff and other hospitality workers

But they already do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you have been arguing for is a raise.

Good grief.
 
But they already do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On paper they do, in reality this is a different scenario.
 
That is not how the system was established, why on your say so, should it change?

Maybe, just maybe things are not as you have interpreted them? Maybe, just maybe there is much you don't understand?

How about my suggestion of a guaranteed minimum earning of 15$ instead of any stipen?

i don't support that. i support linking the minimum wage to inflation and treating post secondary education / job training like we currently treat high school. putting a paywall in front of it has resulted in a level of undereducation which has led to serious political consequences. however, the minimum wage should be the minimum wage. tips are gifts from paying customers like me. if the owners can't afford minimum wage, they can charge an extra quarter for the burger.
 
tips are gifts from paying customers

LOL
OMG, they are not.
And you can repeat this till you are blue in the face but it's simply not the case.
they are a voluntary wage paid to one that serves you.

Honest, just stop.

You have no clue what you are talking about.
 
LOL
OMG, they are not.
And you can repeat this till you are blue in the face but it's simply not the case.
they are a voluntary wage paid to one that serves you.

Honest, just stop.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

My tip is a gift to the server. If I want to tip the owner, I will. If it stays at $2.13 an hour, eventually I'll get tired enough of it to let the owner tip the server. It's a wage set three decades ago. It needs to be updated.
 
My tip is a gift to the server.

Only in your mind. God Bless you.

Trumpism would suit you just fine.

I am done. All you do is insist on a falsehood.

You do realize this is the trademark of a TRumpist don't you?
 
Only in your mind. God Bless you.

Trumpism would suit you just fine.

I am done. All you do is insist on a falsehood.

You do realize this is the trademark of a TRumpist don't you?

if you have mistaken me for a Tweety cultist, then that's even worse than your opinion that servers should be paid the same now as they were during the George H.W. Bush administration almost 30 years ago.
 
I think the Federal FLSA should be amended to prohibit this exemption, and failing that the states that do not currently mandate minimum wage should mandate it.
Why intrude on a state’s ability to make economic decisions for itself allowing Americans choice in their economic environments state to state? If one state had mostly college-age entry-level workers in the industry and another more so those making a career of it, would that not change the cost-benefit as you frame it? Additionally the cost of basic necessities varies greatly by region. Can a federal minimum really account for all that variation?

the majority of tipped workers are women (more agreeable)
I agree the trait of high-agreeableness on the net will result in getting less wherever there is negotiation. The government equalizing for that difference will however not solve for any injustice rather promote a environment less adapt for highly agreeable people.

The reason trait agreeableness gets less is its demands less, meaning they’re happier on less. So if for example tips weren’t a thing these servers would be in high likelihood the lowest paid employees(unlike today). You know what trait agreeableness helps with, maximizing tips in a service industry. It one of the reasons highly-agreeable people prefer the service industry over say high-pressure sales which revolve around negotiations. Most people know their own strengths and weaknesses.

it should not be the customer’s responsibility to pay for employees.
Here’s a tip - stop wondering. It’s the responsibility of the server to let you know and give you reasons to tip. Just as it the restaurant’s responsibility to price attractively. If the server believed they would be paid more trusting the business alone to set the prices, there are plenty of restaurants etc which offer wage security for less earning opportunity. The server made a choice, and takes the risks associated.

there is no right for a restaurant owner to make profit stiffing employees.
Why except the employment offer if you don’t like the terms offered? When there is demand but no employees wages always raise.

the very fact the law mandates that employers should make up the difference between tips and the minimum wage is a recognition this system is bogus
Wrong. There are people willing to risk their entire life saving on a game of pitch and toss. Society is uncomfortable letting them be that extreme. It’s a safety-net prevision not a rebuke.

it is an anti-family policy, America needs more families and keeping sectors of the economy in poverty does not forward this goal.
Umm, you’re not assigned a career path at birth nor are you bound by one at anytime. If the earning potential of an industry is too low. Find a new niche.

it is not fair to industries that actually have to follow the minimum wage law.
Most minimum-wage jobs aren’t seeking a skill. The service industry takes skill. And they do pay more where tipping isn’t practiced. The reason tipping exists is highly-agreeable people maximize their earnings that way.

Finally for the right
Few doubt I am on the right, in my state; I would support minimum wage plus tips over the alternative, because I value simplicity & universality not for any of the reasons you listed. But, I wouldn’t object to other arrangements either because the change is more disruptive than any minor benefit.

In fact, if your asking just me as one of those crazies who would ideally repeal all equalization schemes like minimum wage. You know what would replace it for all you too scared to take the leap: federal & state UBI. Then employers need to incentives people without fear they can’t feed their families. Does that sound fair enough for you?
I’ll tell you this though UBI is expensive. So adding it on is never going to work, but because equalization schemes are even more expensive and a free-market such a revenue generator. Replace all that current social spending with UBI now we’re talking bipartisanship.
 
The restaurant should not be able to keep any tips, it should all be spread out amongst staff and be on top of paying at least minimum wage.

It's called a minimum wage for a reason, no company should be able to use gratuities to avoid paying it. That this is even an issue shows just how bad US employment law is.
 
if you have mistaken me for a Tweety cultist, then that's even worse than your opinion that servers should be paid the same now as they were during the George H.W. Bush administration almost 30 years ago.

I know you do not profess allegiance to the orange idol but you do employee his same tactic. You are just repeating a falsehood because it's what you want to believe,
That is vintage TRumpism.

I think serves should be guaranteed $15 an hour. Do not misrepresent me in your anger.
 
I know you do not profess allegiance to the orange idol but you do employee his same tactic. You are just repeating a falsehood because it's what you want to believe,
That is vintage TRumpism.

I think serves should be guaranteed $15 an hour. Do not misrepresent me in your anger.

i don't see that as doable. raising the minimum wage that much would make it worth what it is now pretty quickly. meanwhile, everyone already making a bit more than already that would basically be making minimum wage. i do support tying the current minimum wage to inflation, however, and i definitely support including servers. paying servers full minimum wage would raise the price of a burger a bit, but i doubt that people would stop eating out, sans a pandemic with limited available vaccines. that is the big risk to restaurants, and i suspect that many will probably fail. that sucks.
 
I've always tipped regardless of whether it was waitresses, gardeners, mechanics, whatever. And, waitresses and the like should get at least minimum wage. If your business can't swing paying $17 or so an hour then you obviously don't need to be hiring help, since you don't need any.

I do think it should also be obvious that SS and other payroll taxes need to be reduced along with the increases, something I don't see them doing. At the current conservative MW estimate for inflation, some $17+change/hr, the SS rates should be no more than 6% combined, or 3% each.
 
Or just do profit sharing
 
That is not how the system was established, why on your say so, should it change?

Maybe, just maybe things are not as you have interpreted them? Maybe, just maybe there is much you don't understand?

How about my suggestion of a guaranteed minimum earning of 15$ instead of any stipen?
Maybe this would work or just do more of a profit sharing model.
 
The restaurant should not be able to keep any tips, it should all be spread out amongst staff and be on top of paying at least minimum wage.

It's called a minimum wage for a reason, no company should be able to use gratuities to avoid paying it. That this is even an issue shows just how bad US employment law is.
Keeping a tipped worker’s tips from them is criminal imo. The boss didnt provide the value the tipped worker did.
 
profit sharing

all businesses should be obliged to do this, imho

The way capitalism works at present, the worker is the bitch of the owner, The owner does not contribute to the greater good appropriately
 
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all businesses should be obliged to do this, imho

he way capitalism works as present, the worked the bitch of the owner, does not contribute to the greater good appropriately
I agree.
 
This is an issue I have changed my mind on in recent times, but to summarize the current situation and why I changed my mind let’s start with US Federal law, Federal Law specifically the Fair Labor Standards Act (or maybe fair standards of labor act? I always forget the order of the words) allows an establishment which permits employees to collect gratuities to pay a lower amount then the federal minimum wage, I think 2.13 an hour, if the employee makes enough in tips to cover the difference between that amount and minimum wage. If the employee does not make at least minimum wage then the employer must make up the difference.

in some states like mine the law makes no such exemption, the employer must pay the minimum wage regardless of tips or not.

I think the Federal FLSA should be amended to prohibit this exemption, and failing that the states that do not currently mandate minimum wage should mandate it.

why?

first off, the majority of tipped workers are women, and while they are entitled to at least minimum wage, women are measurably more agreeable and less likely to demand their full rights. Anyone who spends a little time reading Facebook posts about this topic finds many waitresses talk about being afraid for theif employment if they ask for the difference.

secondly, it should not be the customer’s responsibility to pay for employees. Yes some libertarian goober is thinking right now “lol you dumb commie we all pay for a businesses employees through the price, haven’t you ever read <insert obscure libertarian/neoliberal economist here”> that may be true, but it’s irrelevant, I should just be able to pay the cost of the meal so the server can get the minimum wage and a tip can be on top of that. I shouldn’t have to guess whether my server or her kid will eat today if I tip 25 versus 15 percent today.

thirdly, there is no right for a restaurant owner to make profit stiffing employees.

fourth, the very fact the law mandates that employers should make up the difference between tips and the minimum wage is a recognition this system is bogus to start with. If we’re going to acknowledge that the servers shouldn’t have to make a seperate demand for the wages they are owed.

fifth, it is an anti-family policy, America needs more families and keeping sectors of the economy in poverty does not forward this goal.

sixth, it is not fair to industries that actually have to follow the minimum wage law.

Finally for the right, it is literally cost free policy that will grow the base. No one except a narrow set of special interests wants this exemption, there will be zero electoral kickback for eliminating this exemption. The lack of a strong constituency that actually wants this means that it should be a no brainer.
Tipping has its roots in racism. That said, a hot bartender with a winning personality can earn $50 K a year working 6-hr shifts in some cities. So, it's a tough call. I imagine the server at Ruth Chris loves his/her tips. While some slug at Denneys does not.
 
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