Should the tipped employee exemption to minimum wage be repealed?

[lurchadams]

OMG, what a horrific post.

Why not just say that your family has many food servers in it and you want them to get a raise rather than concoct such nonsensical bullet points?

You want a solution? Let the establishment keep all tips and pay the servers minimum wage.

The servers lose but your silly points become mute.

Moot.

 

[noonereal]

Moot.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you familiar with "little man" syndrome?

 

[lurchadams]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you familiar with "little man" syndrome?

No, but your pants are

 

[Bodi]

The restaurant industry has lobbied for thirty years to keep wait staff paid so outrageously little that it's damn near obscene. It's time to end that shit and make it a flat salary, the minimum wage everyone else gets. period.

Just realize that for restaurants to stay open your menu prices will drastically increase to make up for it...

 

[Bodi]

The way everyone is depending on tips, it almost makes a menu with prices pointless.

NOt really... you take the amount of the menu prices... add tax and then take 20% of that and give it to me as a tip.

 

[dockside]

that isn't what my tip is intended for. if restaurants can't pay a 21st century minimum wage, then perhaps we can eat more TV dinners. $2.13 an hour is too ridiculous to even debate.

I don't know why this country doesn't do what other civilized countries do. Include the wage of the server in the price of the meal. In France, one can leave a small tip for service (usually round up the bill to the next euro/euros).

 

[bluesmoke]

No, but your pants are

No. Are you familiar with Carathéodory–Jacobi–Lie theorem? Or...

 

[Amyishere]

Just realize that for restaurants to stay open your menu prices will drastically increase to make up for it...

Why is it that so many restaurants in Europe manage to stay in business just fine without having a tipped wage? And everytime I hear about the prices of food going up to pay for the wages of employees that go up, all I have to say is that I don't want food made by slaves or near slaves. I don't want to eat food that is made by people that aren't paid enough to get by with at all. $2.13 is obscene, and I stand by what I said.

The restaurant lobby has filled people's head with propaganda through their marketing efforts to make more money, and they would still be making money just fine if they paid their employees a living wage. The federal govt is slacking in this,and it needs tob e riased to the bare minimum wage everyone else gets.

I think it's just a way to keep a subservient class that has to kiss ass "smile and they will tip more" just to survive and I see it for what it is. A worker that does a job well should be paid well, no matter what the job is. And if you don't like a worker being paid well, eat at home.

 

[Bodi]

Why is it that so many restaurants in Europe manage to stay in business just fine without having a tipped wage? And everytime I hear about the prices of food going up to pay for the wages of employees that go up, all I have to say is that I don't want food made by slaves or near slaves. I don't want to eat food that is made by people that aren't paid enough to get by with at all. $2.13 is obscene, and I stand by what I said.

The restaurant lobby has filled people's head with propaganda through their marketing efforts to make more money, and they would still be making money just fine if they paid their employees a living wage. The federal govt is slacking in this,and it needs tob e riased to the bare minimum wage everyone else gets.

I think it's just a way to keep a subservient class that has to kiss ass "smile and they will tip more" just to survive and I see it for what it is. A worker that does a job well should be paid well, no matter what the job is. And if you don't like a worker being paid well, eat at home.

Waiters get tipped in Europe. They generally get 5-10%.

Waiters are paid well... I was a waiter/bartender for almost 20 years. Made more than I did as a teacher.

 

[danielpalos]

...Yes, it should.

 

[Eriech]

This is an issue I have changed my mind on in recent times, but to summarize the current situation and why I changed my mind let’s start with US Federal law, Federal Law specifically the Fair Labor Standards Act (or maybe fair standards of labor act? I always forget the order of the words) allows an establishment which permits employees to collect gratuities to pay a lower amount then the federal minimum wage, I think 2.13 an hour, if the employee makes enough in tips to cover the difference between that amount and minimum wage. If the employee does not make at least minimum wage then the employer must make up the difference.

in some states like mine the law makes no such exemption, the employer must pay the minimum wage regardless of tips or not.

I think the Federal FLSA should be amended to prohibit this exemption, and failing that the states that do not currently mandate minimum wage should mandate it.

why?

first off, the majority of tipped workers are women, and while they are entitled to at least minimum wage, women are measurably more agreeable and less likely to demand their full rights. Anyone who spends a little time reading Facebook posts about this topic finds many waitresses talk about being afraid for theif employment if they ask for the difference.

secondly, it should not be the customer’s responsibility to pay for employees. Yes some libertarian goober is thinking right now “lol you dumb commie we all pay for a businesses employees through the price, haven’t you ever read <insert obscure libertarian/neoliberal economist here”> that may be true, but it’s irrelevant, I should just be able to pay the cost of the meal so the server can get the minimum wage and a tip can be on top of that. I shouldn’t have to guess whether my server or her kid will eat today if I tip 25 versus 15 percent today.

thirdly, there is no right for a restaurant owner to make profit stiffing employees.

fourth, the very fact the law mandates that employers should make up the difference between tips and the minimum wage is a recognition this system is bogus to start with. If we’re going to acknowledge that the servers shouldn’t have to make a seperate demand for the wages they are owed.

fifth, it is an anti-family policy, America needs more families and keeping sectors of the economy in poverty does not forward this goal.

sixth, it is not fair to industries that actually have to follow the minimum wage law.

Finally for the right, it is literally cost free policy that will grow the base. No one except a narrow set of special interests wants this exemption, there will be zero electoral kickback for eliminating this exemption. The lack of a strong constituency that actually wants this means that it should be a no brainer.

Would you rather work for minimum wage or as a tipped employee? That is a choice. Your premise would take that choice away.

 

[MrWonka]

This is an issue I have changed my mind on in recent times

Congrats on your move towards becoming a liberal. Keep going.

 

[MrWonka]

I think every worker in America has a right to a living wage determined by COL for the area they live in,

But what'll burst your bubble later on is realizing that raising the minimum wage raises the cost of living making it not so livable anymore.

 

[Waddy]

The $2.13 per hour is for servers. But those servers are only supposed to be waiting tables. When they are not waiting tables, like doing prep or cleanup they are supposed to be paid at least minimum wage. But many employers use them for such tasks and don't pay them minimum wage. There have been several court cases over this. Because this practice is so widespread I support minimum wage or higher for everyone in the restaurant. A server's tips should then be for extra good service, above and beyond what normally would be expected.
BTW; there are several other ways servers are cheated. Often if a customer leaves without paying, or refuses to pay, the server is charged for the food. This industry is in need of some reforms.

 

[Bodi]

The $2.13 per hour is for servers. But those servers are only supposed to be waiting tables. When they are not waiting tables, like doing prep or cleanup they are supposed to be paid at least minimum wage. But many employers use them for such tasks and don't pay them minimum wage. There have been several court cases over this. Because this practice is so widespread I support minimum wage or higher for everyone in the restaurant. A server's tips should then be for extra good service, above and beyond what normally would be expected.
BTW; there are several other ways servers are cheated. Often if a customer leaves without paying, or refuses to pay, the server is charged for the food. This industry is in need of some reforms.

I loved waiting tables and bartending... the hours were great, the pay was awesome and we got tons of free food.

I would be doing it here if they tipped... but they don't and as such the service here is complete shit, even at supposedly good places.

 

[Jason Warfield]

I am reminded of the tipping-discussion scene in Reservoir Dogs...pointless, stupid...and just go ahead and tip the waitress for good service for god's sake.

 

[SarahSun]

This is an issue I have changed my mind on in recent times, but to summarize the current situation and why I changed my mind let’s start with US Federal law, Federal Law specifically the Fair Labor Standards Act (or maybe fair standards of labor act? I always forget the order of the words) allows an establishment which permits employees to collect gratuities to pay a lower amount then the federal minimum wage, I think 2.13 an hour, if the employee makes enough in tips to cover the difference between that amount and minimum wage. If the employee does not make at least minimum wage then the employer must make up the difference.

in some states like mine the law makes no such exemption, the employer must pay the minimum wage regardless of tips or not.

I think the Federal FLSA should be amended to prohibit this exemption, and failing that the states that do not currently mandate minimum wage should mandate it.

why?

first off, the majority of tipped workers are women, and while they are entitled to at least minimum wage, women are measurably more agreeable and less likely to demand their full rights. Anyone who spends a little time reading Facebook posts about this topic finds many waitresses talk about being afraid for theif employment if they ask for the difference.

secondly, it should not be the customer’s responsibility to pay for employees. Yes some libertarian goober is thinking right now “lol you dumb commie we all pay for a businesses employees through the price, haven’t you ever read <insert obscure libertarian/neoliberal economist here”> that may be true, but it’s irrelevant, I should just be able to pay the cost of the meal so the server can get the minimum wage and a tip can be on top of that. I shouldn’t have to guess whether my server or her kid will eat today if I tip 25 versus 15 percent today.

thirdly, there is no right for a restaurant owner to make profit stiffing employees.

fourth, the very fact the law mandates that employers should make up the difference between tips and the minimum wage is a recognition this system is bogus to start with. If we’re going to acknowledge that the servers shouldn’t have to make a seperate demand for the wages they are owed.

fifth, it is an anti-family policy, America needs more families and keeping sectors of the economy in poverty does not forward this goal.

sixth, it is not fair to industries that actually have to follow the minimum wage law.

Finally for the right, it is literally cost free policy that will grow the base. No one except a narrow set of special interests wants this exemption, there will be zero electoral kickback for eliminating this exemption. The lack of a strong constituency that actually wants this means that it should be a no brainer.

I liked working for tips. You make good points but i averaged well above minimum wage

 

[SarahSun]

I loved waiting tables and bartending... the hours were great, the pay was awesome and we got tons of free food.

I would be doing it here if they tipped... but they don't and as such the service here is complete shit, even at supposedly good places.

Totally agree

 

[Slartibartfast]

The minimum wage for tipped jobs should be the same as the minimum wage for all other jobs.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I think every worker in America has a right to a living wage determined by COL for the area they live in, regardless of whether they get tips or not, which tips are personal gesture and should not be reported as income or deducted by whomever gives the tip as an expense. If LW + tips is better than what college grads are getting, let them fight for waiting tables and then the employers that want college grads can raise wages to attract college grads or hire those formerly waiting tables. That'll stimulate the "free" market.

Hmm… why is that (bolded above) not the policy for determining (minimum) Social Security retirement benefits?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Would you rather work for minimum wage or as a tipped employee? That is a choice. Your premise would take that choice away.

I don’t think it’s a binary choice. In many US states the minimum wage applies to all employees.

And they can still collect tips.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Hmm… why is that (bolded above) not the policy for determining (minimum) Social Security retirement benefits?

There is cola in social security.

I don’t know why when I’ve lived and worked most of my life in rural communities where a house can be snagged now for 300K should have to pay SS taxes to give higher benefits to someone in LA where I now live.

I mean if I live the rest of my life in LA and retire would I collect the LA social security and then if I moved back to where I grew up would I get a cut?

 

[ttwtt78640]

There is cola in social security.

I don’t know why when I’ve lived and worked most of my life in rural communities where a house can be snagged now for 300K should have to pay SS taxes to give higher benefits to someone in LA where I now live.

I mean if I live the rest of my life in LA and retire would I collect the LA social security and then if I moved back to where I grew up would I get a cut?

There is no regional COLA for SS retirement benefits, however there are regional adjustments for federal employee pay and for federal contractor ‘prevailing’ wages under the Davis Bacon Act.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

There is no regional COLA for SS retirement benefits, however there are regional adjustments for federal employee pay and for federal contractor ‘prevailing’ wages under the Davis Bacon Act.

So the federal wages are different for workers who need to be in specific regions, but as a retiree you don’t need to be in any specific region

 

[ttwtt78640]

So the federal wages are different for workers who need to be in specific regions, but as a retiree you don’t need to be in any specific region

Perhaps, but one does not have to be in any specific region to get a job.