Should Student Loans be Dischargeable in Bankruptcy? (1 Viewer)

[phattonez]

I paid my own way through college, I never took a red cent from anyone including my parents. Granted, it was before college was so expensive, which is entirely because the government is willing to foot the bill. But I am paying for my oldest daughter's college out of pocket. When my youngest daughter goes, I'll be doing the same. It's called hard work and earning it.

Why can't liberals do the same?

This isn't about somehow getting off free from your decisions. Bankruptcy stays on your record for a long time, as it should. It shows that you're an unworthy borrower, and that you're high risk. I have absolutely no problems with that. My issue is with slavery, and not allowing one recourse to bankruptcy makes someone a slave.

 

[Cephus]

This isn't about somehow getting off free from your decisions. Bankruptcy stays on your record for a long time, as it should. It shows that you're an unworthy borrower, and that you're high risk. I have absolutely no problems with that. My issue is with slavery, and not allowing one recourse to bankruptcy makes someone a slave.

7 years and if you've ever known anyone with a bankruptcy, you know that the credit card companies are throwing offers your way, even on a new bankruptcy, because they know you can't declare bankruptcy again for another 7 years. So are people slaves in that bankruptcy period? Maybe they should just learn to live within their means.

 

[phattonez]

I did it. I worked more than full time and took a full course load. I had no social life. I worked and studied and occasionally slept for years. It was worth it to me to get a worthwhile degree, plus I was making nowhere near minimum wage because I had been working since the day I turned 16 and had plenty of experience and advancement by the time I got to college.

Why are people so lazy today?

Your cost of living when you went to college was negligible compared to today. Today it is common for people to spend half of their income or more on housing alone. You're out of touch with the reality of living expenses for young people today.

 

[phattonez]

7 years and if you've ever known anyone with a bankruptcy, you know that the credit card companies are throwing offers your way, even on a new bankruptcy, because they know you can't declare bankruptcy again for another 7 years. So are people slaves in that bankruptcy period? Maybe they should just learn to live within their means.

They are.

 

[ttwtt78640]

No, student loans should not be dischargable in bankruptcy, but neither should the government be handing out loans at a ridiculously high interest rate. As long as those loans are not dischargable, the risk is much lower and thus the interest rate should be lower.

It's not that simple. There are many jobs which require a college degree and I don't mean as criteria for the job, but rather to be able to perform the job. And since college is not affordable, then it is not simple to say "don't borrow money you can't pay back", when one of the biggest reasons people can't pay them back is because of the ridiculously high interest rate attached to the money.

Student loan rates should reside fixed somewhere around the rate of inflation or slightly above. The government should not be making money off its citizens becoming educated.
You do realize the various limitations in your position, correct?

Those employers should either make the loan themselves or offer tuition reimbursement (TR) to allow their employees to get the education required. This could be greatly encouraged by offering tax breaks (subsidies) to participating employers. BTW, TR is how I was able to go to college.

 

[Cephus]

Your cost of living when you went to college was negligible compared to today. Today it is common for people to spend half of their income or more on housing alone. You're out of touch with the reality of living expenses for young people today.

Nope. People can still live at home with their parents. I did it until I was out of college. I also bought and paid for my own car and all of the maintenance. Hell, I even paid my parents a moderate rent. People today are just lazy.

 

[Cephus]

They are.

Too bad. So sad. If you voluntarily sell yourself into financial slavery because you're too stupid to do otherwise, don't come whining to me when you realize your decisions make you unhappy.

 

[phattonez]

Nope. People can still live at home with their parents. I did it until I was out of college. I also bought and paid for my own car and all of the maintenance. Hell, I even paid my parents a moderate rent. People today are just lazy.

That's exactly what many people do, and still they can't get out from under the crippling student debt. Imagine starting life with $100k in debt at interest. Tuition in your day was only a fraction of that, and you didn't have to take out loans to pay it. Students today have that debt and interest on top of that, and you call them lazy.

 

[Slyfox696]

Those employers should either make the loan themselves

Impractical. It's hard enough for students to know where they want to work when they graduate high school, the idea of employers shelling out their own money for a dischargable loan, only for the student to later decide not to enter that field, is just not going to happen.

or offer tuition reimbursement (TR) to allow their employees to get the education required.

This does occur in some cases. Certainly it's long been a selling point of the military (even if the military doesn't hold up their end of the bargain some times).

This could be greatly encouraged by offering tax breaks (subsidies) to participating employers. BTW, TR is how I was able to go to college.

Instead of offering tax breaks to participating employers, why not just offer student loans at lower rates? Why not offer student loans at the rate of inflation, or slightly above it? Why not just keep what we have, cut out the middle man, and make it more affordable to go to school?

 

[KevinKohler]

I see both sides.

On the one hand, my wife and I are still paying off student loan debt, to the tune of 800 bucks per month, and will be, for another, oh....20 years, minimum. And that sucks. No matter what happens. I can lose my job, my house, everything, but those student loans will never go away. Hell, if I die, my wife gets to pay them.

Flip side is, our economy needs that. Our economy, our way of life, is debt based. We NEED young people to be in debt, because we NEED young people to NEED jobs.

I'll tell you what....7 years of no credit, and giving up my major possessions (of which I had none upon graduating) is a minuscule price to pay for a college education these days. And it's not like they can repossess the knowledge I gained. They can take back my accreditation, I suppose....but what's more important?

To me, however, this is a problem that technology is rapidly fixing. Colleges days are numbered. Self education is the future.

 

[phattonez]

Too bad. So sad. If you voluntarily sell yourself into financial slavery because you're too stupid to do otherwise, don't come whining to me when you realize your decisions make you unhappy.

So let's make indentured servitude legal.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

The risk of default is the moral underpinning of interest -- it's the reason charging interest is justified. Bankruptcy is just the ordered handling of default through the courts -- you know, so people don't get legs broken or cement shoes when they can't pay their mortgage. No chance of default means no justification for interest.

Either make college debt dischargeable or make it interest-free. The current situation is both unfair and unsustainable.

 

[phattonez]

Impractical. It's hard enough for students to know where they want to work when they graduate high school, the idea of employers shelling out their own money for a dischargable loan, only for the student to later decide not to enter that field, is just not going to happen.

This does occur in some cases. Certainly it's long been a selling point of the military (even if the military doesn't hold up their end of the bargain some times).

Instead of offering tax breaks to participating employers, why not just offer student loans at lower rates? Why not offer student loans at the rate of inflation, or slightly above it? Why not just keep what we have, cut out the middle man, and make it more affordable to go to school?

Or, perhaps even more radically, why not do away with the whole business of student loans entirely? The government should stop lending, and should allow all debts to be dischargeable in bankruptcy. Do you think that there would be a private market for student loans? I doubt it. And once you have that situation, you would see the cost of college plummet.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I shouldn't be able to make you my slave just because I lent you some of my money.

So I should be able to borrow money and simply let the taxpayers make the lender whole? That seems much like legalized theft. A typical HS graduate has no (or bad) credit to begin with so a bankruptcy (2 to 5 years later) is no big deal - so just borrow (take?) the money and party on or near campus for a few years.

 

[phattonez]

I see both sides.

On the one hand, my wife and I are still paying off student loan debt, to the tune of 800 bucks per month, and will be, for another, oh....20 years, minimum. And that sucks. No matter what happens. I can lose my job, my house, everything, but those student loans will never go away. Hell, if I die, my wife gets to pay them.

Flip side is, our economy needs that. Our economy, our way of life, is debt based. We NEED young people to be in debt, because we NEED young people to NEED jobs.

I'll tell you what....7 years of no credit, and giving up my major possessions (of which I had none upon graduating) is a minuscule price to pay for a college education these days. And it's not like they can repossess the knowledge I gained. They can take back my accreditation, I suppose....but what's more important?

To me, however, this is a problem that technology is rapidly fixing. Colleges days are numbered. Self education is the future.

This is not at all self-evident.

 

[Cephus]

That's exactly what many people do, and still they can't get out from under the crippling student debt. Imagine starting life with $100k in debt at interest. Tuition in your day was only a fraction of that, and you didn't have to take out loans to pay it. Students today have that debt and interest on top of that, and you call them lazy.

But they're not starting life that way. They could have easily had a job all the way through college that would pay at least some of the expenses, especially if they had been working for a couple of years and weren't flipping burgers at McDonalds. So yes, they are lazy. They need to stop pretending that partying and getting laid are part of the college experience. They are there to learn. They can get to work.

 

[KevinKohler]

Impractical. It's hard enough for students to know where they want to work when they graduate high school, the idea of employers shelling out their own money for a dischargable loan, only for the student to later decide not to enter that field, is just not going to happen.

This does occur in some cases. Certainly it's long been a selling point of the military (even if the military doesn't hold up their end of the bargain some times).

Instead of offering tax breaks to participating employers, why not just offer student loans at lower rates? Why not offer student loans at the rate of inflation, or slightly above it? Why not just keep what we have, cut out the middle man, and make it more affordable to go to school?

And while we're at it, do something about the state of accreditation requirements in this country. What's more important....my knowledge, or a piece of paper promising that I have such knowledge?

 

[phattonez]

So I should be able to borrow money and simply let the taxpayers make the lender whole? That seems much like legalized theft. A typical HS graduate has no (or bad) credit to begin with so a bankruptcy (2 to 5 years later) is no big deal - so just borrow (take?) the money and party on or near campus for a few years.

No. The federal government shouldn't be lending this money, and any money that they have lent should be dischargeable in bankruptcy.

 

[Cephus]

So let's make indentured servitude legal.

In a completely voluntary way like this, fine with me.

 

[phattonez]

But they're not starting life that way. They could have easily had a job all the way through college that would pay at least some of the expenses, especially if they had been working for a couple of years and weren't flipping burgers at McDonalds. So yes, they are lazy. They need to stop pretending that partying and getting laid are part of the college experience. They are there to learn. They can get to work.

My wife worked throughout her college years. She didn't go to parties, nor was she getting laid. She's still saddled with tens of thousands in debt. But please, continue to tell me how lazy she is. I really appreciate it.

 

[phattonez]

In a completely voluntary way like this, fine with me.

And watch as we see mostly poor, black kids become slaves. But hey, they chose it for themselves so it's okay, right?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Impractical. It's hard enough for students to know where they want to work when they graduate high school, the idea of employers shelling out their own money for a dischargable loan, only for the student to later decide not to enter that field, is just not going to happen.

This does occur in some cases. Certainly it's long been a selling point of the military (even if the military doesn't hold up their end of the bargain some times).

Instead of offering tax breaks to participating employers, why not just offer student loans at lower rates? Why not offer student loans at the rate of inflation, or slightly above it? Why not just keep what we have, cut out the middle man, and make it more affordable to go to school?

Student loans to "everybody" simply jacks up tuition while realizing that quite a few are never going to either graduate or repay the loans.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...egree-drop-out-regret-default-loans/86576186/

 

[What if...?]

So let's make indentured servitude legal.

You joke, but I think its on the horizon.

Voluntary and contractual at first. Probably to pay for education first. Signing a Contract to only work for the company that pays for your degree for a set period of time. Probably at reduced pay.

Then once the precedent is established they will move to debts. Minor crimes.

 

[Slyfox696]

Or, perhaps even more radically, why not do away with the whole business of student loans entirely?

Because that would work to prevent lower class citizens from having the opportunity to better their lives?

The government should stop lending

Why?

and should allow all debts to be dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Why?

Do you think that there would be a private market for student loans? I doubt it.

There already is. *shrug*

And once you have that situation, you would see the cost of college plummet.

As would the effectiveness, as would the ability of a lower class citizen to better their socio-economic status.

Things don't exist in a vacuum.

And while we're at it, do something about the state of accreditation requirements in this country. What's more important....my knowledge, or a piece of paper promising that I have such knowledge?

I have a VERY long rant regarding this subject. Let's just put it this way...too often one is simply paying for a piece of paper, in which case, why not just let me pay all that I'm supposed to pay upfront and not waste my time?

 

[phattonez]

You joke, but I think its on the horizon.

Voluntary and contractual at first. Probably to pay for education first. Signing a Contract to only work for the company that pays for your degree for a set period of time. Probably at reduced pay.

Then once the precedent is established they will move to debts. Minor crimes.

Even if it doesn't transform into that more explicit form of it, we already have indentured servitude today. That's exactly the situation for those who are stuck with these loans.