Should Squatters Be Allowed to Take People's Homes?

[RetiredUSN]

I own the land directly across the canal from me (120' X 250') and had 3 squatters pitch their tents in the trees. The plot is wooded with light brush growth and I didn't notice them until my dogs started sounding off down at my back fence one morning. I couldn't get the dogs to come into the house so I went down my fence line with my flashlight to see what they were all worked up over. I thought it might be a fox or a racoon. When I beamed my light on the bank and out in the water and sure enough there was some asshole taking a dump at the edge of water across the canal. After daylight I got in my truck and drove over to my plot. It's kinda funny because it's only 100' away by water, but about a mile to get to it in my truck.

Only one guy was there and he was kind of shocked to see a GMC pickup making it's way through the trees up to about a 100 feet away from him. I could see 3 tents, a sterno stove, beers cans, wine bottles, and trash all over the place. I recognized the guy from the I-264 off ramp where he panhandles every day. I had seen him at WaWa a few times as well and I think he kind of recognized me too. So anyways, I told him I was calling the cops if they weren't off the property at the end of the day. To honest, he seemed like a peaceful guy and wasn't being a jerk or provocative. He even told me his name......fake or not.

A day later......still there.

Called my Homeowners Association......... Gotta call the cops. My land on the other side of the canal is for a building easement and not under control of the association.

Called the cops.............nothing Sorry Mr. _________ but we have this going on all over the district and our hands are tied until we get formal notice from upstairs.

Called the city............Need to file eviction notice unless they are presenting a immediate danger. Eviction notice? WTF?

Called a lawyer golf buddy................... Might takes months.

7 days later.......still there. Saw the one guy panhandling at the off ramp that day, and he saw me as well.

One day a couple weeks later, I spotted him walking from the ramp to the WaWa store so I pulled over up the street and waited on him. When I got out of the truck I thought he was going to piss himself or run out into traffic. I told him to calm down and that I wasn't going to hurt him (or his camp mates) I made a offer to him and his camp mates of $300.00 if they would move on, and that I would give them another $50.00 each if they would clean up their mess and put it into some trash bags if I provided them. They agreed. I drove over to my plot the next morning with a rake and some garden trash bags and told them I would be back a 2 that afternoon with the money and If they kept their word the money was theirs. Sure enough they did.

About 3 weeks later I found out through my homeowners association the sneaky bastards had only moved about a 1200 feet down the canal to someone else's property. They had started a fire somehow and the fire dept. was called out.

Oh well.

All I could do was shake my head and laugh.

 

[medi]

My goodness, I sure am way, way out of touch with my native land!

That response from law enforcement is certainly not what I'd expect to be informed of.

Let's see, the last location where I resided before another tour overseas was Ft. Campbell, Kentucky and I wonder what the law was in that area back in the 70s.

Some reason I thought the law on that was so much stricter in all 50 states of the United States.

In fact, I thought the history was that back in the 19th Century a person could be shot for doing such like was described that happened to you, RetiredUSN.

By the way, to show just how ignorant I am, what did that law enforcement gal/bloke mean by "upstairs"? The courts? Civil authorities? Or maybe your frustration level was such that you didn't bother to ask?

 

[molten_dragon]

The laws that allow squatters to do this were passed with good intentions, but they've been taken way too far when they allow things like this to happen. They need to be rolled back some. And unfortunately the people who are legitimately benefitting from these laws won't be able to any more because of the people abusing them.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

It's refusing to leave which is "criminal." That's depriving the owner of other uses for their property (from living in it, to renting it out, to selling it). The act of moving in may be a criminal offense (if they break a lock or a window) but it doesn't deprive the owner of anything.

Well yeah, it deprives the owner of a lock and window

 

[medi]

What if an owner puts bars on the window? And a super heavy duty lock? I mean, just preventing any sort of entry to a residence isn't also illegal in NYC, is it?

Of course, that may seem extreme, but is it illegal?

You know, in the ROK it used to be that so many homes were enclosed within a sort of mini-compound and sometimes a super strong entrance door. Well, "door" of a sort. But I haven't been back there in a fair number of years, so maybe a lot has changed and that is the old style not used so much.

But bars and such like that aren't that uncommon here in Japan. Also sliding cover type things for protecting a window from when typhoons hit. That is way common. And they can be locked. Okay, maybe older homes. I suppose newer, modern apartments don't have that style.

 

[bomberfox]

I think the practical problem with such policy is the short time limit. In order for a property to be considered abandoned we would need longer times for a chance to sell or rent to a tenant. Squatter laws reasonably applied i dont have much of a problem with, they can be used to benefit low income or poor people who work together on dilapidated buildings. I would also change tax laws to encourage improvements instead of what we have now which discourages improvement.

 

[bomberfox]

And they shouldn't!!! Most of the time these people aren't renters; they just moved into an unocupied house and refused to leave. They are all criminals!

For me its the short time frame that makes NY squatting untenable. I dont think we should allow real estate companies to just hold onto unused property forever though.

 

[zincwarrior]

Living in a property does not necessarily deprive the owner of anything. As I said, some squatters actually improve the property, giving it a lick of paint or caring for the garden.

I feel like squatting in Texas may be extremely hazardous to your health.

 

[Lovebug]

Living in a property does not necessarily deprive the owner of anything. As I said, some squatters actually improve the property, giving it a lick of paint or caring for the garden.

Who's paying the taxes and the insurance? In NYC, that can't be a small amount. Surely more than a bucket of paint or a few tulip bulbs.

 

[americanwoman]

I own the land directly across the canal from me (120' X 250') and had 3 squatters pitch their tents in the trees. The plot is wooded with light brush growth and I didn't notice them until my dogs started sounding off down at my back fence one morning. I couldn't get the dogs to come into the house so I went down my fence line with my flashlight to see what they were all worked up over. I thought it might be a fox or a racoon. When I beamed my light on the bank and out in the water and sure enough there was some asshole taking a dump at the edge of water across the canal. After daylight I got in my truck and drove over to my plot. It's kinda funny because it's only 100' away by water, but about a mile to get to it in my truck.

Only one guy was there and he was kind of shocked to see a GMC pickup making it's way through the trees up to about a 100 feet away from him. I could see 3 tents, a sterno stove, beers cans, wine bottles, and trash all over the place. I recognized the guy from the I-264 off ramp where he panhandles every day. I had seen him at WaWa a few times as well and I think he kind of recognized me too. So anyways, I told him I was calling the cops if they weren't off the property at the end of the day. To honest, he seemed like a peaceful guy and wasn't being a jerk or provocative. He even told me his name......fake or not.

A day later......still there.

Called my Homeowners Association......... Gotta call the cops. My land on the other side of the canal is for a building easement and not under control of the association.

Called the cops.............nothing Sorry Mr. _________ but we have this going on all over the district and our hands are tied until we get formal notice from upstairs.

Called the city............Need to file eviction notice unless they are presenting a immediate danger. Eviction notice? WTF?

Called a lawyer golf buddy................... Might takes months.

7 days later.......still there. Saw the one guy panhandling at the off ramp that day, and he saw me as well.

One day a couple weeks later, I spotted him walking from the ramp to the WaWa store so I pulled over up the street and waited on him. When I got out of the truck I thought he was going to piss himself or run out into traffic. I told him to calm down and that I wasn't going to hurt him (or his camp mates) I made a offer to him and his camp mates of $300.00 if they would move on, and that I would give them another $50.00 each if they would clean up their mess and put it into some trash bags if I provided them. They agreed. I drove over to my plot the next morning with a rake and some garden trash bags and told them I would be back a 2 that afternoon with the money and If they kept their word the money was theirs. Sure enough they did.

About 3 weeks later I found out through my homeowners association the sneaky bastards had only moved about a 1200 feet down the canal to someone else's property. They had started a fire somehow and the fire dept. was called out.

Oh well.

All I could do was shake my head and laugh.

Yours is certainly an interesting approach, instead of wasting your time again trying to take the "right" steps you just paid them off your property. It wasn't cheap but sounds like it was worth it. One thing to note that stuck out to me, in another debate here about homeless street campers some people acted like there was no other choice but to pitch a tent on a city street however your story shows that even with enough money to rent a cheap place for themselves and try and pick themselves up, they simply moved on to camp on someone else's property.

 

[cpwill]

I don’t like the idea of squatters, but in a situation where housing and rent costs are what they are, it’s going to happen more and more.

People without means are going to end up somewhere where they aren’t wanted.

That’s the deeper, unaddressed issue here.

It's a self-feeding problem, though. The less that property owners are allowed to have property rights over their property, the less the incentive to invest in it.

The less the incentive to invest in property, the less supply we get.

The less supply we get, the higher the price goes for remaining supply.

 

[cpwill]

Yours is certainly an interesting approach, instead of wasting your time again trying to take the "right" steps you just paid them off your property. It wasn't cheap but sounds like it was worth it. One thing to note that stuck out to me, in another debate here about homeless street campers some people acted like there was no other choice but to pitch a tent on a city street however your story shows that even with enough money to rent a cheap place for themselves and try and pick themselves up, they simply moved on to camp on someone else's property.

I was deployed once with a lawyer who also owned a bunch of rentals as his "business" on the side. That was exactly his approach - he would wait on the curb outside the house with a couple thousand dollars in cash and a locksmith. As soon as the people inside and all their stuff were outside and the locks were changed, they could have the money. He said it was the easiest, least costly way to deal with them.

For some people, this is, apparently, a lifestyle. Living off others, and taking advantage of the fact that those others can no longer rely on the protection of the rule of law.*

* this is a real problem, because, when the government refuses to protect people's rights, it discredits the government, and they turn to self-help options.

 

[GIJane]

I can't believe 2 people didn't vote NO. I bet you wouldn't think that way if that happened to YOU.

 

[Slartibartfast]

It's a self-feeding problem, though. The less that property owners are allowed to have property rights over their property, the less the incentive to invest in it.

The less the incentive to invest in property, the less supply we get.

The less supply we get, the higher the price goes for remaining supply.

Yet if we go too far the other way, we just consolidate wealth into fewer hands, which also exacerbates the problems.

 

[Absentglare]

If you want to get all esoteric and technical with exceptions and easements and rights-of-way, I can't stop you. But I don't have to indulge such quibbling, either.

Buh bye.

You have the right to abandon property and, when and if you do, you may forfeit your “exclusive” access to it. The government can also exercise eminent domain.

 

[choiceone]

Inspired by this story:

A New York City homeowner was arrested for unlawful eviction after arguing with squatters who, she says, stole her $1 million home last month.​

​

The New York Police Department took Adele Andaloro, 47, into custody after she attempted to change the locks on her Queens property that she inherited following her parents’ deaths, ABC Eyewitness News reported Monday. The standoff between Andaloro and the squatters occurred on February 29.​

​

In New York City, squatters can claim tenant rights after living on a property for 30 days. This tenant-protection law is much more generous than the one in New York’s statewide law, which requires squatters to remain on a property for ten years before gaining such rights. A squatter refers to any person who unlawfully occupies an uninhabited building without the landlord’s permission. Under New York City law, homeowners cannot change the locks, switch off utilities, or remove personal items belonging to their tenants from a property....​

This particular case involved two squatters being eventually removed, and then a third individual creating a roadblock by claiming to be a tenant, at which point the police refused to help, and instead arrested the owner:

She was told that the standoff is a landlord-tenant issue, meaning it has to be resolved in housing court rather than through the police. Andaloro indicated she would pursue an eviction filing in landlord-tenant court.​

​

Brian Rodriguez, the allegedly legal tenant, said that is the only way to settle the dispute. “You got to go to court and send me to court,” he said. “Pay me the money and I’ll leave or send me to court.”​

​

However, that might take longer than anticipated. According to the Rent Stabilization Association, resolving an eviction case filed in New York City takes an average of 20 months.....​

You can enjoy the 1947 film It Happened on Fifth Avenue and sympathize with people who live in the rich man's mansion when he isn't there, because of the housing shortage, unreasonable rental conditions, and profit motives of the unmitigated rich.

But in the nasty real world, squatters can turn out to be really nasty people with nasty motives who don't deserve this sympathy.

 

[cpwill]

Yet if we go too far the other way, we just consolidate wealth into fewer hands, which also exacerbates the problems.

...èh?

Propert rights are a major bulwark against the consolidation of wealth into a few hands. It is countries where they are reduced where you see exclusive economic institutions follow political ones (if you would like a moderate-left perspective on this, I can recommend an excellent one)

Consider, for example, eminent domain, which is a deliberate weakening of property rights in this country. Does eminent domain generatllyserve to strengthen the hand of the small home owner, or the large, politically-connected developer?

 

[Lutherf]

Inspired by this story:

A New York City homeowner was arrested for unlawful eviction after arguing with squatters who, she says, stole her $1 million home last month.​

​

The New York Police Department took Adele Andaloro, 47, into custody after she attempted to change the locks on her Queens property that she inherited following her parents’ deaths, ABC Eyewitness News reported Monday. The standoff between Andaloro and the squatters occurred on February 29.​

​

In New York City, squatters can claim tenant rights after living on a property for 30 days. This tenant-protection law is much more generous than the one in New York’s statewide law, which requires squatters to remain on a property for ten years before gaining such rights. A squatter refers to any person who unlawfully occupies an uninhabited building without the landlord’s permission. Under New York City law, homeowners cannot change the locks, switch off utilities, or remove personal items belonging to their tenants from a property....​

This particular case involved two squatters being eventually removed, and then a third individual creating a roadblock by claiming to be a tenant, at which point the police refused to help, and instead arrested the owner:

She was told that the standoff is a landlord-tenant issue, meaning it has to be resolved in housing court rather than through the police. Andaloro indicated she would pursue an eviction filing in landlord-tenant court.​

​

Brian Rodriguez, the allegedly legal tenant, said that is the only way to settle the dispute. “You got to go to court and send me to court,” he said. “Pay me the money and I’ll leave or send me to court.”​

​

However, that might take longer than anticipated. According to the Rent Stabilization Association, resolving an eviction case filed in New York City takes an average of 20 months.....​

Sure. I mean even when I was a kid I knew that "possession was 9/10 of the law" so if you have something, even if it's not yours, you can take it and, under the law, be just fine. Heck, the NYAG just had a HUGE case on that very issue and now she owns all of Donald Trump's stuff so it's GOT to be legal!

 

[Lutherf]

Florida just passed a bill to allow police to evict these miserable thieves almost immediately!

EVERY SINGLE STATE should have this law NOW!

Florida homeowner shares squatter eviction success story: 'We went the right way'

Florida Democrat Patti Peeples would have been able to file misdemeanor and felony charges against her property's squatters had House Bill 621 been passed.

www.foxbusiness.com

Calling them "miserable thieves" is defamatory. They are "people in need" and therefore need to be treated with all the respect and dignity we would afford anyone else (at least anyone not named Trump).

 

[zincwarrior]

So evidently, this OP had a person coming to their deceased parents and being arrested for trying to remove squatters?
I imagine had my wife driven to East Texas and found someone in their home she would have instantly shot the burglars, then called the police.

Is this a real issue in other places?

 

[StillBallin75]

Right wingers, forever worried more about symptoms than root causes.

Because their goal is to control and not actually fix anything.

 

[Moon]

Inspired by this story:

A New York City homeowner was arrested for unlawful eviction after arguing with squatters who, she says, stole her $1 million home last month.​

​

The New York Police Department took Adele Andaloro, 47, into custody after she attempted to change the locks on her Queens property that she inherited following her parents’ deaths, ABC Eyewitness News reported Monday. The standoff between Andaloro and the squatters occurred on February 29.​

​

In New York City, squatters can claim tenant rights after living on a property for 30 days. This tenant-protection law is much more generous than the one in New York’s statewide law, which requires squatters to remain on a property for ten years before gaining such rights. A squatter refers to any person who unlawfully occupies an uninhabited building without the landlord’s permission. Under New York City law, homeowners cannot change the locks, switch off utilities, or remove personal items belonging to their tenants from a property....​

This particular case involved two squatters being eventually removed, and then a third individual creating a roadblock by claiming to be a tenant, at which point the police refused to help, and instead arrested the owner:

She was told that the standoff is a landlord-tenant issue, meaning it has to be resolved in housing court rather than through the police. Andaloro indicated she would pursue an eviction filing in landlord-tenant court.​

​

Brian Rodriguez, the allegedly legal tenant, said that is the only way to settle the dispute. “You got to go to court and send me to court,” he said. “Pay me the money and I’ll leave or send me to court.”​

​

However, that might take longer than anticipated. According to the Rent Stabilization Association, resolving an eviction case filed in New York City takes an average of 20 months.....​

New York is depriving the lawful owners from the enjoyment of their property. Squatters don’t have rights when it comes to property they don’t own.

 

[mrjurrs]

Our last tenant at our home in Mansfield Texas was a sovereign citizen who attempted adverse possession.
I was prepared to go pretty far but thankfully sheriffs made it unnecessary.

Sovereign citizen is another term for anti-American moron.

 

[Mongidig]

Florida just passed a bill to allow police to evict these miserable thieves almost immediately!

EVERY SINGLE STATE should have this law NOW!

Florida homeowner shares squatter eviction success story: 'We went the right way'

Florida Democrat Patti Peeples would have been able to file misdemeanor and felony charges against her property's squatters had House Bill 621 been passed.

www.foxbusiness.com

Why wouldn’t they? It’s bizarre what people are able to get away with.

 

[StillBallin75]

Calling them "miserable thieves" is defamatory. They are "people in need" and therefore need to be treated with all the respect and dignity we would afford anyone else (at least anyone not named Trump).

Curious then, that you support a ACTUAL thief in the Oval Office who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, shits in a gold toilet, has never had any reason to steal, yet steals anyway.

If the hypocrisy couldn't be laid any more bare.

Working class people committing crimes: scum.

Rich people thieving: Presidential material.