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Should somebody go to prison over this?

Should somebody go to prison over this?

  • Yes. Somebody died. Somebody needs to pay.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    34

radcen

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Should somebody go to prison over this?
Girl in hammock killed when pillar collapsed, police say

Girl in hammock killed when pillar collapsed, police say
Is there blame to be assessed? Does somebody need to be punished for this?

- The young girl who died obviously can't pay any more of a higher price.

- How about the older sister? I've been reading about this and hearing about it on radio news, and there's been nothing to suggest she played a part other than simply laying in the hammock.

- The father? Presumably he built the pillar that was unreinforced and without a proper foundation, so... negligence? Should he be charged with something?

What say you?
 

Paleocon

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Should somebody go to prison over this?

Is there blame to be assessed? Does somebody need to be punished for this?

- The young girl who died obviously can't pay any more of a higher price.

- How about the older sister? I've been reading about this and hearing about it on radio news, and there's been nothing to suggest she played a part other than simply laying in the hammock.

- The father? Presumably he built the pillar that was unreinforced and without a proper foundation, so... negligence? Should he be charged with something?

What say you?

The person who set up the hammock should have ascertained the stability of the pillar. Their negligent failure to do so resulted in the death of another person. Consequently the builder of the hammock is guilty of negligent homicide.

I don't think they should go to prison, but jail should definitely be on the table.
 

Skeptic Bob

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No. Accidents happen and sometimes they are disastrous.
 

Paleocon

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No. Accidents happen and sometimes they are disastrous.

A reasonable person setting up a hammock ought to make some effort to ascertain that the hammock's support is secure, no?
 

radcen

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Presuming that it was the father who set up the hammock, and *IF* blame needs to be assessed, then the father is to blame, but...

...there is literally nothing that can match the punishment he has already suffered. There is nothing to be gained by pursuing it. I say let it go.
 

countryboy

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A reasonable person setting up a hammock ought to make some effort to ascertain that the hammock's support is secure, no?

As a person who would execute someone for selling marijuana, your opinion on such matters is less than worthless.

It's a tragic accident, there need be no more punishment than the knowledge that someone was killed due to your own oversight. Call it negligence, if you wish.
 

Captain Adverse

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I voted "other" but I really choose "NO." The no vote option is polluted by that unnecessary qualification simply because it does not matter if "the family has suffered enough."

No one is "responsible." There is no evidence of negligence. This is simply a tragic accident.

Too many people act like every harm is preventable, need to hold someone responsible, want to sue someone.

Sometimes, sh*t just happens. Accept it and move on.
 

Paleocon

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Presuming that it was the father who set up the hammock, and *IF* blame needs to be assessed, then the father is to blame, but...

...there is literally nothing that can match the punishment he has already suffered. There is nothing to be gained by pursuing it. I say let it go.

Should any crime that causes emotional pain to the offender be left unprosecuted?

As a person who would execute someone for selling marijuana, your opinion on such matters is less than worthless.

Red herring.

It's a tragic accident, there need be no more punishment than the knowledge that someone was killed due to your own oversight. Call it negligence, if you wish.

it is negligent, for the reasons which I explained, and you blatantly ignored.

I voted "other" but I really choose "NO." The no vote option is polluted by that unnecessary qualification simply because it does not matter if "the family has suffered enough."

No one is "responsible." There is no evidence of negligence. This is simply a tragic accident.

Too many people act like every harm is preventable, need to hold someone responsible, want to sue someone.

Sometimes, sh*t just happens. Accept it and move on.

A reasonable person setting up a hammock should ascertain the stability of the support, no?

We're not talking about something that couldn't have been ascertained very easily.
 

radcen

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Should any crime that causes emotional pain to the offender be left unprosecuted?
We're not talking in blanket terms, we're talking about this specific case only.

In this case, can you explain what purpose would be served by prosecuting? I can only think of mindless retribution and punishment. Do you believe there is another more meaningful purpose?
 

Captain Adverse

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A reasonable person setting up a hammock should ascertain the stability of the support, no?

We're not talking about something that couldn't have been ascertained very easily.

Really?

What part of the information provided showed the installation was faulty when the hammock was first installed? Or how long had it been hanging there before this accident happened? Or if it was set up for a certain weight and the jumping of another exuberant teenager made the difference? Or any of a number of other questions that show it was just the right set of circumstances at the right time that made this happen?

Jail daddy because he didn't check every day? Jail mommy because she didn't make him? Charge the surviving daughter with negligent homicide? Try to sue the original property owner or the installer? Geez.

Like I said, sometimes sh*t happens and you just have to let it go.
 

Kal'Stang

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A reasonable person setting up a hammock should ascertain the stability of the support, no?

We're not talking about something that couldn't have been ascertained very easily.

From the article:

Eren Sagun told authorities that she was in the hammock when her sister, Peri, jumped into it causing the column to collapse. The bricks collapsed onto Peri Sagun's head.

According to the article Peri's sister was laying in the hammock when Peri jumped into the hammock. Obviously that brick column was strong enough to hold someone just laying in it. So based on that you really have no idea if the father did test the stability and found it fine for laying in a hammock. The unexpected part was Peri jumping onto her sister that was already in the hammock. You have no reason to believe that the father didn't test out the hammock to make sure someone could lay in it safely as the sister obviously was doing just that.

There is no blame to be had by anyone in this situation. It was a tragic accident and nothing more. If anyone were to press charges not only would they be doing so just to rack up a "win" for their resume they'd be dirtbag scum that should be fired.
 

TurtleDude

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Should any crime that causes emotional pain to the offender be left unprosecuted?



Red herring.



it is negligent, for the reasons which I explained, and you blatantly ignored.



A reasonable person setting up a hammock should ascertain the stability of the support, no?

We're not talking about something that couldn't have been ascertained very easily.

God should be indicted for failing to prevent this tragedy
 

KevinKohler

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**** happens. Should the dude who happens to be standing by when the **** inevitably does happen be held responsible for said **** happening?
 

justabubba

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I voted "other" but I really choose "NO." The no vote option is polluted by that unnecessary qualification simply because it does not matter if "the family has suffered enough."

No one is "responsible." There is no evidence of negligence. This is simply a tragic accident.

Too many people act like every harm is preventable, need to hold someone responsible, want to sue someone.

Sometimes, sh*t just happens. Accept it and move on.

clearly, this situation WAS preventable

unfortunately, the builder's skills were inadequate. but nothing indicates he was cognizant of that inadequacy. thus, to him, the failure was unforeseeable

what would be just punishment for a man whose daughter is now dead because he was an inadequate mason
 

Paleocon

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We're not talking in blanket terms, we're talking about this specific case only.

In this case, can you explain what purpose would be served by prosecuting? I can only think of mindless retribution and punishment. Do you believe there is another more meaningful purpose?

The purpose of prosecuting negligent homicide is to deter negligent actions.

It's occurred to me since my earlier comments that we don't really have enough information to make a judgment, but in any case my objection to your argument remains valid. The effect that a (possible) crime has on the offender is irrelevant to whether he should be prosecuted.

Really?

What part of the information provided showed the installation was faulty when the hammock was first installed? Or how long had it been hanging there before this accident happened? Or if it was set up for a certain weight and the jumping of another exuberant teenager made the difference? Or any of a number of other questions that show it was just the right set of circumstances at the right time that made this happen?

Jail daddy because he didn't check every day? Jail mommy because she didn't make him? Charge the surviving daughter with negligent homicide? Try to sue the original property owner or the installer? Geez.

Like I said, sometimes sh*t happens and you just have to let it go.

I'm not sure where you got all that from. I certainly didn't say it.

I'm going off the limited information available from the article. The impression I got was that the pillar was not secured, and therefore shouldn't have been weighted to the side by a hammock. If the pillar was originally secure but got eroded over time or the like, then sure, it's an accident.

From the article:



According to the article Peri's sister was laying in the hammock when Peri jumped into the hammock. Obviously that brick column was strong enough to hold someone just laying in it. So based on that you really have no idea if the father did test the stability and found it fine for laying in a hammock. The unexpected part was Peri jumping onto her sister that was already in the hammock. You have no reason to believe that the father didn't test out the hammock to make sure someone could lay in it safely as the sister obviously was doing just that.

There is no blame to be had by anyone in this situation. It was a tragic accident and nothing more. If anyone were to press charges not only would they be doing so just to rack up a "win" for their resume they'd be dirtbag scum that should be fired.

You are right that we don't have all the facts, but that doesn't mean your position is correct, just that we can't ascertain the correct one.
 

radcen

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The purpose of prosecuting negligent homicide is to deter negligent actions.

It's occurred to me since my earlier comments that we don't really have enough information to make a judgment, but in any case my objection to your argument remains valid. The effect that a (possible) crime has on the offender is irrelevant to whether he should be prosecuted.
Your position presumes that potential for prosecution over negligence is a bigger punishment and/or deterrent than losing one's daughter. Is that correct? How would you rank the two?
 

Paleocon

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Your position presumes that potential for prosecution over negligence is a bigger punishment and/or deterrent than losing one's daughter. Is that correct? How would you rank the two?

My position is that the law can't exempt people from punishment for otherwise punishable acts because they harmed themselves in the process.

I assume you agree with the general principle that negligent homicide should be punished.
 

justabubba

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My position is that the law can't exempt people from punishment for otherwise punishable acts because they harmed themselves in the process.

I assume you agree with the general principle that negligent homicide should be punished.

did the mason take on a project for which he was under-qualified
from the limited information available, it appears that may have been the case
but a reasonable standard should be applied
the mason did not know what he did not know
he did not intentionally take a shortcut that resulted in this tragedy
the inadequate construction was the result of his ignorance
and - to me - his ignorance for someone who was untrained in engineering techniques [my presumption] was not unreasonable
if we learn that he did have reason to know that his brick pylon was under-engineered, then that would change things. in that instance, he took a shortcut with the knowledge that the construction method used was inadequate
but again, it appears that the father did not know what he did not know
and he could not foresee the potential for the structural failure that did result
 

Paleocon

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did the mason take on a project for which he was under-qualified
from the limited information available, it appears that may have been the case
but a reasonable standard should be applied
the mason did not know what he did not know
he did not intentionally take a shortcut that resulted in this tragedy
the inadequate construction was the result of his ignorance
and - to me - his ignorance for someone who was untrained in engineering techniques [my presumption] was not unreasonable
if we learn that he did have reason to know that his brick pylon was under-engineered, then that would change things. in that instance, he took a shortcut with the knowledge that the construction method used was inadequate
but again, it appears that the father did not know what he did not know
and he could not foresee the potential for the structural failure that did result

If anyone is a t fault here, it'd be the builder of the hammock, not the pillar.
 

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In this particular situation no, nobody needs punishment. It is just a disastrous accident and the family should be allowed to grieve and possibly move on if they can.
 

justabubba

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If anyone is a t fault here, it'd be the builder of the hammock, not the pillar.

i don't understand
why would the manufacturer of the hammock be culpable for the tragedy
 

radcen

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My position is that the law can't exempt people from punishment for otherwise punishable acts because they harmed themselves in the process.

I assume you agree with the general principle that negligent homicide should be punished.
(Presuming the father is the one who installed the hammock)

What's the purpose in pressing charges here, in this specific case? What do we gain? What does the father learn that he hasn't already learned by his daughter's death? Is there something to be gained for society? Is there some lesson the father will learn? Is the whole point just to show the world that we're morally and unemotionally consistent in meting out our punishment?
 

Paleocon

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i don't understand
why would the manufacturer of the hammock be culpable for the tragedy

The person who installed it.

(Presuming the father is the one who installed the hammock)

What's the purpose in pressing charges here, in this specific case? What do we gain? What does the father learn that he hasn't already learned by his daughter's death? Is there something to be gained for society? Is there some lesson the father will learn? Is the whole point just to show the world that we're morally and unemotionally consistent in meting out our punishment?

First, I should clarify that this is dependent on actual negligence having occurred, which from the article we don't have enough information to judge (through the local authorities certainly do).

Let me ask, assuming negligence to have occurred, would you object to prosecution if someone other than the father, say a handyman (the pertinent quality being someone uninvested emotionally in the situation), installed it?
 

justabubba

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He's said this several times, and I interpret his words to mean the person who installed the hammock.

but that makes no sense
might as well prosecute the manufacturer of the brick used to (improperly) construct the pylon
makes as little sense
 
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