Should schools teach proper history?

[j brown's body]

If it's vague then the headline should be "Florida passes vague law" rather than the propaganda that was posted.

"Florida passes education law appropriate for totalitaruan regimes "

 

[Peter]

Yep - loaded term, especially when it comes to history.

Some will say "proper" history is only that which depicts America as a beacon of freeberty, rainbows, and Baby Jesus.
Others will say "proper" history is only that which depicts America as the Great Satan.

The truth is obviously much more complicated than either, but right now America has injected partisan politics into education to such a degree that I suspect a comprehensive, accurate, and honest look at history is impossible.

History isn't good or bad though.
The US has both some of the best and worst aspects of history.
From the soaring speeches of Kennedy about the Moon missions to the horrors of Vietnam, it's all there for us all to see.

History should be honest and open and give context to why things happened.

 

[LouC]

In order to do that you have to privatize schools governments make the curriculum governments approve the textbooks and they write themselves in as being the hero because they control the narrative.

I'm glad this can be a teachable moment for you. When you put the government in charge of something it does what the government wants not what you want and not what you think is right or proper.

Definitely that is all arguable.

 

[Josie]

He said there were differences. I'm trying to figure out what he thinks they were. I'm sure he doesn't need you to come to his rescue.

In my experience, he doesn't tend to explain or debate his positions.

 

[CLAX1911]

Definitely that is all arguable.

So argue it if you wish

 

[The Mark]

Even if that history paints America in a very, very bad light.

Historically, history...or rather a specific spin on it...has been a propaganda tool.

IMO we should teach the best current understanding of history, and include repeated mention of the gaps in our understanding of it and why they exist.
Things like "this is based on a book written by this person in this time, and all indications are that historical writings from that period were usually hyperbolic and/or exaggerated for effect in various ways.
Or "based on this book written at this time by this person, who was employed by the Duke of ****nowswhere to paint his past ****ery in a better light."

Stuff like that.

 

[Ren]

Even if that history paints America in a very, very bad light.

America isn't going away, socialist, so these sneaky pro-new world order fantasy threads won't work.

 

[jpevans]

What is "proper history"?
And what is im-proper history?

I hope that proper means actual, be it good bad or indifferent. From the genocide of Native people to the moon landing. Of course not everything can be taught, just for time constraints, but a representative overview of the good, the bad & the ugly.

 

[jpevans]

Who’s version of proper history, yours or mine?

I don't know, what is yours? They might be the same.

 

[jpevans]

I'm not sure if its law yet, but Florida is pushing for bans on education that makes white people feel bad.

Florida is a semi tropical state full of snowflakes.

 

[LouC]

So argue it if you wish

Will do.

If I wish.

 

[Bodi]

Even if that history paints America in a very, very bad light.

This already happens...

 

[Bodi]

Proper history is correctly accurate factual history.

Improper is inaccurate.

Schools already teach proper history.

 

[Bodi]

We can start at the beginning: America was founded on genocide and slavery, which has had systemic ramifications until present day.

America was not "founded" on that... it is part of it though, and it is taught, as is freeing the slaves, giving rights to men and later women, etc.

 

[Bodi]

Bill to ban lessons making white students feel ‘discomfort’ advances in Florida Senate

A Florida state Senate committee on Thursday advanced a bill that would prohibit making white people feel “discomfort” when taught or trained about past discrimination in public schools…

thehill.com

"A Florida state Senate committee on Thursday advanced a bill that would prohibit making white people feel "discomfort" when taught or trained about past discrimination in public schools and private businesses.

The bill, S.B. 148, would prevent school educators from teaching subjects that could make students feel responsible for historical wrongs based on their race, sex or national origin.

In private businesses, training or employment practices that make an individual feel uncomfortable on similar grounds could be subject to a company lawsuit for unlawful employment practices."

There is a link to the actual bill in the article.

It doesn't say that. It says:

"Required Instruction in Public Schools Each district school board is responsible for providing all courses required for middle grades promotion, high school graduation, and appropriate instruction designed to ensure that students meet State Board of Education (SBE) adopted standards in reading and other language arts, mathematics, science, social studies, foreign languages, health and physical education, and the arts.7

Public school teachers are required to teach efficiently and faithfully, using the books and materials required that meet the highest standards for professionalism and historical accuracy, and employing approved methods of instruction, certain prescribed courses of study, including health education and character development.8

The SBE is encouraged to adopt standards and pursue assessment of the requirements for prescribed courses of study and methods of instruction employed by public school teachers.9 SBE rule regarding required instruction and reporting requires that instruction on the required topics must be factual and objective, and may not suppress or distort significant historical events, such as the Holocaust, slavery, the Civil War and Reconstruction, the civil rights movement and the contributions of women, African American and Hispanic people to our country. 10 Examples of theories that distort historical events and are inconsistent with SBE-approved standards include the denial or minimization of the Holocaust, and the teaching of Critical Race Theory, meaning the theory that racism is not merely the product of prejudice, but that racism is embedded in American society and its legal systems in order to uphold the supremacy of white persons.11 Instruction may not utilize material from the 1619 Project12 and may not define American history as something other than the creation of a new nation based largely on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.

...

A reviewer may not recommend any instructional materials that contain any matter reflecting unfairly upon persons because of their race, color, creed, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, disability, socioeconomic status, or occupation "

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/148/Analyses/2022s00148.pre.ed.PDF

 

[Bodi]

There is a link to the actual bill in the article.

Continued...

"White House Executive Order In 2020, President Trump issued an Executive Order prohibiting divisive concepts, race or sex stereotyping, and race or sex scapegoating in the Executive Branch. The order defined divisive concepts as concepts that:38
 One race or sex is inherently superior to another race or sex.
 The United States is fundamentally racist or sexist.
 An individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.
 An individual should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment solely or partly because of his or her race or sex.
 Members of one race or sex cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race or sex.
 An individual's moral character is necessarily determined by his or her race or sex.
 An individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.
 Any individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race or sex.
 Meritocracy or traits such as a hard work ethic are racist or sexist, or were created by a particular race to oppress another race.
 Promote race or sex stereotyping, which means ascribing character traits, values, moral and ethical codes, privileges, status, or beliefs to a race or sex, or to an individual because of his or her race or sex.
 Promote race or sex scapegoating, which means assigning fault, blame, or bias to a race or sex, or to members of a race or sex because of their race or sex. It similarly encompasses any claim that, consciously or unconsciously, and by virtue of his or her race or sex, members of any race are inherently racist or are inherently inclined to oppress others, or that members of a sex are inherently sexist or inclined to oppress others. "

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/148/Analyses/2022s00148.pre.ed.PDF

 

[Peacenik]

Schools already teach proper history.

It is not apparent. Our country is full of a lot of people who know nothing about our country. Schools have a lot of work to do.

 

[Bodi]

It is not apparent. Our country is full of a lot of people who know nothing about our country. Schools have a lot of work to do.

No. Students do. They have to care. They have to think about it. They don't. They care about making stupid tongue sticking out pictures on tik-toc, posting stupid gossip on Instagram, Kim Kardashian, Mind Craft, COD, etc. They don't care about the ratification of the Constitution or how we gained the Louisiana Territory or the Trail of Tears or women's suffrage. Sorry, whenever I see people blaming teachers I can generally point to a person that did not do well in school.

 

[CLAX1911]

Will do.

If I wish.

Or if you can.

 

[LouC]

Or if you can.

Oh, believe me I can, if I wish.

 

[CLAX1911]

Oh, believe me I can, if I wish.

Sure.

 

[LouC]

Sure.

Ayup!

 

[CLAX1911]

Ayup!

Sure.

 

[LouC]

Sure.

Most definitely.

 

[NWRatCon]

Bill to ban lessons making white students feel ‘discomfort’ advances in Florida Senate

A Florida state Senate committee on Thursday advanced a bill that would prohibit making white people feel “discomfort” when taught or trained about past discrimination in public schools…

thehill.com

"A Florida state Senate committee on Thursday advanced a bill that would prohibit making white people feel "discomfort" when taught or trained about past discrimination in public schools and private businesses.

The bill, S.B. 148, would prevent school educators from teaching subjects that could make students feel responsible for historical wrongs based on their race, sex or national origin.

In private businesses, training or employment practices that make an individual feel uncomfortable on similar grounds could be subject to a company lawsuit for unlawful employment practices."

There is a link to the actual bill in the article.

Some people pretend to "not know" as a device to troll a thread. I appreciate the reference, though. It demonstrates "accurate" history, whereas the bill would promote "sanitized" historical revisionism.