Should public schools lead students in political speech/protest?

[apdst]

No, I don't think public schools should lead kids to do anything like that.

They should, however, step aside and let students protest if they choose to, without fear of suspension or corporal punishment.

Not on campus, nor during school hours. What the students do off campus, when school is out is their business.

 

[BreadConqueror]

Absolutely not. Schools shouldn't lead students in any political rally or even allow political rallies on school grounds. If you do allow a certain political rally, then the school also has to allow ALL political rallies. Just as schools cannot allow for one religious group to convene on campus, but not another religious group. Political rallies and protests have no place in or at public schools. All students participating should be given an unexcused absence for the time periods they missed.

They are PUBLIC schools. These are the places where the freedom to assemble should be most appreciated and protected. Speech must be the most free and the most protected.

Additionally, if students choose to take political action, they should be allowed to do so. Outside groups cannot come to campus, but those students should be allowed to assemble as they choose.

The KKK is a hate group, there message should not be allowed on campus, but speech which is not hateful and aggressive should be allowed.That's not a difficult position to understand.

And your statement about religion is wrong. Any student can gather in a religious way, no one can stop them. That is a fundamental freedom.

 

[antiquity]

So if a group of students wanted to stage a disruptive (by walking out) protest in favor of the second amendment, you advocate for no consequences in that case as well?

Actually that happened in our high school...while the majority did protest against guns another group protested the protesters and the right to bear arms.

 

[Moderate Right]

Snopes:



Schools do teach critical thinking skills, though, such as separating fact and opinion, knowing when opinion is supported by fact and when it's not, recognizing biased writing, all skills that are likely to lead them to reject the extremist right wing ideas.

So, you have a point, sort of.

They should also be taught to reject extremist left wing ideas but the left and the teaching profession don't believe there are any extremist left wing ideas.

 

[antiquity]

No, they shouldn’t lead such things. Now, if the school knows a significant percentage of the student body is going to be participating and the school decides to offer up a safe place for it to happen, like the football field, and they want to work the class schedule around to minimize disruption then I am ok with that.

I agree...but shouldn't the protesters know what they are protesting and not just a chance to get out of class. Teachers have influence on young student's minds and leading students to protest and furthering the teacher's agenda is wrong.

 

[Evilroddy]

That's from the New York Times which hardly known as a right wing, pro gun publication.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/us/school-walkout.html

Do you support public schools leading kid in political speech? Poll on the way.

X-Factor:

The tricky bit is what is meant by "lead". If the teachers and schools are leading the students as facilitators for issues the students feel strongly about themselves and if the school is effectively teaching hands-on political activism in the service of student-led causes, then that seems fine to me.

If, however, the schools and teachers are using the students as a tool to advance causes which the students themselves do not support or are indifferent to, then that is not okay. Worse still, if the students are being indoctrinated towards specific directions of student activism and thus being used as political pawns for others' causes, then that is wrong in the extreme.

My answer (Yes) to the poll assumed that the first condition of mentorship and helping students to realise their own potential in political activism in the service of student-driven issues is what's going on here for the gun-control movement, for the most part.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Fiddytree]

They should also be taught to reject extremist left wing ideas but the left and the teaching profession don't believe there are any extremist left wing ideas.

*raises eyebrow*

The teaching profession has some 2.5 million teachers K-12. Aside from a fondness of teacher unions, theres a hell of a lot more variety in teacher politics than you give it credit for.

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[antiquity]

*raises eyebrow*

The teaching profession has some 2.5 million teachers K-12. Aside from a fondness of teacher unions, theres a hell of a lot more variety in teacher politics than you give it credit for.

Here is why you are wrong...K-12 teachers shouldn't be teaching a teacher's political agenda to their students. Stick to the class room subjects they are hired for.

 

[Fiddytree]

Here is why you are wrong...K-12 teachers shouldn't be teaching a teacher's political agenda to their students. Stick to the class room subjects they are hired for.

They "shouldn't" but they almost inevitably inform students about their social and political inclinations one way or the other.

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[Evilroddy]

They should also be taught to reject extremist left wing ideas but the left and the teaching profession don't believe there are any extremist left wing ideas.

Moderate Right:

Should students also be taught to be very skeptical about right-wing issues and ideas espoused by so many Americans? To me the answer is not to programme students into rejecting any ideological position but rather to give them the knowledge, skills and apolitical guidance to come to their own decisions about what they should believe or reject on the right-left spectrum. Student psychology being what it is, teaching kids to reject a group of ideas is the best way to make those ideas alluring to young and rebellious minds. If you want to radicalise your youth tell them they can't believe in something and watch them flock to that political camp.

I would also like someone, not necessarily you, to define what Americans mean by "extremist left-wing ideas". Is environmental activism to protect a quality of life for future generations of Americans a left-wing idea? Are anti-militarism and anti-imperialism and opposing excessive military and national security spending left-wing ideas? Is wanting to protect millions of illegal immigrants in the USA from highly disruptive and arbitrary mass deportation leading to social upheaval in both America and in the countries they are expelled to by the millions a left-wing idea? Are wanting comprehensive and low cost health care that covers all Ameicans and fully-funded public schools which teach students of all descriptions and income levels to a satisfactory level left-wing ideas? To me left-wing means socialism, Marxism, Communism, Stalinism and Maoism for the most part. Things like feminism, wider gender issues, environmentalism, anti-militarism, and building public social infrastructure to protect and educate Americans are not left-right issues but social issues with no political lean on the spectrum of left or right.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Fiddytree]

They "shouldn't" but they almost inevitably inform students about their social and political inclinations one way or the other.

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I should say this was originally supposed to be about the teaching body's political orientations. Teachers, like anyone else, have personal preferences and ideologies. I was saying it's not accurate to suggest 2.5 million people have distinctly liberal attitudes.

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[Moderate Right]

*raises eyebrow*

The teaching profession has some 2.5 million teachers K-12. Aside from a fondness of teacher unions, theres a hell of a lot more variety in teacher politics than you give it credit for.

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It was mostly schools who organized the recent walkout, not students.

 

[Fiddytree]

It was mostly schools who organized the recent walkout.

No, schools were mostly responding to a groundswell of student activism. Some schools were more active in support than most, some were antagonistic toward students.

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[Evilroddy]

Here is why you are wrong...K-12 teachers shouldn't be teaching a teacher's political agenda to their students. Stick to the class room subjects they are hired for.

antiquity:

Sorry to butt in but teachers should teach their own political views as well as those political views they oppose and they should teach these all with impartial political objectivity. What they should not do is try to promote one set of political ideas over another, even at the behest of the state. Teachers should also teach students the knowledge, intellectual skills and good character to both make their own political decisions for themselves and to respect others who come to different political conclusions. Widening the spectrum of learning and the means for students to evaluate, process and internalise that information is always better than attempting to constrict what students can learn by denying them access to ideas which the powers that be reject but which the students themselves will encounter anyway outside of the classroom. This creates a false social construct and causes students to smell hypocrisy and question the validity, reliability and value of their education in the long run.

Sticking to a state created and mandated curriculum which straight-jackets students to one societal point of view is just as invalid as teachers indoctrinating students to their own political alignment. As a teacher you must teach the state mandated curriculum content but you should not be limited to it and should be allowed to go beyond it in order to give your students the widest and deepest educational experience which you as a teacher can offer them. Pigeon-holing students and teachers into tightly defined and controlled "subjects" which limit their learning is just plain wrong. Do we want to teach our students to be independently minded citizens or just train them to be nearly mindless and compliant drones who serve a set of narrow societal interests?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Moderate Right]

Moderate Right:

Should students also be taught to be very skeptical about right-wing issues and ideas espoused by so many Americans? To me the answer is not to programme students into rejecting any ideological position but rather to give them the knowledge, skills and apolitical guidance to come to their own decisions about what they should believe or reject on the right-left spectrum. Student psychology being what it is, teaching kids to reject a group of ideas is the best way to make those ideas alluring to young and rebellious minds. If you want to radicalise your youth tell them they can't believe in something and watch them flock to that political camp.

I would also like someone, not necessarily you, to define what Americans mean by "extremist left-wing ideas". Is environmental activism to protect a quality of life for future generations of Americans a left-wing idea? Are anti-militarism and anti-imperialism and opposing excessive military and national security spending left-wing ideas? Is wanting to protect millions of illegal immigrants in the USA from highly disruptive and arbitrary mass deportation leading to social upheaval in both America and in the countries they are expelled to by the millions a left-wing idea? Are wanting comprehensive and low cost health care that covers all Ameicans and fully-funded public schools which teach students of all descriptions and income levels to a satisfactory level left-wing ideas? To me left-wing means socialism, Marxism, Communism, Stalinism and Maoism for the most part. Things like feminism, wider gender issues, environmentalism, anti-militarism, and building public social infrastructure to protect and educate Americans are not left-right issues but social issues with no political lean on the spectrum of left or right.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Let's face the truth. Adults, including teachers, brainwash children into thinking the way that those adults want these kids to think. It's a big con job, on all sides from both the right and the left. The kids are taught to search for the truth but they are taught to find the truth that the teacher wants them to find. The kids are led down the path that the adults want to lead them down. This not only goes for private religious schools but liberal public schools and colleges as well. That's what a con is all about. The conned person thinks that they discovered this all on their own through "education" when all along they were just led down the path that the conners wanted to lead them down.

 

[Moderate Right]

No, schools were mostly responding to a groundswell of student activism. Some schools were more active in support than most, some were antagonistic toward students.

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Most schools gave the ok to students to protest and made it easy for them. That's rubberstamping liberal policies. And the schools that didn't rubberstamp the protests were accused of antagonizing students.

 

[Fiddytree]

Most schools gave the ok to students to protest and made it easy for them. That's rubberstamping liberal policies. And the schools that didn't rubberstamp the protests were accused of antagonizing students.

*rolls eyes*

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[Evilroddy]

Let's face the truth. Adults, including teachers, brainwash children into thinking the way that those adults want these kids to think. It's a big con job, on all sides from both the right and the left. The kids are taught to search for the truth but they are taught to find the truth that the teacher wants them to find. The kids are led down the path that the adults want to lead them down. This not only goes for private religious schools but liberal public schools and colleges as well. That's what a con is all about. The conned person thinks that they discovered this all on their own through "education" when all along they were just led down the path that the conners wanted to lead them down.

Moderate Right:

What you describe has almost never been the case in my classroom and in very few classrooms of my many colleagues. If it does happen then other teachers gently nudge the shills and proselytisers towards neutrality or confront them with administrative action if they are too egregious and determined to indoctrinate those students under their guidance. Most teachers I know both reject and are offended when the classroom is used as a bully-pulpit for any kind of ideological conditioning or social engineering. The only "pushing" we legitimately do is the fostering of a desire to learn and to become the most well-rounded person upon reaching graduation day.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Fearandloathing]

That's from the New York Times which hardly known as a right wing, pro gun publication.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/us/school-walkout.html

Do you support public schools leading kid in political speech? Poll on the way.

Knowing what I know now, I would sue.

Regardless whether you support gun control, and I do, these "activists" have no right using their authority in the classroom to make a political point.

I would charge that they are brainwashing, and demand damages for that part of the education curriculum I was NOT getting.

I suspect that would draw 'the mob' of TV cameras and reporters.

And they will have learned other people's views on issues are none of their business and they cannot use their paid platform to air their collective views.

 

[VanceMack]

Should there be any parameters to these protests or the kids can walk out to protest anytime, for any length of time and however many times they want without punishment?

I think they should be able to, along your earlier stated guidelines. Don’t disrupt other students, don’t force or coerce, but they should receive unexcused absences for any time missed.


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[VanceMack]

The in-school protests over gun control have set a precedent. If students want to take time during school to demonstrate or protest civilly for another reason, who's to say they can't?

Now what happens when they conduct sit-ins to protest homework? Or when they start demanding faculty be fired because they don’t like them?

It’s not appropriate for the school to take an affirmative stand on the protests IMO. They have the right to protest...in appropriate venues, and with normal consequences.


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[MrWonka]

That's from the New York Times which hardly known as a right-wing, pro-gun publication.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/us/school-walkout.html

Do you support public schools leading kid in political speech? Poll on the way.

I skimmed the article.

Where exactly does it say public schools were leading children in political speech? All I found was this...

"Principals and superintendents seemed disinclined to stop them. Some were outright supportive, though others warned that students would face disciplinary consequences for leaving school. At many schools, teachers and parents joined in."

Being supportive and or joining in is very different than leading.

As a general rule a school should try and remain as neutral as possible in these things, but this a very specific problem that directly affects the lives of students and teachers in the same way. This isn't something where the teachers are asking for more money or benefits or something. Every teacher, student, and parent has to go to school every day wondering if this is the day they're going to be next. It is the school's responsibility to do what they can to protect students who are attending their facility, and if they have to protest in order to have action taken then I can't see a big problem with it.

 

[Parrish]

Looks to me that those who "charge" that schools led the protests are just spouting NRA-type tactics to neutralize and detract from the outstanding leadership of students who organized the walkouts and their support by millions of citizens who want action on school and community gun violence.

 

[faithful_servant]

No, I don't think public schools should lead kids to do anything like that.

They should, however, step aside and let students protest if they choose to, without fear of suspension or corporal punishment.

No, they shouldn't... Doing so is no different than leading them onto the field. Breaking the rules has consequences and when you create an atmosphere where those rules have no consequences you are setting your school up for bigger problems than this.

 

[faithful_servant]

No, they shouldn’t lead such things. Now, if the school knows a significant percentage of the student body is going to be participating and the school decides to offer up a safe place for it to happen, like the football field, and they want to work the class schedule around to minimize disruption then I am ok with that.

Why should it matter how many kids are protesting?? Isn't the voice of one lone kid standing against the tide of conformity worth just as much as 400 chanting in unison??