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Courts use the Shock the Conscience Test. I am fine with it as is, though if I were a Judge, I would probably have a lower threshold for what shocks the conscience than what some seem to have.
I think I know what you're talking about, but could you elaborate a bit on what "shock the conscience" is? Thanks.
Should police be allowed to lie in investigations?
As it is now, police are legally allowed to lie in investigations and interrogations. Ours is one of the few 'first world' countries that allows this. Most do not. Before you answer I need to make some qualifications to the question...
Included in the question:
- Saying, "Johnny said you killed Joe!", when in fact Johnny never said such a thing.
- Saying, "You failed the polygraph! Now, tell us the truth.", when in fact the person passed the polygraph.
These types of lies are legally allowed in interrogations.
Not included in the question:
- A person asking an undercover cop, "Are you a cop?". To me, this is fine for the undercover cop to lie and say 'no', though I do have issues with how some undercover operations are done in general, but that's another subject for another thread.
So, should police be allowed to lie in investigations?
Should police be allowed to lie in investigations?
As it is now, police are legally allowed to lie in investigations and interrogations. Ours is one of the few 'first world' countries that allows this. Most do not. Before you answer I need to make some qualifications to the question...
Included in the question:
- Saying, "Johnny said you killed Joe!", when in fact Johnny never said such a thing.
- Saying, "You failed the polygraph! Now, tell us the truth.", when in fact the person passed the polygraph.
These types of lies are legally allowed in interrogations.
Not included in the question:
- A person asking an undercover cop, "Are you a cop?". To me, this is fine for the undercover cop to lie and say 'no', though I do have issues with how some undercover operations are done in general, but that's another subject for another thread.
So, should police be allowed to lie in investigations?
By this reasoning, suspects should be allowed to lie to police as they're not under oath either. If police are allowed to lie then they're actually being held to a lower standard.Yes, cops should be able to lie. They're not under oath. Why should they be held to a higher standard than anyone else? Only guilty people are trapped by lies. An innocent person isn't EVER going to say, "Oh my GOD!! My friend lied and said I did it!! Even though I didn't, I'd better confess!!"
Yes, cops should be able to lie. They're not under oath. Why should they be held to a higher standard than anyone else? Only guilty people are trapped by lies.
I am sure a lot of people would confess to a crime they didn't do if they honestly thought the police had evidence on them and that the only way out of it or to get a lighter sentence is to confess.An innocent person isn't EVER going to say, "Oh my GOD!! My friend lied and said I did it!! Even though I didn't, I'd better confess!!"
Happens more often than some would like to think. Draconian mandatory minimum sentences that make guilty plea deals look even more attractive... even to the innocent... don't help.I am sure a lot of people would confess to a crime they didn't do if they honestly thought the police had evidence on them and that the only way out of it or to get a lighter sentence is to confess.
By this reasoning, suspects should be allowed to lie to police as they're not under oath either. If police are allowed to lie then they're actually being held to a lower standard.
Legally allowed, just to be clear.
I am sure a lot of people would confess to a crime they didn't do if they honestly thought the police had evidence on them and that the only way out of it or to get a lighter sentence is to confess.
Suspects can lie to police. It's not against the law to lie to them. Cops can't arrest you because you lie to them. Can't prosecute you for lying to them either. (Federal agents -- different story)
Should police be allowed to lie in investigations?
As it is now, police are legally allowed to lie in investigations and interrogations. Ours is one of the few 'first world' countries that allows this. Most do not. Before you answer I need to make some qualifications to the question...
Included in the question:
- Saying, "Johnny said you killed Joe!", when in fact Johnny never said such a thing.
- Saying, "You failed the polygraph! Now, tell us the truth.", when in fact the person passed the polygraph.
These types of lies are legally allowed in interrogations.
Not included in the question:
- A person asking an undercover cop, "Are you a cop?". To me, this is fine for the undercover cop to lie and say 'no', though I do have issues with how some undercover operations are done in general, but that's another subject for another thread.
So, should police be allowed to lie in investigations?
When a suspect is in custody, the police should not be permitted to lie to them. Police should NEVER be allowed to lie about the content of the law, standards of proof, or common court practices. And certainly not make up evidence to coerce a confession out of someone. The OP's example of an undercover cop who must lie for self-protection is an obvious exception, but there's really no reason why a cop should ever lie to anyone during the course of their duties.
Suspects can lie to police. It's not against the law to lie to them. Cops can't arrest you because you lie to them. Can't prosecute you for lying to them either. (Federal agents -- different story)
There are, in fact, quite a few situations where exactly that has happened. Or even people who did do the crime, but the evidence against them is really thin, and they only confess because the police lie about additional evidence. That person's right to only be convicted by a standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" has been grossly infringed, opening the door to such abuses on the aforementioned innocent as well. The idea that only guilty people have anything to hide is naive at best and dangerous at worst.
Sure they can. It's called obstruction of justice.
I'm not a fan of cops. But I'm not a fan of bad guys either.
I'm a fan of freedom and liberty and I think that perchance the degree to which we allow the government to coerce and threaten until they get the punishment/charge they want has gone well over the line and now works against our very liberty this government was created to protect.
Yes, we all loves us that liberty.
But this is a narrow and specific topic. Can a policeman lie while investigating a crime? The answer is YES and I happen to agree. Can anyone lie other than the cop interrogating the suspect. No, they can't. If they do, I'll switch sides.
Can he? Yes, of course. Is it legal? Of course, the government isn't going to prosecute itself in its desire to dominate us all. Should they? Absolutely not. It's a form of coercion and entrapment.
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