Should Muslims be permitted to enter the United States

[Republican]

I would be a hypocrit if I said no, because I have a muslim friend living here, but I do believe it's okay to do major back ground checks and yes even pro-file when they are getting on planes or going to major events etc... Why waste our time checking little old ladies, they don't blow up people.

 

[jallman]

I would be a hypocrit if I said no, because I have a muslim friend living here, but I do believe it's okay to do major back ground checks and yes even pro-file when they are getting on planes or going to major events etc... Why waste our time checking little old ladies, they don't blow up people.

I totally concur with that. Randomizing searches by your ticket number does nothing to aid the cause of stopping terrorism. When some little blue hair is getting practically strip searched along with a mexican and a brit, a whole terrorist cell could go right through the gate. Profiling is effective. It isnt polite, but its effective.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I totally concur with that. Randomizing searches by your ticket number does nothing to aid the cause of stopping terrorism. When some little blue hair is getting practically strip searched along with a mexican and a brit, a whole terrorist cell could go right through the gate. Profiling is effective. It isnt polite, but its effective.

This whole problem is just a continuation of the political correctness doctrine that has contaminated American society for the past 10-15 years or so. The latest outrage is that we probably knew of the 9/11 hijackers a year before then but couldn't share it with the FBI because Atta and his gangsters had their "green cards." If this is true it means that 3,000 Americans died needless, horrible deaths. And yet, we still let these people into the country although it is a certain fact that 99.99999997% of all terrorism in the world is committed by known Muslims. Go figure.

http://www.rednova.com/news/general/203717/911_commission_wants_atta_claims_pursued/index.html

 

[rudy0908]

I would be a hypocrit if I said no, because I have a muslim friend living here, but I do believe it's okay to do major back ground checks and yes even pro-file when they are getting on planes or going to major events etc... Why waste our time checking little old ladies, they don't blow up people.

I agree. Profiling is sometimes necessary and appropriate, as it would be here.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

So what IF it were true, would you in any way change your views? That's actually a rhetorical question. You wouldn't, of course.

If it were true? I don't believe that it is. Making a claim about 80% of these people? I don't believe that for a second. There won't be anyway to know that that's true. If it were would I change my views into "Bomb them and shoot people?" Hell no, I wouldn't. Maybe I am being obtuse about this, but I'm not going to advocate violence against this threat because I don't see how it could possibly be effective.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Whats the point of debating with you when you allready admit that you know that you are wrong? You have never been to a mosque so you dont know how much Iman's spend their time telling the Ummnah not to fall victims to religion hijackers...so it is unfair of you to say otherwise because you simply dont know....What do you mean LOUDLY condemn these actions? In case you havent noticed Muslims are being killed by terrorists way more than Westerners are......what does that tell you? You think this makes Muslims happy? Safe? Secure?......All people are victims or terrorism......Religion,Race or nothing else matters to them

When did I admit I was wrong?

Yes you are right they are being killed more, yet they don't rise against the people killing there wives husbands and children.

All people are victims of terrorism. But only some are doing something about it. SOME however are sitting doing nothing. Sorry but I don't consider being a stationary target putting a lot of effort into making it stop. People are aiding the terorist. giving them places to stay, eat, train, rest. The people know something, yet it just doesn't seem like there in a hurry to tell anybody.

 

[Surenderer]

When did I admit I was wrong?

When you said:

I have no way of telling the difference between the average everyday peace loving muslim and the hatefilled bomber with C4 on his chest. Is it fair thay people paint with such broad strokes... Nope. Is it fair to condemn an enitre group for the actions of a few... nope

Since Blacks are 2 times more likely to go to jail than hispanics and 5 times more likely to go to jail than Whites I wonder if you profile Blacks also? If not then you are a hypocrite if so then a racist.......

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Don't pretend you know anything about Gandhi. You don't even know how to spell his name.

I know he was bald, indian, fought the british with non violent protest. Or maybe I don't know. I know he's dead

If you are a christian and you live in a Muslim state and you are murdered. The killer will face prosecution.

That has nothing to do with the statement you made earlier. And the truth is murder in all muslim states is not against the law. I am almost positive there are scenarios that it is legal and still does happen to this day.

That's not true.

Then what is?

To me it's not big deal... you sound absolutely terrified.

Why on Earth I would even go with 1,000,000 I'll never know. 1 million? After consideration, let's rethink this number. Do you really think the answer is 1,000,000?

I am working off the number you gave me as an example. And you see nothing big about 1,000,000 terrorist willing to kill and die for there cause. I however see that as a problem to global security. But by looking over the global landscape I notice I am right and you are wrong. Because terrorist have been wreaking havoc for years

I don't know if it's a million. half that is still a scary number when you see what there capapble of

You don't have to. .083% is an illegitimate fear. Kind of like opening your oven 100 times a day because you keep thinking you closed your cat in there.

Not really seeing the comparison. My cat does not have C4 straped to his chest or trying to fly a plane into a building

You can't blame the religion! Precisely! Blame terrorists. That's it.

The terrorist are following the writing of the religion. But in the end your right, the words are just that words. The terrorist are following the writings of this religion

A woman in Terrell, Texas cut her babies arms off because "Jesus told her to." I didn't see any christians on the ten o' clock news thinking that they have to explain themselves for that.

Keep comparing single instances to the killings of hundreds and thousands by hundreds of thousands.
Because we as a society already no she's a fruit cake. And we as a society have measures in place to deal with it. The flip side say that the terrorist have pretty free run and there society is lax in doing a whole hell of a lot

The ratio is the concern if you're talking about restricting immigration to people of that larger group.

Terror is the concern

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

If it were true? I don't believe that it is. Making a claim about 80% of these people? I don't believe that for a second. There won't be anyway to know that that's true. If it were would I change my views into "Bomb them and shoot people?" Hell no, I wouldn't. Maybe I am being obtuse about this, but I'm not going to advocate violence against this threat because I don't see how it could possibly be effective.

How do you think wars are won? When has appeasement ever worked in the history of man?

Did we play kissy face with the Nazis and Japan? No, we brought them to their knees and then kicked them in the groin for good measure. We beat them over their stupid heads with the butt end of our rifles and then we went and hung a number of them to make our point. That's what brings peace. Violence. Sheer violence.

Wars are the purpose of killing people and breaking things. Remember that war is really just and extension of the political systems we live in. It is politics by violent means that settle disputes.

If we ever intend to win the war against these terrorists we have to hunt them down and kill them by whatever means are at our disposal. No prisoners. No appeasement. Nothing but absolute and complete victory.

 

[mikeey]

Why not let them the Muslims in, U guys got in and u are not any better than them.

In the end u are all emigrants, like German american and so on.

so behave yourselves.

not the dugeon again.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Why not let them the Muslims in, U guys got in and u are not any better than them.

In the end u are all emigrants, like German american and so on.

so behave yourselves.

not the dugeon again.

At such time as the Germans start blowing up things and people I will be back with a new resolution that we keep them out as well. I want to keep out the terrorists. Ergo: If 99.99999997% of all terrorism is committed by Muslims I want to keep them out of the U.S. This really isn't rocket science; it's social science.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

How do you think wars are won?

Wars are won by killing people, but that's not how problems are solved. You're talking about war, I'm talking about problems.

When has appeasement ever worked in the history of man?

Never. That's why I'm not suggesting it.

Did we play kissy face with the Nazis and Japan? No, we brought them to their knees and then kicked them in the groin for good measure. We beat them over their stupid heads with the butt end of our rifles and then we went and hung a number of them to make our point. That's what brings peace. Violence. Sheer violence.

Is that really what ended Nazism? Think about it. Did we fire bomb the hatred out of Dresden? Think. I believe in you.

Wars are the purpose of killing people and breaking things. Remember that war is really just and extension of the political systems we live in. It is politics by violent means that settle disputes.

Wars are the purpose of killing people? I completely agree. This is not the purpose of politics.

If we ever intend to win the war against these terrorists we have to hunt them down and kill them by whatever means are at our disposal. No prisoners. No appeasement. Nothing but absolute and complete victory.

I thought you said you couldn't tell the difference between a Muslim and a terrorist... What are you suggesting?

If 99.99999997% of all terrorism is committed by Muslims I want to keep them out of the U.S. This really isn't rocket science; it's social science.

Terrorists to Muslims, your statistic is correct. Muslims to terrorsts, it is quite the opposite.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

When you said:




Since Blacks are 2 times more likely to go to jail than hispanics and 5 times more likely to go to jail than Whites I wonder if you profile Blacks also? If not then you are a hypocrite if so then a racist.......

I wasn't wrong I was admiting that people tend to deal in very broad strokes. There is a difference between generalizing and error

Profiling in my opinion makes good sense. It's not a 100% so those ACLU pissheads jump on the band wagon and well we know were that goes. So what am I if I advocate the profiling of whites also? You just accused me of being either a hypocrite or a racist so is there a third option? Course I have no problem if you see me either of those ways.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

Is that really what ended Nazism? Think about it. Did we fire bomb the hatred out of Dresden? Think. I believe in you.

No ...... we fire bombed there ability to generate, sustain and defend hate and push it through the world. Mortars, bullets, bombs, bayonets, grenades and most importantly SOLDIERS did this. Not talking or appeasing, not hand holding. What got them beaten back and down was tremendous as swhopping that they could not bounce back from.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

No ...... we fire bombed there ability to generate, sustain and defend hate and push it through the world. Mortars, bullets, bombs, bayonets, grenades and most importantly SOLDIERS did this. Not talking or appeasing, not hand holding. What got them beaten back and down was tremendous as swhopping that they could not bounce back from.

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/reviewas5.htm

Based on social studies in 1987, 1989, 1991, and 1992, Werner Bergmann and Rainer Erb found that at 15% of the population was "clearly anti-semetic."

That's quite a bit wouldn't you say? Fifteen percent is no majority, but it certainly isn't nonexistant. The fact is Anti-semitism still exists in Germany in large numbers. War didn't end it. Nothing has ended it. Only through living together and learning together has this problem been diminshed, but to say that we "fire bombed [their] ability to generate, sustain and defend hate" isn't accurate.

We're talking about changing the people's minds. We're talking about unmaking the hatred in these men, and history PROVES that war does not unmake hatred. Look at America after the civil war. That war didn't stop racism. It took a great man to stand up hudred years later and change the minds of America. He did not appease them in the least.

The chain reaction of evil -- hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars -- must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation. -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/reviewas5.htm

Based on social studies in 1987, 1989, 1991, and 1992, Werner Bergmann and Rainer Erb found that at 15% of the population was "clearly anti-semetic."

That's quite a bit wouldn't you say? Fifteen percent is no majority, but it certainly isn't nonexistant. The fact is Anti-semitism still exists in Germany in large numbers. War didn't end it. Nothing has ended it. Only through living together and learning together has this problem been diminshed, but to say that we "fire bombed [their] ability to generate, sustain and defend hate" isn't accurate.

We're talking about changing the people's minds. We're talking about unmaking the hatred in these men, and history PROVES that war does not unmake hatred. Look at America after the civil war. That war didn't stop racism. It took a great man to stand up hudred years later and change the minds of America. He did not appease them in the least.

The chain reaction of evil -- hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars -- must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation. -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

I never said they didn't stil hate. We TOOK there ability to spread it throught Europe and the globe. If they hate Jews they hate jews, you can talk to them until your blue in the face and they will still hate Jews. I bet most jews don't give a rat fart if they hate jews. They have better more important things to worry about

 

[Surenderer]

I wasn't wrong I was admiting that people tend to deal in very broad strokes. There is a difference between generalizing and error

Profiling in my opinion makes good sense. It's not a 100% so those ACLU pissheads jump on the band wagon and well we know were that goes. So what am I if I advocate the profiling of whites also? You just accused me of being either a hypocrite or a racist so is there a third option? Course I have no problem if you see me either of those ways.

Well since no two people are the same then you are worng....generalizations are an error.....answer my question....giving the information I gave you does it make since to generalize Blacks also? how about the fact that 84% of all Serial killers are White Males?


peace

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

I never said they didn't stil hate. We TOOK there ability to spread it throught Europe and the globe.

Okay. That didn't stop violence or hatred against Jews.

If they hate Jews they hate jews, you can talk to them until your blue in the face and they will still hate Jews.

If that's true then perhaps you are not talking right, and if you are then stop talking. Start acting. I don't mean picking up a rifle.

I bet most jews don't give a rat fart if they hate jews. They have better more important things to worry about

It's different in the case of terrorism. The most important things we have to worry about is the fact that they do hate us. They hate us so much that they want us dead, and you can either help that grow or you can change it.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Well since no two people are the same then you are worng....generalizations are an error.....answer my question....giving the information I gave you does it make since to generalize Blacks also? how about the fact that 84% of all Serial killers are White Males?


peace

I am not sure of your point. I would profile everybody if it gives me an inside abillity to deter or ebb crime or criminals. But yes I have no problem with profiling blacks ................. or hispanics............. or whites.

Not sure of your point about the serial killers is either. Do we let them go because there white? Serial killing would seem to be more of a psychological thing to me. But they do employ profilers on cases such as that. So what exactly is your point. If you killed puppies when you were a kid, and you have a violent rap sheet. Then guess what I am going to look at you if something occurs.

 

[Surenderer]

My point is simply that the overwhelming majority of Serial killers are white so should all whites (since we cant tell the good ones from bad ones) be treated with the suspicion of being a Serial Killer.....but you answered my question in your previous thread......you said you have no problem with Generalizations or Sterotypes.......We can agree to disagree on that....thnx for the reply



peace

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

Okay. That didn't stop violence or hatred against Jews.

It stopped there ability to perform a genocidal destruction of them though. It was never meant to stop the mental desire to hate, but the physical desire to kill because of that hate. And no it was not meant to stop the occasional hate crime, thats what police are for. It was to stop the innihilation of a people because of that hate. And to do that we innihilated them back. And the last one standing won.



If that's true then perhaps you are not talking right, and if you are then stop talking. Start acting. I don't mean picking up a rifle.

I don't understand. Start acting how? Let them hate, I am not here to dictate to a person what they can like and not like. As long as they don't gatheran army or large large group and try to kill people let them go about there hating days


It's different in the case of terrorism. The most important things we have to worry about is the fact that they do hate us. They hate us so much that they want us dead, and you can either help that grow or you can change it.

Other then killing them please tell me how you change that. Because destroying there ability and will to perform these acts seems to be the only solution. Well short of appeasing them and giving them everything they want. In which case your screwed, specialy went the just keep wanting more

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

Other then killing them please tell me how you change that. Because destroying there ability and will to perform these acts seems to be the only solution. Well short of appeasing them and giving them everything they want. In which case your screwed, specialy went the just keep wanting more

I believe the best way to defeat this problem is by not giving them anything to hate us for. The sanctions on Iraq killed around 2 million people. That's not helping. When we invaded Afghanistan there were around 8 million people that were nearly dead from starvation and when because we invaded international aid workers were forced out and we may never know the official number of how many starved because of that. Many of them fled to Pakistan were their hardships will be turned into hatred for America, hatred that may not even be misplaced. That's not helping.

What we need to do is build rapport with these people. Make them love us and the only way to do that is by loving them. If they are starving, feed them. If they are homeless, give them shelter. The best thing to do would be to get Peace Corps into Muslim countries. That would be a great first step.

Foriegn policy is a major problem. These people are wronged by many of our actions. When there is a conflict in with these people we must work to seek a peaceful and fair resolution to such conflict rather than just taking sides.

It is not an easy thing to change someone's mind especially when you are changing hate, but dropping bombs, and invading countries... It only gives substance to the hateful propaganda that has become so common in these places. I'm sure a collaborative effort of more people willing to find such solutions would produce great things and we would have a permanent change in this region of the world.

 

[rudy0908]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

What we need to do is build rapport with these people. Make them love us and the only way to do that is by loving them. If they are starving, feed them. If they are homeless, give them shelter. The best thing to do would be to get Peace Corps into Muslim countries. That would be a great first step.

I seriously doubt that many Muslim nations would welcome US assistance. US assistance means people look favorably on the US. The US equals democracy. Democracy equals reform/revolution. Few leaders would allow this. They'd rather saty in power and use the people'spoor conditions to ferment American dislike.

Foriegn policy is a major problem. These people are wronged by many of our actions. When there is a conflict in with these people we must work to seek a peaceful and fair resolution to such conflict rather than just taking sides.

Absolutely.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

I seriously doubt that many Muslim nations would welcome US assistance. US assistance means people look favorably on the US. The US equals democracy. Democracy equals reform/revolution. Few leaders would allow this. They'd rather saty in power and use the people'spoor conditions to ferment American dislike.

I know what you mean. I can't think specifically of how to get the leverage it would take for a place like... Iran to let in Peace Corps.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Re: Still want these people here? Read on.

I believe the best way to defeat this problem is by not giving them anything to hate us for. The sanctions on Iraq killed around 2 million people. That's not helping. When we invaded Afghanistan there were around 8 million people that were nearly dead from starvation and when because we invaded international aid workers were forced out and we may never know the official number of how many starved because of that. Many of them fled to Pakistan were their hardships will be turned into hatred for America, hatred that may not even be misplaced. That's not helping.

What we need to do is build rapport with these people. Make them love us and the only way to do that is by loving them. If they are starving, feed them. If they are homeless, give them shelter. The best thing to do would be to get Peace Corps into Muslim countries. That would be a great first step.

Foriegn policy is a major problem. These people are wronged by many of our actions. When there is a conflict in with these people we must work to seek a peaceful and fair resolution to such conflict rather than just taking sides.

It is not an easy thing to change someone's mind especially when you are changing hate, but dropping bombs, and invading countries... It only gives substance to the hateful propaganda that has become so common in these places. I'm sure a collaborative effort of more people willing to find such solutions would produce great things and we would have a permanent change in this region of the world.

They would capture and kill peace corp workers.


It just feels like your back to appeasing them again. I will do this so you don't bomb me. I will feed you so you don't bomb me, I will shelter you so you don't bomb me. The ME was a mess Long before our foriegn policy got tossed in there. It's been a festering sore for a long time. There has been starvation and conflict there for decades