Should Jack Kevorkian be paroled ?

[taxedout]

The great thing about our nation, you don't have to agree with the law, you just need to obey it, or face the penatly. Work to change it if you feel it necessary, or break it and go to jail. Choice is yours.

Secondly, go kill yourself, or get your family or friends to help you.
Do you reallly need a doctor to help you suck on a pipe full of carbon monoxide ?
It ain't rocket science. It ain't even high school algebra.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Remember one thing ye of little compassion, where there is life there is hope.........

He's not being uncompasionate. His compassion is for the terminally ill victim, while yours is for the family. Would you still fight to keep a family member alive if they were begging you to let them die?

Edit: Nevermind, I guess you already answered that here:

You would be surprised how many people have recovered from illness when the medical profession said there was no chance of that happening.......

 

[Navy Pride]

What if your family member doesn't want to live anymore? What if your family member has a disease that, barring a miracle, is uncurable, and it involves horrible horrible suffering, and your family member doesn't want to go through it?

As I originally said Galen its a tough call but I have personally known people who have had a terminal disease and survived so all I can say is where there is life there is hope..........

 

[Navy Pride]

He's not being uncompasionate. His compassion is for the terminally ill victim, while yours is for the family. Would you still fight to keep a family member alive if they were begging you to let them die?

Edit: Nevermind, I guess you already answered that here:

Mine is for both I have very mixed emotions on the issue..........

 

[Navy Pride]

No, I noticed that man. That wasn't meant to be a point of disagreement, but an honest question. I concede that as long as there is life, there is hope, but would you say that in certain situations that hope, which in many cases is very slim, can be outweighed by a desire just to stop suffering?

No I can't, I value human life to much

 

[Caine]

No I can't, I value human life to much

And, how does someone taking thier own life because they are suffering affect you? How can you place value on someone else's life that you have never met, never made contact with, and don't even know exists?

I cannot understand how someone could possibly value human life so much to demand that others suffer when they no longer wish to live. If you want to do it yourself, fine, but to demand that others conform to your ideology is just plain selfish.

 

[Navy Pride]

Alright, so if your wife got inoperable cancer, and the pain was so horrible that she had to be drugged up to her ears, and still was in substantial amounts of pain, and she sat you down, and told you in a calm and reasonable way that she feels she's happy with what she's done in this life, and doesn't want her last experience on Earth to be slowly dying, either in unimaginable pain or doped out of her mind, but instead would like to move on, you wouldn't give her your blessing?

Once again, just an honest question.

Galen, its a tough call but I gave you my answer already......

 

[Navy Pride]

And, how does someone taking thier own life because they are suffering affect you? How can you place value on someone else's life that you have never met, never made contact with, and don't even know exists?

I cannot understand how someone could possibly value human life so much to demand that others suffer when they no longer wish to live. If you want to do it yourself, fine, but to demand that others conform to your ideology is just plain selfish.

Knowing your beliefs my friend It does not surprise me that you don't understand how I feel and that I believe all life is precious..........Someday when you have matured and become older and wiser you may understand.....

 

[DeeJayH]

Yeah, having laws preventing terminal patients from killing themselves is immoral. If my death was agonizingly incipient, I sure as hell wouldn’t give a damn what anybody else’s god said about suicide. What right does the state have to legally coerce these people to endure horrendous pain until their bodies crap out? It isn’t like they’ll ever be productive citizens again, and prolonging their lives against their will only devours resources best devoted to those who still have a chance for recuperation. Sometimes it’s more honorable to take a long walk out onto the ice than it is to dwindle away and burden your family and the community with supporting you until you collapse. The very least Kevorkian deserves is being paroled, while the asshats responsible for having him thrown in jail to begin with deserve to be denied his services.

and where do we draw the line
i was given a 10% chance of seeing Y2K
and yet here i am
i chose to fight, and i won
how many more would still be alive if they chose to suck it up, fight and possibly survive
take god & religion out of it, with out which, this life is all we have
how can one be so cowardly as to roll over and quit when this is all there is. are so many people so eager to become worm food?
make the most of this single ride on the merry-go-round we call life

not to mention the fact that a large portion of the suicidal have to be those who are mentally unstable, even if only temporarily from excruciationg pain

that being said, I really couldnt care how many people off themselves, except for those scumbag muslim homicide bombers

 

[DeeJayH]

just realized i failed to answer the OP question

he broke the law, he can face the consequences. or he can off himself, if he is so old and so sick

 

[Caine]

that being said, I really couldnt care how many people off themselves, except for those scumbag muslim homicide bombers

This is the type of attitude more people should have about alot of "political" moral issues.

 

[jamesrage]

And if you get a horribly painful degenerative disease and become a huge drain on your family, You should deserve to rot in the prison of your own body until you finally die a slow agonizing death?????

Think about it.......

Medical science advances everyday.Why throw your life away if a cure or a way of easing the pain is right around the corner?

 

[Caine]

Medical science advances everyday.Why throw your life away if a cure or a way of easing the pain is right around the corner?

Oh, I completely understand that one.. I was hoping for something to help my old grandpappy get healthy again.. (he died once, but the Marine in him wouldn't let him die so they managed to bring him back, he lived 2 more years before he met final peace).

I just think issues like this should be left up to the individual to decide for themselves. The government already has its nose in regulating everything else we should be able to decide for ourselves.

 

[doughgirl]

“Provided that he did not coerce or force someone to commit suicide, then he should have never gone to prison to begin with. Laws against suicide should be taken off the books.”

Kevokian aided in the suicides. He did not follow the laws of the land, he broke them.

Funny, people tell me to sit back and just accept that abortion is legal that I shouldn’t try to change the law. Some here say that the law should be changed with regard to suicide. Why? I’ll say the same thing to you…….its illegal just accept it.

“I'm fairly certain that he just let them know the option was there, and discouraged it. He merely stood for letting people make their own choice in the matter.”

What option? Hey anyone can commit suicide. Why didn’t these people do it themselves? He is not in jail because he counseled people about suicide………..he assisted. Big difference. When he got out of prison he promised he would never do it again.......he did.

I’m curious………..if you say a person has the right to kill themselves……then does that go for anyone at any age? They let young girls get abortions without parental permission…….why not suicide?

How about someone who is 21 years old who might be depressed and wants to end it all. If you say it is everyones choice………..then throw open that door. Deegan I noticed you said you supported assisted suicide for adults. I think that age in the United States is 21.........WOW, thats young.

Caine said, “These "some people" should keep their nose out of other people's problems.

It is between the Doctor and his patient. These other people do not have anything at stake here.”

Have you read about assisted suicide laws around the world and Oregons in particular?

“In the Netherlands legalized euthanasia has expanded to infants, the depressed and the chronically ill. Children as young as 12 with parental consent and those as young as 16 with parental NOTIFICATION (no need for consent) can access euthanasia. The percentage of euthanasia is increasing rapidly…. 80% of euthanasia deaths are NOT requested by the patient.“

Herbert Hendrin MD, Chris Rutenfrans PHD and Zbigniew Zylics MD, “Physican-Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia in the Netherlands”, JAMA, June 4, 1997 vol 277, No 21, p.1720

Hmmmmm wonder who is requesting them?

“Virtually every guideline set up by the Dutch has failed to protect patients or has been modified or violated.”

Suzanne Daley, “The dutch Seek to Legalize Long-Tolerated Euthanasia” New York Times, June 20, 2000, P.A10.

How would this affect the power and pressures that are placed on physicians if this is legalized? They are healers right? NO? What might happen to vulnerable groups including the poor, elderly, disabled people……….from abuse, neglect and mistakes. Think mistakes could happen? Ask Kevorkian, he made several.

No matter how you think assisted suicide would work, no matter how carefully any guidelines were put into place, this legalized suicide will do exactly what the abortion law did. At first abortion was only meant to be for those who were raped, those whose life was at stake. Now its abortion on demand.

Health care is expensive… lets just terminate the vulnerable groups because of high costs.

Take a look at Oregon and the first five years that this has been legal.

“The Oregon Health Division issues a yearly summary of assisted suicide using information derived by prescribing doctors. No supporting documentation or independent evaluation is provided to determine the assisted suicide was performed in accordance with the law. All information is forbidden to inspection.
The Health Division acknowledged that it had no way to “detect doctors who fail to report assisted deaths or commit other violations of the law.”

Erin Hoover Barnett and Joe Rojas-Burke “15 Oreganians Chose Assisted Suicide in 1998 Report Says,” The Oreganian, February 18, 1998

“By Oregons fifth year, only 13% of suicide victims receives psychiatric counseling.”

“Social isolation and concerns over bodily functions were the top two reasons suicide victims gave for wanting to die.”

Fifth Annual Report on Oregons Death with Dignity Act, Oregon Department of Human Services; Office of Disease Prevention and Epidemiology. March 6, 2003.

We really shouldnt even be discussing this at all. The Supreme Court has already ruled on it.

In the 1997 SC case, Washington v. Glucksberg, physician-assisted suicide was rejected as a constitutional right because “the right to autonomy clashes with the right to life in our constitutional system….Death is the extinquishment of rights, not the triumph of one right over another.” (Washington v Glucksberg, p.22)

“The U.S. Supreme Court upheld BOTH the New York and Washington statues prohibiting assisted suicide in ALL cases by a 9-0 vote.” (The New York Task Force Summary)

So it seems .....physician-assisted suicide IS NOT A RIGHT PROTECTED BY OUR CONSTITUTION.

So accepted it, its law guys………



If legalized this law would do exactly what the abortion law did……

Abortion on demand………..suicide on demand.

 

[Caine]

How about someone who is 21 years old who might be depressed and wants to end it all. If you say it is everyones choice………..then throw open that door. Deegan I noticed you said you supported assisted suicide for adults. I think that age in the United States is 21.........WOW, thats young.

Actually, that age is 18. And I say if your old enough to die for your country, then you should be old enough to do anything else an adult can do.

Have you read about assisted suicide laws around the world and Oregons in particular?

No. And reguardless, I stand by my position, under the terms I stated.

Hmmmmm wonder who is requesting them?

I dunno. But they obviously aren't medically handicapped to the extent that I think one should be before something like this is acceptable. So this means nothing to me.

How would this affect the power and pressures that are placed on physicians if this is legalized? They are healers right? NO? What might happen to vulnerable groups including the poor, elderly, disabled people……….from abuse, neglect and mistakes. Think mistakes could happen? Ask Kevorkian, he made several.

How many mistakes are made in EVERYTHING we do? We can't be afraid of doing something because mistakes will be made. That is wayy too passive. Again, I stand by my position.

 

[Dogger807]

Remember one thing ye of little compassion, where there is life there is hope.........

I really wish this were true. People always want to say "I proved my doctor wrong..I survived." The sad fact is more often than not the doctors are right. As much as the doctor himself wishes he's wrong they have an almost perfect track record for this type of thing.

Yet people say ..look how many times doctors are wrong. A completely useless statement unless you also look how often they are right. after all being wrong 100 times sounds awful bad till you realize they are right 10,000 times.

Some people want to fight the odds... all the more power too them. And some people are tired of fighting... they made their choice, I say respect that.

 

[doughgirl]

So sorry you dont want to listen to facts about the laws that are on the books Caine........

FACT...........the Supreme Court voted.........assisted suicide is wrong, its illegal.

Live with it.

 

[Befuddled_Stoner]

and where do we draw the line
i was given a 10% chance of seeing Y2K
and yet here i am
i chose to fight, and i won
how many more would still be alive if they chose to suck it up, fight and possibly survive
take god & religion out of it, with out which, this life is all we have
how can one be so cowardly as to roll over and quit when this is all there is. are so many people so eager to become worm food?
make the most of this single ride on the merry-go-round we call life

not to mention the fact that a large portion of the suicidal have to be those who are mentally unstable, even if only temporarily from excruciationg pain

that being said, I really couldnt care how many people off themselves, except for those scumbag muslim homicide bombers

You chose to fight, Dj, so you beat the odds and are still around to talk about it. How many more terminal patients would still be alive if they chose to suck it up and fight as long as possible? Probably nowhere near all of them, but I’m sure that at least a couple more would have lived.

But all that is aside from my point. The people with the strength to keep on fighting beyond all hope are NOT the people asking their doctors to kill them. It’s the people who DON’T have that type of indomitable will that are asking for death. I haven’t seen any numbers on this, but I’d suspect that it is very rare for people who have lost the will to live to survive. Euthanasia should be kept on the table as an option for those who look forward to death as a release from their pain.

 

[hipsterdufus]

Kevokian aided in the suicides. He did not follow the laws of the land, he broke them.

Funny, people tell me to sit back and just accept that abortion is legal that I shouldn’t try to change the law. Some here say that the law should be changed with regard to suicide. Why? I’ll say the same thing to you…….its illegal just accept it.


Abortion on demand………..suicide on demand.

Doughgirl,

In one breath your saying the Supreme Court is wrong on abortion and in the other that the Supreme Court ruled against assisted suicide and that we should abide by the laws.

See the rub there?

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone that wouldn't want some limits on abortion. The same would be the case for end of life issues. There should be Doctors certified to handle end of life issues.

Having seen loved ones linger in total agony, where death would be a welcome relief, I find it odd that our society treats beloved pets better than family members.

 

[DeeJayH]

You chose to fight, Dj, so you beat the odds and are still around to talk about it. How many more terminal patients would still be alive if they chose to suck it up and fight as long as possible? Probably nowhere near all of them, but I’m sure that at least a couple more would have lived.

But all that is aside from my point. The people with the strength to keep on fighting beyond all hope are NOT the people asking their doctors to kill them. It’s the people who DON’T have that type of indomitable will that are asking for death. I haven’t seen any numbers on this, but I’d suspect that it is very rare for people who have lost the will to live to survive. Euthanasia should be kept on the table as an option for those who look forward to death as a release from their pain.

without the will to live, i would say there is all but no chance at survival
but instead of a kevorkian cocktail, how about getting a motivational speaker in to change the quitters mindset. get their religious leader, or a psychologist/psychiatrist or whoever it takes to change their will to live, or lack thereof.
I was raised, and I have raised my son, with the belief that it does not matter how many times you fail, just so long as you never give up
I would also think that there is more to learn about beating a disease from somebody who has survived it
than what can be learned from someone who died of it, when they did not have to

 

[::Major_Baker::]

So sorry you dont want to listen to facts about the laws that are on the books Caine........

FACT...........the Supreme Court voted.........assisted suicide is wrong, its illegal.

Live with it.

abortion is legal. live with it.


see how apathetic it sounds? fight for what you think is right, DG.
The supreme court is nothing more than 9 educated people--they may not always be correct.

 

[faithful_servant]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060713/OPINION01/607130308
This gentleman has committed the heinous crime of challenging the system, of standing to an unfair law, a law that must be changed..
Ours is a strange country, where "choice " is so important, yet, when it comes to a man's own life, that choice is removed, very odd....
So, our so-called Dr Death is up for parole - and this is being denied. Is this right ??

You don't stand up to a law you feel is unjust by breaking it. All that gets you is what Kevorkian got - jail time. His crime was, I believe, homicide. Just because you don't like a law, does not give you the right to break it. Had Kevorkian worked within the system and moved to Oregon, he would still be a free man today. But because he chose to break the law rather than work to change it, he's in jail where he belongs.

 

[faithful_servant]

Yeah, having laws preventing terminal patients from killing themselves is immoral. If my death was agonizingly incipient, I sure as hell wouldn’t give a damn what anybody else’s god said about suicide. What right does the state have to legally coerce these people to endure horrendous pain until their bodies crap out? It isn’t like they’ll ever be productive citizens again, and prolonging their lives against their will only devours resources best devoted to those who still have a chance for recuperation. Sometimes it’s more honorable to take a long walk out onto the ice than it is to dwindle away and burden your family and the community with supporting you until you collapse. The very least Kevorkian deserves is being paroled, while the asshats responsible for having him thrown in jail to begin with deserve to be denied his services.

The Netherlands was one of the first countries to legalize euthanasia. Today, old people there who are a financial burden to their children are being pressured to have themselves killed. There is a downside to the issue of allowing unrestricted euthanasia. My personal opinion of the issue is that I want every last minute of life available to me. I don't want my life cut short because of an illness, no matter how painful it is. I will fight to the very end for each and every breath I can get. Some people don't have this drive in them, some do. Me, I just don't understand why people would just quit and give up. Read Victor Frankl's book "On Man's Search for Meaning". He talks about life in a German concentration camp and the difference between those who survived and those who didn't. Those who survived did so because they had a reason to live, something to look forward to, those who died lost thier vision and gave up. Euthanasia is giving up hope and EVERY doctor you will ever talk will tell you that one the most important things a desperately ill person can do is to always believe that they will get better. Euthanasia gives people an easy out and allows them to simply quit fighting for thier life. For some people, this seems acceptable, for me, it seems very sad.

 

[faithful_servant]

I can only speak for what I would do if I had a family member in that condition.......I would spend every dime I have, bare any burden to help them in their time of need..............You would be surprised how many people have recovered from illness when the medical profession said there was no chance of that happening.......

Remember one thing ye of little compassion, where there is life there is hope.........

There you go, Navy. I have a very good friend who is the 2nd oldest living person with cystic fibrosis. The doctors have given up on him on at least three occassions that I know of and he's in better shape today than a lot of other people his age. I live in Oregon, where euthanasia is legal and this option was available to him, but he chose to fight instead and today is alive and well.

 

[faithful_servant]

Alright, so if your wife got inoperable cancer, and the pain was so horrible that she had to be drugged up to her ears, and still was in substantial amounts of pain, and she sat you down, and told you in a calm and reasonable way that she feels she's happy with what she's done in this life, and doesn't want her last experience on Earth to be slowly dying, either in unimaginable pain or doped out of her mind, but instead would like to move on, you wouldn't give her your blessing?

Once again, just an honest question.

My wife's like I am and she'd fight to the end, no matter what.
Euthanasia's biggest problem is that it gives people an easy way to give up when they should be fighting for life.