Should immigrants have a path to citizenship?

[Captain Adverse]

Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.

Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?

I don't agree with your opening statement.

What Trump's ICE units are doing is concentrating on identifying illegal migrants who have committed crimes, locating them, and then raiding where they are (workplace, housing, clubs, hangouts, etc.) to arrest them. However, ICE agents don't ignore OTHER migrants in these raids. They take anyone who is in the USA "illegally" along with the "wanted criminals" and processes them ALL for deportation.

That answers your second question. They are not being allowed to stay, and IMO they should NOT be allowed to stay. The U.S. already has several programs which allow foreign workers who are not seeking to immigrate, but only to temporarily work in the USA and send the money back home. Then they go back when not needed, and return with that form of permission to return to those jobs.

 

[Taylor]

We already have a path to citizenship.

Apply for Citizenship

As a lawful permanent resident, you may be eligible to become a U.S. citizen through naturalization. Check your eligibility for naturalization.

www.uscis.gov

 

[gbg3]

Yes to all legal immigrants, no to illegal ones.

I assume this is the answer to the question of "a path to citizenship".

I agree, only for legal immigrants. I don't know if I agree about yes to "all legal immigrants" because I think a path to citizenship needs to be a careful and well-considered, case by case scenario.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Of course they should. If they are in good behavior, they should become citizens after 5 years of residency.

 

[Fearandloathing]

If you think lefties all thought decriminalizing fentanyl is the truth, I don't know what to tell YOU.
If you'd like to know this particular liberal's opinion, frankly, this is the first I heard that Portland tried to decrim fentanyl and I think it's ridiculous.
What were they thinking?
Obviously it is not decriminalized anymore, at least I hope not.

The issue is larger than that.


They, meaning Poland, attempted to follow a protocol (it had a name I forgot) that was concocted in Canada within the idea of "controlled addiction". If ever there was a stupid idea............

In Poland and to a degree Canada had antiquated laws on hard drugs, and fentanyl was one that could get you a decade for trafficking in Canada back when we actually jailed people. There was one rumor that capital punishment could be used on traffickers.

So, as a result of some Euro-American get together of experts it was decided to decriminalize a suite of drugs, a measure Canada led in the mistaken belief that one could be 'moderated' in an addiction.

As far as I know fentanyl is part of a collection of drugs that are illegal across most every country.

BTW, what they don't tell you is that it is really easy to make, I am told.

 

[Gaius46]

If they illegally cross the border. They are in fact criminals

As I pointed out to another poster intent matters. Crossing the border illegally to escape persecution or to find work to feed your family is a very different thing from crossing the border to smuggle narcotics. To say "well they crossed the border illegally so they are security threats" is complete nonsense. And since we're being all nitpicks about things absent a conviction they aren't criminals.

And you do realize that illegally crossing the border - the first time - is not a felony right?

 

[ttwtt78640]

As I pointed out to another poster intent matters. Crossing the border illegally to escape persecution or to find work to feed your family is a very different thing from crossing the border to smuggle narcotics. To say "well they crossed the border illegally so they are security threats" is complete nonsense.

US immigration law contains no such (bolded above) exception.

And you do realize that illegally crossing the border - the first time - is not a felony right?

Since many crimes aren’t felonies, should they be ignored by LEOs?

 

[Lord of Planar]

As I pointed out to another poster intent matters. Crossing the border illegally to escape persecution or to find work to feed your family is a very different thing from crossing the border to smuggle narcotics.

Yes, and we sympasize. However, we cannot help the number of people in the world that need help. We have legal immigration paths. Quotas are in place for a reason. Bypassing what other people must do creates two standards.

To say "well they crossed the border illegally so they are security threats" is complete nonsense. And since we're being all nitpicks about things absent a conviction they aren't criminals.

How about since you have such feelings, you sponsor a family. Take them in and provide for them until they can provide for themself.

And you do realize that illegally crossing the border - the first time - is not a felony right?

Does not matter.

 

[quip]

I ran a stop light today- it wasn't in my best interest to wait and do it legally
I bought a gun last week and lied on the background checks- it wasn't in my best interest to wait and do it legally
I need money so I stole from my company- it wasn't in my best interest do it legally
I wanted something - so I got it illegally - it wasn't in my best interest to wait and do it legally


a non-US citizen wants in to the USA - they do it illegally because its in their best interest. That's what Democrats support so they should support other things too. After all, I didn't want to wait, I wanted it, the laws/rule I didn't care for so it was justified

right ?

Not necessarily.

Typical of the right, you've only (conveniently) sorted half the equation. With a little compassion you could've easily understood that perhaps illegal aliens are fleeing a desperate situation you may never experience and with a little grace and understanding allow them belated passage to legal citizenship, the very one you take as a given.

 

[stealthycat]

IF that were true, undocumented immigrants would be breaking the law left and right. They're not.

there are news reports every day of illegally here people breaking laws - and the point is there should be ZERO people illegally here committing crimes. They shouldn't be here illegally

there are 1.5 to 2 million in California alone that don't have a drivers license and drives without insurance - did you know ? how many nationwide ?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Not necessarily.

Typical of the right, you've only (conveniently) sorted half the equation. With a little compassion you could've easily understood that perhaps illegal aliens are fleeing a desperate situation you may never experience and with a little grace and understanding allow them belated passage to legal citizenship, the very one you take as a given.

How many of the billions of foreign nationals would you allow to self-declare their situations to be desperate, thus having a right to enter and/or remain inside the US and become citizens?

 

[quip]

How many of the billions of foreign nationals would you allow to self-declare their situations to be desperate, thus having a right to enter and/or remain inside the US and become citizens?

I could care less about such strict gatekeeping.... it's an impossible task anyway.

 

[stealthycat]

Not necessarily.

Typical of the right, you've only (conveniently) sorted half the equation. With a little compassion you could've easily understood that perhaps illegal aliens are fleeing a desperate situation you may never experience and with a little grace and understanding allow them belated passage to legal citizenship, the very one you take as a given.

we are #1 in the world in allowing legal immigration - that's exceptionally generous isn't it? we have a system that pays for housing and give food and money/support ...... we give work visa's, student visa's .... refugees get to come here

there are 7 billion people on the planet https://www.worldbank.org/en/publication/poverty-prosperity-and-planet

Today, almost 700 million people (8.5 percent of the global population) live in extreme poverty - on less than $2.15 per day. Progress has stalled amid low growth, setbacks due to COVID-19, and increased fragility. Poverty rates in low-income countries are higher than before the pandemic. Around 3.5 billion people (44 percent of the global population) remain poor by a standard that is more relevant for upper middle-income countries ($6.85 per day), and the number of people living on less than this standard has barely changed since the 1990s due to population growth.


With a little compassion we would take a billion of those people right? its not about compassion - its about what we can handle as a country and what's done legally and right


you and I don't get to decide every day in the USA which laws we can break because it best suits us to break them do we? and if we are caught we're certainly not rewarded for breaking those laws are we?

 

[stealthycat]

I could care less about such strict gatekeeping.... it's an impossible task anyway.

do you deny the massive difference between Biden's border and Trump's border ? as far as people entering illegally ?

 

[trumptman]

Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.

Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?

You break the law you have to leave and get back in line.

Someone here illegal has a path to citizenship. It's called go back to your native country and get in line.

You know, like all the people who did it... LEGALLY.

 

[quip]

we are #1 in the world in allowing legal immigration - that's exceptionally generous isn't it? we have a system that pays for housing and give food and money/support ...... we give work visa's, student visa's .... refugees get to come here

there are 7 billion people on the planet https://www.worldbank.org/en/publication/poverty-prosperity-and-planet

Today, almost 700 million people (8.5 percent of the global population) live in extreme poverty - on less than $2.15 per day. Progress has stalled amid low growth, setbacks due to COVID-19, and increased fragility. Poverty rates in low-income countries are higher than before the pandemic. Around 3.5 billion people (44 percent of the global population) remain poor by a standard that is more relevant for upper middle-income countries ($6.85 per day), and the number of people living on less than this standard has barely changed since the 1990s due to population growth.


With a little compassion we would take a billion of those people right? its not about compassion - its about what we can handle as a country and what's done legally and right

The facts are that immigration is a net positive for our country.

you and I don't get to decide every day in the USA which laws we can break because it best suits us to break them do we? and if we are caught we're certainly not rewarded for breaking those laws are we?

That's a perspective only the advantaged are privileged to hold. Coming into this country (illegally) for a better life is exactly what you'd do - for you and your family - if the circumstances were switched.

Tell me you wouldn't.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I could care less about such strict gatekeeping.... it's an impossible task anyway.

That (bolded above) has become obvious.

 

[quip]

do you deny the massive difference between Biden's border and Trump's border ? as far as people entering illegally ?

Massive indeed. Families being torn apart by indiscriminate deportation, lack of fundamental rights and dignity. It's cruel optics...fit for a king.

 

[quip]

That (bolded above) has become obvious.

Making you feel good about yourself is not my priority.

 

[Allan]

You break the law you have to leave and get back in line.

An asylum claimant is not breaking the law.

 

[eohrnberger]

So immigrants who came legally thru a designated point/port of entry including those millions seeking asylum from their home country, right. They were photographed, tagged, given instructions, and released into the population. If they follow their instructions, sign 'em up, right?

Just "sign 'em up"?
No.
They are eligible to go through the naturalization process. All in compliance with the existing laws which cover that process and their requirements.

 

[trumptman]

Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.

Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?

An asylum claimant is not breaking the law.

Looks like someone is moving the goalposts...

Moving the goalposts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's your OP and there's the move since I defeated it.

You're welcome.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

What Trump's ICE units are doing is concentrating on identifying illegal migrants who have committed crimes,

This is a lie. This isn't true. Fox News is lying to you. Trump is lying to you. Stephen Miller is lying to you. Breitbart is lying to you. Newsmax is lying to you.

 

[ttwtt78640]

An asylum claimant is not breaking the law.

IIRC, asylum claims must be made within one year of arrival in the US.

 

[Allan]

IIRC, asylum claims must be made within one year of arrival in the US.

That's more than enough time for a bona fide refugee to make a claim and start the process.