Should immigrants have a path to citizenship?

[stealthycat]

Of course they should.

This is a really stupid poll.

if it was "should people who broke our laws and came here illegally be granted a path to citizenship after ignoring our law"

what would you say ?

 

[tharock220]

They should be given work visas as part of an expanded program that essentially allows anyone without a criminal history who can speak English and be productive to be permitted to come here and work, but only if it’s done as part of a bigger immigration reform package that secures the border, addresses birthright citizenship, and imposes stronger penalties for violations of immigration law.

 

[stealthycat]

They should be given work visas as part of an expanded program that essentially allows anyone without a criminal history who can speak English and be productive to be permitted to come here and work, but only if it’s done as part of a bigger immigration reform package that secures the border, addresses birthright citizenship, and imposes stronger penalties for violations of immigration law.

it wouldn't have mattered

these people DO NOT CARE about laws - they do what they want because they want to

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am just arguing that there was once a time when being unauthorized simply meant that you were doing things the wrong way and in order to gain legal entrance you had to file the proper paperwork and show the proper clearances and submit to criminal background checks, then you were allowed space and time to proceed.

I mentioned both my illegal alien parents earlier.
Here is something borrowed from the internet that tells a similar tale.

Kathy Hurley Martin​

·
This man walked into the Dallas US Immigration & Customs Office in 1976 as an undocumented immigrant, and told the officials that he wanted to correct his Visa status. He wasn’t handcuffed and deported. He wasnt caged, and ripped apart from his American citizen son and legally documented immigrant wife.
Instead he was given the steps to take, and then traveled to Mexico undocumented again in order to retrieve the appropriate paperwork. Back then, pathways to legal citizenship existed. He became a legal resident, and eventually became a US citizen in the early 1990s.
He left everything behind in Mexico, including his siblings, in order to achieve more, and create opportunities for himself, and his future children. He later assisted in bringing his siblings to the US so that they could do the same, and have the same opportunities.
He climbed the corporate ladder with Hilton Inc. He started as a painter, and after 40 years in the hospitality industry, retired as an Engineering Manager, and at the time, the longest employed person at the Hilton Anatole Hotel. His children have graduated college, and earned Associates, Bachelors and Masters Degrees. His oldest grandchild recently graduated from college and works for a world-renowned accounting firm.
This is my daddy. He is the immigrant story, and I couldn’t be prouder to be his daughter. I speak up and advocate for immigrants like him- people who are not criminals, but driven individuals determined to make something of themselves. Happy Father’s Day to this brave man, my daddy, and to others like him.

---by KRYSTAL MOORE

 

[ALiberalModerate]

If you think lefties all thought decriminalizing fentanyl is the truth, I don't know what to tell YOU.
If you'd like to know this particular liberal's opinion, frankly, this is the first I heard that Portland tried to decrim fentanyl and I think it's ridiculous.
What were they thinking?
Obviously it is not decriminalized anymore, at least I hope not.

I referred to the far left, and I wasn't talking about decriminalizing fentanyl (which was also a terrible idea), but rather being so opposed to deporting illegal immigrants that they don't even ask or verify the immigration status of Honduran Fentanyl dealers that provide the majority of the fentanyl killing people in Portland. The point being, the American Cultural Right does not have a monopoly on craziness and stupidity, there is, unfortunately, plenty of it to go around on the American Cultural Left as well.

The difference in the Right and Left in America used to be that while they both had their crazies, the Left would call out their crazies, while the Right was far too tribal to do so. Unfortunately, these days, both sides are so tribal that they both are kneejerk reactionary.

Shit like decriminalizing fentanyl, not deporting criminals, not prosecuting theft under 800 dollars, not prosecuting vandalism, not dealing with homeless encampments and so on, are stupid and are terrible government policy, and we should call it what is even though its coming from our side. Especially considering that kind of shit is much of the reason Trump was reelected.

While I am at it, here is another utterly asinine argument coming out of the far left: "No human is illegal on stolen land." Its performative bullshit because its not like the self righteous assholes holding those signs have any intention of giving their home, their property, their parks, their roads, or their workplace back to Native Americans. Normal people hate that kind of preachy, performative, virtue signaling bullshit, and Democrats up and down the ballot get tarred with it.

 

[maxparrish]

Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.

Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?

No. Millions are on waiting lists who ARE obeying the law and have been on those lists longer than illegals. "Undocumented" means they unlawfully crossed the border or unlawfully overstayed their VISA. And if they are working, it is quite common for them to be using false documents and SSI numbers (or working for cash).

They made their money ignoring and breaking US laws, and it is absurd to "gift" anyone citizenship for doing so. I'd rather deport the lot and give an equal number of work visas to those who are in line and followed the law. They deserve consideration, not border jumpers.

Of course, if they were legal their average wage and benefits would be greater and the same business interests would be then complaining about the cost of labor. The whole point of illegal immigration for those who say we need it is that its cheap only so long as it is illegal.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I referred to the far left, and I wasn't talking about decriminalizing fentanyl (which was also a terrible idea), but rather being so opposed to deporting illegal immigrants that they don't even ask or verify the immigration status of Honduran Fentanyl dealers that provide the majority of the fentanyl killing people in Portland. The point being, the American Cultural Right does not have a monopoly on craziness and stupidity, there is, unfortunately, plenty of it to go around on the American Cultural Left as well.

The difference in the Right and Left in America used to be that while they both had their crazies, the Left would call out their crazies, while the Right was far too tribal to do so. Unfortunately, these days, both sides are so tribal that they both are kneejerk reactionary.

Shit like decriminalizing fentanyl, not deporting criminals, not prosecuting theft under 800 dollars, not prosecuting vandalism, not dealing with homeless encampments and so on, are stupid and are terrible government policy, and we should call it what is even though its coming from our side. Especially considering that kind of shit is much of the reason Trump was reelected.

While I am at it, here is another utterly asinine argument coming out of the far left: "No human is illegal on stolen land." Its performative bullshit because its not like the self righteous assholes holding those signs have any intention of giving their home, their property, their parks, their roads, or their workplace back to Native Americans. Normal people hate that kind of preachy, performative, virtue signaling bullshit, and Democrats up and down the ballot get tarred with it.

I was fine with everything but the "Up and Down the Ballot" business.
The reason George Gascón got booted wasn't just conservatives. He lost support across the board.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

No. Millions are on waiting lists who ARE obeying the law and have been on those lists longer than illegals.

ICE has been arresting THOSE people too, apparently even when they arrive for the final interview before being granted citizenship.
Perhaps you missed that news?

 

[Perotista]

Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.

Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?

Yes to all legal immigrants, no to illegal ones.

 

[maxparrish]

ICE has been arresting THOSE people too, apparently even when they arrive for the final interview before being granted citizenship.
Perhaps you missed that news?

Then presumably they were arrested because violated the law, so the question is how bad is a system that is about to grant citizenship without knowing the person is an illegal?

 

[Ahlevah]

Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.

Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?

Let’s call them what they are. They’re not “undocumented immigrants.” They have documents. Just not documents that permit them to be here legally. If they’re here illegally, they’ve committed a crime. You don’t normally grant “amnesty” to someone who hasn’t broken the law. What are we telling people who play by the rules and wait, sometimes decades, to enter the country legally if we grant amnesty—again—to illegals?

Because we granted millions of immigrants amnesty in 1986. We were told that that was it—there would be no future amnesties because Congress made a permanent fix to the problem:

“We will ensure that this is a successful permanent reform to our immigration system that will not need to be revisited.”

Grassley Floor Speech: Lessons from the 1986 Immigration Reform Debate | U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa

Grassley Floor Speech: Lessons from the 1986 Immigration Reform Debate To see the video, click...

www.grassley.senate.gov

We don’t need to enact any law that encourages more illegal migration of poor, unskilled workers. And if by some measure of stupidity we do, there needs to be a strict enforcement mechanism. Good luck getting Democrats who think it’s cruel to enforce the existing law and want ICE abolished to agree to that. So until sanity come to Washington, keep the deportations coming.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Then presumably they were arrested because violated the law, so the question is how bad is a system that is about to grant citizenship without knowing the person is an illegal?

You presume a lot.
People just LIKE you in the Fifties also presumed a lot.
And before that, people in Germany in the Thirties presumed a lot.

Your presumptions reek of fail.

 

[maxparrish]

You presume a lot.
People just LIKE you in the Fifties also presumed a lot.
And before that, people in Germany in the Thirties presumed a lot.

Your presumptions reek of fail.

It is your presumption that the system works so well that anyone ready to get citizenship couldn't have violated immigration law previously. Given how often folks here bash the immigration system as broken it amazes me that you think it works perfectly.

Just so you know, you can't have it both ways.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It is your presumption that the system works so well that anyone ready to get citizenship couldn't have violated immigration law previously. Given how often folks here bash the immigration system as broken it amazes me that you think it works perfectly.

Just so you know, you can't have it both ways.

You presume even more.

 

[maxparrish]

You presume even more.

And you know this how, surely not because of your immaterial tangent about operation wetback and Germany in the 1930s?

 

[maxparrish]

Let’s call them what they are. They’re not “undocumented immigrants.” They have documents. Just not documents that permit them to be here legally. If they’re here illegally, they’ve committed a crime. You don’t normally grant “amnesty” to someone who hasn’t broken the law. What are we telling people who play by the rules and wait, sometimes decades, to enter the country legally if we grant amnesty—again—to illegals?

Because we granted millions of immigrants amnesty in 1986. We were told that that was it—there would be no future amnesties because Congress made a permanent fix to the problem:

Grassley Floor Speech: Lessons from the 1986 Immigration Reform Debate | U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa

Grassley Floor Speech: Lessons from the 1986 Immigration Reform Debate To see the video, click...

www.grassley.senate.gov

I like to remind folks that that they are not proposing "amnesty", they are proposing a "pardon" with compensation for having broken the law.

For an American guilty of wrong doing, "amnesty" is granted such that a criminal is given a second chance. They are usually expected to return whatever loot they have unlawfully obtained from their actions and to obey the law from that day forward.

For an illegal "Amnesty" means they keep their earnings from breaking the law, and from that day forward they can continue to reap the benefits for having broken the law, and will be given the privilege of not having to re-enter to be legal, unlike others in line.

That isn't "amnesty", that is SUPER PARDON with BENEFITS!

 

[LostInSeattle]

Yes of course, and historically being undocumented was a misdemeanor and it simply meant you were unauthorized, with the solution being you had to BECOME authorized.
Both my parents fled fascist Europe. Mother fled Mussolini and father fled Hitler. Neither country at the time offered a way to be documented when you snuck out so of course they both arrived with no documentation, an Italian little girl was "With Out Papers" (WOP) and a fifteen year old Jewish boy was of course, a refugee.

My mother's parents also had no documentation, such a thing being nonexistent in Italy at the time.
All of them filed the necessary papers and followed the necessary procedures to be admitted, both learned English and all filed for legal residency and eventually, citizenship.
My father was drafted almost immediately after and wound up right back in Germany as an American GI, a valuable native German speaker with a flair for radio communications engineering.
He was a Signal Corps soldier who took two Nazi bullets to the neck and jaw, recovered, received a Purple Heart and spent the rest of his life as a nuclear physicist for the DoD.

They had to GET authorized and so they did. No roughing up, no ICE raids, no rendition to black sites offshore, just a lot of paperwork and background checks.
My father's parents had to wait in Canada until 1949 before they were finally admitted to the USA, my paternal grandfather was a survivor of The Gestapo, who relieved him of his life savings, twenty-five million Marks in gold.

The situation as it is now is shameful, and unamerican.

One of the best posts I've read on this topic. Maybe the best.!!!

Thanks.

 

[LostInSeattle]

Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist.

In almost no way is this a good analogy.

 

[LostInSeattle]

I like to remind folks that that they are not proposing "amnesty", they are proposing a "pardon" with compensation for having broken the law.

For an American guilty of wrong doing, "amnesty" is granted such that a criminal is given a second chance. They are usually expected to return whatever loot they have unlawfully obtained from their actions and to obey the law from that day forward.

For an illegal "Amnesty" means they keep their earnings from breaking the law, and from that day forward they can continue to reap the benefits for having broken the law, and will be given the privilege of not having to re-enter to be legal, unlike others in line.

That isn't "amnesty", that is SUPER PARDON with BENEFITS!

Benefits?

Are you really under the delusion that the life of an undocumented immigrant is easy?

 

[LostInSeattle]

Amnesty is a trick proposal. President Regan had an agreement with the democrats to shut off illegal immigration and to pass amnesty, and they failed to do that. Why should any amnesty be offered until the border is secure? Secure the border first,m and i will be an active proponent of amnesty.

According the administration, the border IS secure.

What is your definition of "secure"?

I say it is tricky, because just speaking about it and publicly supporting it would bring in a flood of illegal immigrants to beat any given deadline.

 

[LostInSeattle]

it wouldn't have mattered

these people DO NOT CARE about laws - they do what they want because they want to

IF that were true, undocumented immigrants would be breaking the law left and right. They're not.

 

[MamboDervish]

Just more TDS.

Thanks for proving my point.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

As expected, no rebuttal.

However, the administration did intimidate social media sights like Facebook and Twitter to in effect bury the stories about Hunter's laptop and declare them as Russian disinformation.

.... and now the goalpost moving, once again proving my point.

When the handpicked judge and jury were all biased against Trump, not much the best Trump lawyers could do but appeal. That appeal is in progress.

LIES! Trump's attorneys had exactly the same jury challenges as anybody else would have. Look it up! How could you fall for such bullshit, let alone regurgitate it?

Just more TDS.

Yeah - and a minimum of 1,300 more days for you to keep it up. I guess it's just something to look forward to ... no doubt to give your life meaning. Every time somebody calls Trump and his administration on his stupidity, his failings, his incompetence, his Kleptocracy, his fascism, his criminality, his flip-flops for profit and his lies, you can jump back in with your sparkling TDS party noisemaker. Be sure to wear a tall pointy hat when you do, and keep them both handy, because they're going to see a lot of use over the next 3-1/2 years. Enjoy.

 

[maxparrish]

Benefits?

Are you really under the delusion that the life of an undocumented immigrant is easy?

Are you really under the delusion that there are NOT benefits to working even illegally in the US that outweigh the benefits of them working in their own country?

If so, they would have stayed home.

 

[trixare4kids]

Convicted in a kangaroo court assisted by a politically weaponized Justice Department.

They all know this.

All but the hardcore ultra-extreme left TDS crowd understands that. The 2024 election bears that out.

They use the label as a partisan attack even though Trump’s sentencing on January 10, 2025, resulted in an “unconditional discharge” with no jail time or fines, which some argue mitigates the label’s weight. Some are still attacking him, calling him a felon like it would make a bit of difference. You're right. The popular vote, the EC proved exactly what this was. A politically driven witch-hunt they actually believed would be enough to keep him out of office. The voters saw right through it.

 

[trixare4kids]

Thanks for proving my point.

As expected, no rebuttal.

.... and now the goalpost moving, once again proving my point.

LIES! Trump's attorneys had exactly the same jury challenges as anybody else would have. Look it up! How could you fall for such bullshit, let alone regurgitate it?Y

Yeah - and a minimum of 1,300 more days for you to keep it up. I guess it's just something to look forward to ... no doubt to give your life meaning. Every time somebody calls Trump and his administration on his stupidity, his failings, his incompetence, his Kleptocracy, his fascism, his criminality, his flip-flops for profit and his lies, you can jump back in with your sparkling TDS party noisemaker. Be sure to wear a tall pointy hat when you do, and keep them both handy, because they're going to see a lot of use over the next 3-1/2 years. Enjoy.

Just one comment. You'd be better using those 1,300 more days of Trump being in office to figure out how team Democrats lost so badly.