Should hereditarians and race realists be allowed to express their opinions? (1 Viewer)

[SmartCat]

Keep in mind that the outcome of such research could very well lead to genetic manipulation of the human genome with very uncertain results. What other purpose would such research have? Do you believe we should use science to create the "perfect" human?

Yes.

Right now my chief concern is dysgenics. During most of history men with high IQ's and no inclination to engage in crime had more children who survived and reproduced than man with low IQ's and/or genetic inclinations to engage in crime. Now people who have the least to offer the process of human evolution are the most prolific. While this is happening, computer technology and automation are eliminating the kind of jobs most people have the intelligence to learn how to perform. The human species is approaching a genetic shakeout. It will not be pretty.

Dysgenics is happening in the absence of genetic manipulation. Genetic manipulation may be required to reverse the process.

I have read that the Chinese are developing the ability to create designer babies. Married couples will produce a large number of embryos. These will be genetically tested for intelligence, criminal behavior, and other abilities and behaviors. Eventually it will even be possible to estimate physical attractiveness. The most promising embryo will be inserted into the wife's womb to become a fetus, and eventually a baby. When it can happen it will happen. Most parents would rather have a child who becomes a Rhodes Scholar than one who fails in school and spends most of his life in reform school and prison.

The Chinese are moving forward on this kind of research while we in the West continue to pretend that there is no relationship between genes, intelligence, crime, and race, and that "Race is only a social construct." Those unwilling to pretend are frightened into silence to keep their jobs. The future of the economy, civilization, and the continued advance of human evolution lies with the Chinese. If you have children, try to get them to learn Mandarin.

 

[JustHanging]

Hereditarianism is the belief that genes, or more specifically gene alleles, are more important than anything else in determining ability - most importantly intelligence - and behavior - most importantly criminal behavior - than any other factor.

Race realism is the belief that race is an important biological classification for humans - similar to sub species among other animals - that the races differ significantly in average intelligence, criminal and sexual behavior, and that these differences are the result of evolving in response to different population pressures for thousands of years.

Hereditarianism and race realism are often considered to be racist, and for that reason unworthy of discussion, and meriting censorship.

I will begin this discussion by stating that I believe in hereditarianism and race realism. I believe that these have legitimate policy implications, and that policies that are based on assumptions about the human species that are incorrect are likely to have harmful results.

It is clear to me that agriculture and civilization have different population pressures than hunting and gathering, and that races that have practiced agriculture and civilization the longest are better suited to create and maintain successful civilizations than races that have been, comparatively speaking, more recently introduced.

I am defining a civilization as a city based society where the government has the effective monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. I believe that during most of history civilizations have selected biologically for intelligence, and against criminal behavior, while tribal societies have selected biologically for characteristics that are often disruptive for civilizations.

Of course they should be allowed to express their opinions, and they do, constantly. Like right here in this thread. And at Stormfront.

 

[SmartCat]

Minorities are not treated the same as whites in our justice system. Therefore, there are more minorities in prison. Therefore, people believe what you just said.

Which minorities are you talking about? Orientals are less likely to spend time in prison than white Gentiles. This is because they are less likely to commit crimes. They deserve to spend less time in prison, just as Negroes and Hispanics deserve to spend more time in prison because they have higher crime rates.

 

[SmartCat]

I don't think you can back up that statement.

Actually, grades are a better predictor of success in future academic pursuits.

and lots of students do well in college, but never seem to be able to make a decent living in the real world.

There are different sorts of intelligence.

In the early 1990s, Bill Gates was asked what competitor worried him the most. Goldman Sachs, Gates answered. He explained: "Software is an IQ business. Microsoft must win the IQ war, or we won't have a future. I don't worry about Lotus or IBM, because the smartest guys would rather come to work for Microsoft. Our competitors for IQ are investment banks such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley." Gates's comment reflected a reality that has driven the formation of the new upper class: Over the last century, brains became much more valuable in the marketplace.

The Truth About Income Inequality in America - The Atlantic

In 1984 George Orwell wrote: "All rulers in all ages have tried to impose a false view of the world upon their followers, but they could not afford to encourage any illusion that tended to impair military efficiency. So long as defeat meant the loss of independence, or some other result generally held to be undesirable, the precautions against defeat had to be serious. Physical facts could not be ignored. In philosophy, or religion, or ethics, or politics, two and two might make five, but when one was designing a gun or an aeroplane they had to make four."

The U.S. military pioneered the use of IQ testing during the First World War and has continued to use it because it separates recruits who have the intelligence to learn complex job skills from those who do not. Successful corporations also use IQ testing when they are allowed to legally. They know that if they do not hire the most intelligent people available their competitors will.

 

[blarg]

Hereditarianism is the belief that genes, or more specifically gene alleles, are more important than anything else in determining ability - most importantly intelligence - and behavior - most importantly criminal behavior - than any other factor.

Race realism is the belief that race is an important biological classification for humans - similar to sub species among other animals - that the races differ significantly in average intelligence, criminal and sexual behavior, and that these differences are the result of evolving in response to different population pressures for thousands of years.

Hereditarianism and race realism are often considered to be racist, and for that reason unworthy of discussion, and meriting censorship.

I will begin this discussion by stating that I believe in hereditarianism and race realism. I believe that these have legitimate policy implications, and that policies that are based on assumptions about the human species that are incorrect are likely to have harmful results.

It is clear to me that agriculture and civilization have different population pressures than hunting and gathering, and that races that have practiced agriculture and civilization the longest are better suited to create and maintain successful civilizations than races that have been, comparatively speaking, more recently introduced.

I am defining a civilization as a city based society where the government has the effective monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. I believe that during most of history civilizations have selected biologically for intelligence, and against criminal behavior, while tribal societies have selected biologically for characteristics that are often disruptive for civilizations.

welp time to put the egyptians and the chinese in charge

 

[NWRatCon]

During the 2016 primary I voted for Bernie Sanders. In the 2016 general election I voted for Hillary Clinton. In the 2020 primary I intend to vote for Joe Biden.

I was a charter member of the Democratic Socialists Organizing Committee. That later became Democratic Socialists of America.

I. Don't. Believe. You. National Socialist? Maybe. Democratic socialist? Nah. Now I KNOW this is a troll thread.

 

[SmartCat]

This would be a statement of rank ignorance.

This only illuminates that you CLEARLY do not know many African-Americans, much less call many "friend". That's not surprising, at all. It's predictable, in fact. As an African-American male, I can't tell you the last time an "aggreived" white guy like you had the stones to call me a "Negro". That's the kind of stuff you white grievance types use on anonymous message boards. You people are cowards by nature. But, I digress....the reality here is that you don't get to establish the terms by which other groups chose to self-identify.

That aside, your recalcitrant attitude toward the use of "Oriental" and "African-American", etc is reflective of your entitlement issues...which is not uncommon among older white conservative males in our society. You people are angry and fearful because you see "your" America giving way to diversity, tolerance and inclusiveness. Everyone understands that.

Diversity and inclusion are euphemisms for affirmative action. Affirmative action lowers mental standards for Negroes and Hispanics and physical standards for women. Those standards exist for legitimate reasons. A university can practice affirmative action. Negroes and Hispanics who are admitted because of affirmative action drop out, flunk out, or they get useless majors in subjects like black studies and Hispanic studies. They end up in low wage jobs. The universities still deposit their tuition money in the bank, brag about having a student body that "looks like America," and continues the scam.

Corporations often give rhetorical support for affirmative action, but they seldom practice it. They know that if they do not hire the most intelligent applicants, their competitors will.

---------

The Mercury News, February 11, 2010

Hispanics and blacks made up a smaller share of the valley’s computer workers in 2008 than they did in 2000, a Mercury News review of federal data shows...

It is also evident in the work forces of the region’s major companies. An analysis by the Mercury News of the combined work force of 10 of the valley’s largest companies — including Hewlett-Packard, Intel, Cisco Systems, eBay and AMD — shows that while the collective work force of those 10 companies grew by 16 percent between 1999 and 2005, an already small population of black workers dropped by 16 percent, while the number of Hispanic workers declined by 11 percent...

With the number of white computer workers also dropping after 2000, Asians were the exception. They now make up a majority of workers in computer-related occupations who live in Silicon Valley.

Blacks, Latinos and women lose ground at Silicon Valley tech companies – The Mercury News

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By "Asian" the article of course means Orientals: Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and Vietnamese. These are not getting most of the best jobs in Silicon Valley because of irrational racial prejudice. They are getting most of the best jobs because Orientals tend to be more intelligent than white Gentiles, who tend to be more intelligent than Hispanics, who tend to be more intelligent than Negroes.

Full disclosure, although posters on antisemitic websites sometimes claim that I am Jewish because I praise the Jews, I am a white Gentile.

 

[SmartCat]

Did anyone ever tell you about the Post Hoc Fallacy?

It is not always a fallacy. Correlation is often the only way to evaluate causation.

If you say "Roosters crow before the sun rises, so Rooster crowing causes the sun to rise," that is an example of the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy.

If you say "Children who perform well on IQ tests given at the age of seven tent to perform well academically as students and economically as adults," that is not an example of the fallacy.

 

[Napoleon]

True. And those, in turn, ultimately came from the Middle East.

Nope. The Greeks and before them the Pelasgians. Civilization did not branch out from the Middle East. It arose independently in various parts of the world.

 

[SmartCat]

People with these genes commit 5-10% of the crimes in Finland. People without the genes commit the other 85-90% of the crimes. I'm not seeing this as a real game changer in the fight against crime.

That is a clever argument. Nevertheless, people with the crime alleles are more likely to become violent criminals than people without the crime alleles.

I will explain it a different way. If you select a group of twenty people with recognized crime alleles, and select a group of twenty people without recognized crime alleles, those in the first group will have a much larger number of felony convictions between them than those in the second group. Keep in mind that as of yet only a few crime alleles have been discovered, so those in the second group are likely to have crime alleles that have not been discovered yet.

 

[SmartCat]

I. Don't. Believe. You. National Socialist? Maybe. Democratic socialist? Nah. Now I KNOW this is a troll thread.

Why would I want to lie about something like that? Trump supporters brag about being Trump supporters.

I am not an ideologue and a partisan. My opinions are not motivated by what I want to believe, but by what I can prove factually. Some of my opinions are unflattering to me. Nevertheless, I have learned that it is better to act on the basis of undesirable truths than it is to act on the basis of fantasies that are fun to believe.

 

[SmartCat]

welp time to put the egyptians and the chinese in charge

I do expect China to achieve world hegemony by the end of this century if not sooner. I hope that by the time China dominates the world China will have adopted a democratic government.

 

[blarg]

I do expect China to achieve world hegemony by the end of this century if not sooner. I hope that by the time China dominates the world China will have adopted a democratic government.

because they are bred for it and not because they have a lot of people and resources to put to work?

 

[SmartCat]

because they are bred for it and not because they have a lot of people and resources to put to work?

One out of five people in the world is Chinese. Moreover the Chinese have an average IQ of 105. China dominated the world from the end of the Western Roman Empire to the beginning of the Italian Renaissance. Once again the the Chinese are coming into their own.

 

[blarg]

One out of five people in the world is Chinese. Moreover the Chinese have an average IQ of 105. China dominated the world from the end of the Western Roman Empire to the beginning of the Italian Renaissance. Once again the the Chinese are coming into their own.

ya haivng 1 in 5 people is going to naturally get you some results especially if your as knowledgeable as anyone else

yet those upstart romans managed to dominate the greeks who should be well along path of being superior by breeding not to mention how well those primitive tribal germanic peoples did

culture and know how seems very important but these genetics selections would have had to happen in centuries at most that seems doubtful and even if it were true would rapidly equalize a modern worlds populations

think people are generally a lot alike and that being smarter and getting along with your groupe are generally selected for everywhere

not sure how having a fre extra centuries or a even millennia of peasants in your society is going to make you all that special then some one with more hunter gathers and small time agriculture in ther genealogy

 

[Good4Nothin]

One out of five people in the world is Chinese. Moreover the Chinese have an average IQ of 105. China dominated the world from the end of the Western Roman Empire to the beginning of the Italian Renaissance. Once again the the Chinese are coming into their own.

You really think that extra 5 IQ points means anything? You really think China can dominate the world with 5 extra IQ points?

Any culture that emphasizes education will have a higher average IQ. Because illiterate people bring down the average.

And I bet you don't even know what IQ is. It was made up by people who don't know what intelligence is. No one knows what intelligence is, not even psychologists who specialize in IQ.

So your racist BS is based on sheer nonsense.

 

[SmartCat]

You really think that extra 5 IQ points means anything? You really think China can dominate the world with 5 extra IQ points?

Any culture that emphasizes education will have a higher average IQ. Because illiterate people bring down the average.

And I bet you don't even know what IQ is. It was made up by people who don't know what intelligence is. No one knows what intelligence is, not even psychologists who specialize in IQ.

So your racist BS is based on sheer nonsense.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The average IQ in China is 105. The average IQ for Arabs is about 90. Cold weather also seems to breed for higher intelligence.

China has no less than 70 different climate zones ranging from almost tropical, to arid desert, to vast plains and even sub-Arctic.
Weather patterns in China are not and never have been monolithic.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

One out of five people in the world is Chinese. Moreover the Chinese have an average IQ of 105. China dominated the world from the end of the Western Roman Empire to the beginning of the Italian Renaissance. Once again the the Chinese are coming into their own.

The Dark Ages were marked by a distinct downturn in education of the masses. China's investment in universal education today is a fact.
Know what else is a fact? Our "universal" (public primary and secondary) educational system has been under consistent attack for forty years.
When I graduated from the Montgomery County Maryland Public School System (high school) in 1975, American public school education was among the best in the world.

 

[D_NATURED]

Yes, but that does not mean being placed where you are unqualified to be placed. That does you no favors. One can be very well educated without attending Harvard or Yale.

Yes, and one can be a giant moron who poses as erudite. When you say "unqualified", who do you think is unqualified for education? Are they black? That sounds like the most vile bigotry.

 

[Master Debator]

That is a clever argument. Nevertheless, people with the crime alleles are more likely to become violent criminals than people without the crime alleles.

I will explain it a different way. If you select a group of twenty people with recognized crime alleles, and select a group of twenty people without recognized crime alleles, those in the first group will have a much larger number of felony convictions between them than those in the second group. Keep in mind that as of yet only a few crime alleles have been discovered, so those in the second group are likely to have crime alleles that have not been discovered yet.

Again, it is transparently obvious that you are trying to wrap genetic research around your ridiculous race fantasies. No where does your linked studies show Blacks and Hispanics have a higher number of these alleles. You're trying to use crime statistics to bolster that argument but the actual genetic study makes no such connection. Also the study that showed alleles for intelligence also did not try to imply that one particular race had more of these, you're trying to use college admissions to bolster that argument as well. What the study did show is that people who have these alleles also are more frequently predisposed to be autistic. Try backing up your arguments with actual facts and research rather than logical fallacies and bull**** racism.

 

[SmartCat]

Again, it is transparently obvious that you are trying to wrap genetic research around your ridiculous race fantasies. No where does your linked studies show Blacks and Hispanics have a higher number of these alleles. You're trying to use crime statistics to bolster that argument but the actual genetic study makes no such connection. Also the study that showed alleles for intelligence also did not try to imply that one particular race had more of these, you're trying to use college admissions to bolster that argument as well. What the study did show is that people who have these alleles also are more frequently predisposed to be autistic. Try backing up your arguments with actual facts and research rather than logical fallacies and bull**** racism.

5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men carried the 2R allele.[12][10][11][13][14][15][16][17][18][19]...

In humans, an association between the 2R allele of the VNTR region of the gene and an increase in the likelihood of committing serious crime or violence has been found.[9][35][12].

Monoamine oxidase A - Wikipedia

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Those who claim that we all have the Warrior Gene, so that it does not matter, state a misleading truism. A gene is a location on a chromosome. A gene can have one of several alleles. In the case of the Warrior Gene, there is a correlation between having the 2R allele in the Warrior Gene, criminal behavior, and being a black man.

We should keep in mind that the science of genetic criminology is in its infancy, and liberals want to strangle the infant in its crib. The same people who claim that high rates of black crime are not genetically caused oppose scientific research into this and do what they can to prevent it.

The same is true of looking for genetic reasons for racial differences in average intelligence. Race is an area where the more one ignores scientific findings - and the more one opposes scientific research - the more enlightened one is said to be.

 

[snakestretcher]

The United States has a high crime rate because we have high populations of blacks and Hispanics.

Racist nonsense.

 

[snakestretcher]

No major invention or discovery has emerged from the Muslim world for well over seven centuries now.

- Pervez Hoodbhoy, head of physics Department in Islamabad, P.A. Hoodbhoy, "Science and the Islamic World - The Quest for Rapprochement," Physics Today 60, no. 8 (2007): 49-55.

Estimates of Arab IQ's place them below 90.

IQ by Country

This puzzles me in view of what I have already said about the effect civilization has in selecting for higher intelligence. Nevertheless, cold weather also selects for intelligence.

I suspect that the Arab slave trade in Negroes has also contributed to lower Arab IQ averages. The Arab trade in Negro slaves began centuries before the European slave trade. Arabs castrated male slaves. They conscripted female slaves into brothels and harems. Through that conduit Negro IQ alleles entered the Arab genome.

More racism from you. Why don't you go back to Stormfront where you'll be a lot happier among your fellow bigots, trying to rationalise racism with pseudo science. You certainly haven't demonstrated your alleged 'superior' intelligence.

 

[Master Debator]

5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men carried the 2R allele.[12][10][11][13][14][15][16][17][18][19]...

In humans, an association between the 2R allele of the VNTR region of the gene and an increase in the likelihood of committing serious crime or violence has been found.[9][35][12].

Monoamine oxidase A - Wikipedia

From the linked studies that wiki page sites...

The VNTR 2 repeat in MAOA and delinquent behavior in adolescence and young adulthood: associations and MAOA promoter activity

Although our sample is large, the 2 repeat is rare. Though the findings concerning 2R for men have passed the standard tests of significance in spite of the small category of 2R, it is possible that some of our findings could be attributable to chance. For this reason, it is important that these findings are replicated in a much larger population-based study. Future replications may prove the importance of the 2R allele, but the allele cannot possibly be involved in most delinquent behavior because of its rarity, just like the rare mutation in the*MAOA*gene the Dutch family6*cannot explain most of the delinquency.

Stop trying to piggy back your ignorant racism on actual science.

Those who claim that we all have the Warrior Gene, so that it does not matter, state a misleading truism. A gene is a location on a chromosome. A gene can have one of several alleles. In the case of the Warrior Gene, there is a correlation between having the 2R allele in the Warrior Gene, criminal behavior, and being a black man.

You mean for 5.5% of black men. Meaning 94.5%, the vast majority do not and even then the study only finds correlation not causation. And even then the 2r allele is not the only gene responsible violent tendencies, none of the studies come close to concluding that. In fact they indicate environmental factors can influence genes and that if anything, way more study needs to be done.

We should keep in mind that the science of genetic criminology is in its infancy,

Hilarious, I was just thinking the same about you.