Should hereditarians and race realists be allowed to express their opinions? (1 Viewer)

[Rickeroo]

I am confident that you also feel less threatened by the presence of a young Japanese man than you are by the presence of a young black man.

Correct. I am forced to based on reality.


If you look at that chart you will see that Latin American countries usually have higher murder rates than sub Saharan countries. Like you I have wondered about that. UNODC acknowledges that its figures are provided by the governments of the various countries. I suspect that in Latin American countries there are more people who are able and willing to keep reliable statistics than in most sub Saharan countries.

This is understandable. Anecdotally, there is a YouTube channel called 'active self defense' that routinely has brazen gun-related crimes caught on surveillance, mostly from Brazil. However, I'm also aware of houses in South Africa having security fences as standard equipment.

In the early 1980's I lived in downtown San Jose, California when a large number of Vietnamese war refugees move there. Most of them were very poor. They were also very safe to live with. I would often get off work at 10:00 pm, and walk three miles home to my apartment. I was perfectly safe. If I tried that in the black majority city where I live now I would risk my life. If I did that on a regular basis I would probably be murdered in a few months, if not sooner.

You describe here the mechanics of white flight: the dynamic by which white people vote with their feet and seek out safer enclaves. Thankfully, "racism" as defined by popular media doesn't include white flight, which is an absolute, in-your-face insult to blacks when whites choose not to live in areas populated by blacks. The media is too busy counting confederate statues and how many times people say 'bad words'.


I have been on white supremacist websites where I was banned for praising Jews and Orientals. I am a race realist. I am not a white nationalist. I am not a white supremacist. I do not identify with the alt right. My impression of alt rightists is that most are white men who would rather blame their problems on non whites, Jews (who they do not consider to be white) and liberals than the fact that increasingly the kinds of jobs they have the intelligence to learn how to perform can be performed better and less expensively by computers and industrial robots.

Indeed, finding out what the issue was with Jews is the reason I went to explore those sites. Jews and Asians have socially superior statistics to whites. Whether whites are genetically or culturally inferior to Jews and Asians is immaterial - the fact remains that whites are inferior. There's no sense whining over it, as the white supremacists seem to do. The more one blames another race, the less esteem they have for their own race, and more importantly, themselves. The day I start blaming others (or more comically, an entire race) for my own lack of performance is the day I've given up on myself. My self-esteem would be trash at that point. Whites whining about Jews makes whites look weak. Blacks whining about whites (or leftist whites whining on behalf of blacks) makes blacks look weak: It sounds like excuses are being made.



I prefer social democracy to the American system of casino capitalism, where the odds favor the house. Nevertheless, social democracy has only worked well in countries where nearly everyone is white and of European descent. Unfortunately, most Social Democrats do not recognize that. I believe on the basis of what has happened to the United States and what is happening to Europe that multi racialism is the death wish of social democracy.

You are on the right track, but I think the multi-racialism aspect is nuanced for political purposes. They want us to pay attention to race, when race is merely the surface. Behind it is the raw emotional response based on behavior and expectations. Take Boston 1974 and the busing issue. Imagine during the height of the protests, the black children coming to the white school turned blue. No more "black skin" to get racist over. However, the low expectations that whites have for them would not change, and the protests would continue. It's not so much the racial aspect, but the way in which we regard different people, supposedly in the same country, with different esteem. People don't have an issue with race - they have an issue with what is underneath: the behavior.

 

[Master Debator]

Correct. I am forced to based on reality.

Right. The reality is if you're white you are far more likely to suffer violence at the hand of other white men than black ones. But don't let facts get in the way of your casual racism.

 

[veritas1]

Yes, and one can be a giant moron who poses as erudite. When you say "unqualified", who do you think is unqualified for education? Are they black? That sounds like the most vile bigotry.

Are you really this obtuse? Qualifications have to do with academic standing and ability, not race. Only the left wants to make it all about race. Race, by itself, doesn't qualify you for anything.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Which minorities are you talking about? Orientals are less likely to spend time in prison than white Gentiles. This is because they are less likely to commit crimes. They deserve to spend less time in prison, just as Negroes and Hispanics deserve to spend more time in prison because they have higher crime rates.

What you're doing is an example of circular reasoning:

More blacks and Hispanics are in jail because they commit more crimes, and
We know they commit more crimes because more of them are in jail.

The justice system does not treat them the same way as whites. Moreover, if you select for economic level, there just may not be more blacks and Hispanics in jail than there are whites. It's a question of poverty and culture, not genetics.

 

[Dittohead not!]

In the early 1990s, Bill Gates was asked what competitor worried him the most. Goldman Sachs, Gates answered. He explained: "Software is an IQ business. Microsoft must win the IQ war, or we won't have a future. I don't worry about Lotus or IBM, because the smartest guys would rather come to work for Microsoft. Our competitors for IQ are investment banks such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley." Gates's comment reflected a reality that has driven the formation of the new upper class: Over the last century, brains became much more valuable in the marketplace.

The Truth About Income Inequality in America - The Atlantic

In 1984 George Orwell wrote: "All rulers in all ages have tried to impose a false view of the world upon their followers, but they could not afford to encourage any illusion that tended to impair military efficiency. So long as defeat meant the loss of independence, or some other result generally held to be undesirable, the precautions against defeat had to be serious. Physical facts could not be ignored. In philosophy, or religion, or ethics, or politics, two and two might make five, but when one was designing a gun or an aeroplane they had to make four."

The U.S. military pioneered the use of IQ testing during the First World War and has continued to use it because it separates recruits who have the intelligence to learn complex job skills from those who do not. Successful corporations also use IQ testing when they are allowed to legally. They know that if they do not hire the most intelligent people available their competitors will.

All very interesting, but really has noting to do with my original post.

There are different types of "intelligence."
The best predictor of academic success in college is grades in high school.
The best predictor of academic success overall is not a score on a test, but the educational level of the mother.

If you select for only one factor, race, and keep all other factors, such as poverty and parents' educational level the same, then race will not matter. Children of a white single mom who dropped out of high school and is on welfare aren't going to do as well as children of an intact and functioning black family with parents who are college grads.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Why would I want to lie about something like that? Trump supporters brag about being Trump supporters.

I am not an ideologue and a partisan. My opinions are not motivated by what I want to believe, but by what I can prove factually. Some of my opinions are unflattering to me. Nevertheless, I have learned that it is better to act on the basis of undesirable truths than it is to act on the basis of fantasies that are fun to believe.

That's admirable.

Unfortunately, some of what you consider to be proven factually are actually fantasies that are fun to believe. Lots of people like to think that they're superior to someone, and that blacks and Hispanics are inferior to them genetically. The facts don't support that fantasy, as we've already seen in this thread. What is attributed to race is actually social status, expectations, and culture, not a part of the human genome.

 

[SmartCat]

That's admirable.

Unfortunately, some of what you consider to be proven factually are actually fantasies that are fun to believe. Lots of people like to think that they're superior to someone, and that blacks and Hispanics are inferior to them genetically. The facts don't support that fantasy, as we've already seen in this thread. What is attributed to race is actually social status, expectations, and culture, not a part of the human genome.

Negroes and Hispanics tend to be less intelligent than white Gentiles. Orientals and Jews tend to be more intelligent than white Gentiles. I am a white Gentile. I admire Orientals and Jews for a number of reasons, including their high IQ averages.

Race exists independent of "social status, expectations, and culture." A person's race can usually be determined by appearance, and always by DNA analysis.

 

[SmartCat]

All very interesting, but really has noting to do with my original post.

There are different types of "intelligence."
The best predictor of academic success in college is grades in high school.
The best predictor of academic success overall is not a score on a test, but the educational level of the mother.

If you select for only one factor, race, and keep all other factors, such as poverty and parents' educational level the same, then race will not matter. Children of a white single mom who dropped out of high school and is on welfare aren't going to do as well as children of an intact and functioning black family with parents who are college grads.

The different kinds of intelligence correlate in ways that intelligence and athletic ability do not correlate. Blacks whose parents have graduate degrees and upper middle class incomes tend to perform less well on mental aptitude tests than whites whose parents only finished high school and earn lower middle class incomes. This happens because of a well understood genetic phenomenon called "reversion to the average." Exceptional characteristics are caused by recessive genes that rarely match in the children. Because blacks have a lower average than whites, they have a lower average to recede to.

 

[SmartCat]

What you're doing is an example of circular reasoning:

More blacks and Hispanics are in jail because they commit more crimes, and
We know they commit more crimes because more of them are in jail.

The justice system does not treat them the same way as whites. Moreover, if you select for economic level, there just may not be more blacks and Hispanics in jail than there are whites. It's a question of poverty and culture, not genetics.

I have read that blacks and whites who commit the same crimes receive the same punishment. If this is not always true it is because judges and juries know that blacks tend to be more inclined to crime, so they require more of a deterrent.

 

[SmartCat]

Right. The reality is if you're white you are far more likely to suffer violence at the hand of other white men than black ones. But don't let facts get in the way of your casual racism.

4 News Fact Check, 27 Nov 2014

93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks and 84 per cent of white victims were killed by whites...

But academics have noted that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.

This doesn’t support the idea that the police are unfairly discriminating against the black population when they make arrests.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime? – Channel 4 News

 

[Noodlegawd]

Hereditarianism is the belief that genes, or more specifically gene alleles, are more important than anything else in determining ability - most importantly intelligence - and behavior - most importantly criminal behavior - than any other factor.

Race realism is the belief that race is an important biological classification for humans - similar to sub species among other animals - that the races differ significantly in average intelligence, criminal and sexual behavior, and that these differences are the result of evolving in response to different population pressures for thousands of years.

Hereditarianism and race realism are often considered to be racist, and for that reason unworthy of discussion, and meriting censorship.

I will begin this discussion by stating that I believe in hereditarianism and race realism. I believe that these have legitimate policy implications, and that policies that are based on assumptions about the human species that are incorrect are likely to have harmful results.

It is clear to me that agriculture and civilization have different population pressures than hunting and gathering, and that races that have practiced agriculture and civilization the longest are better suited to create and maintain successful civilizations than races that have been, comparatively speaking, more recently introduced.

I am defining a civilization as a city based society where the government has the effective monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. I believe that during most of history civilizations have selected biologically for intelligence, and against criminal behavior, while tribal societies have selected biologically for characteristics that are often disruptive for civilizations.

You're allowed to express any opinion you want, no matter how idiotic. That doesn't mean you won't pay a price for it.

 

[Excast]

People are allowed to say all manner of idiotic and offensive thing. That doesn't mean they should expect absolutely no consequences, whether it be personally or professionally.

 

[Master Debator]

4 News Fact Check, 27 Nov 2014

93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks and 84 per cent of white victims were killed by whites...

But academics have noted that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.

This doesn’t support the idea that the police are unfairly discriminating against the black population when they make arrests.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime? – Channel 4 News

Whether blacks are more often than not the victims of black offenders or whites those of white defenders has nothing to do with whether law enforcement or the criminal justice system in general discriminates against blacks. In fact recent reports by the DOJ suggests over-policing and aggressive policing of young black men is very real.

Cities across the country have been riddled with accusations of police abuse - Vox

 

[NWRatCon]

View attachment 67267787

So shouts that avowed racist. Did you get that from Spencer?

 

[SmartCat]

More racism from you. Why don't you go back to Stormfront where you'll be a lot happier among your fellow bigots, trying to rationalise racism with pseudo science. You certainly haven't demonstrated your alleged 'superior' intelligence.

When I am insulted I know that I have won the argument. Usually I decline to respond because I do not want to give the insulter more attention than the insulter deserves.

Several years ago I did establish a profile on Stormfront. My pseudonym was Baldur. He was a member of the pre Christian Germanic pantheon. I wanted to see how long I would be allowed to stay on Stormfront before I was banned. The first week I was there I contributed to a thread about Germanic mythology. That is a subject I know about.

The second week I became more daring, and contributed to a thread about Mein Kampf. If you have never heard of Mein Kampf, it is a big thick book written by Adolf Hitler. I have read it in its entirety. When I quoted a footnote from my English translation of Mein Kampf that pointed out that one of Hitler's accusations against German Jews was incorrect I was suspended. Soon later I was banned.

I have a high regard for Jews.

 

[NWRatCon]

When I am insulted I know that I have won the argument.

The quintessence of trollerism.

 

[SmartCat]

Whether blacks are more often than not the victims of black offenders or whites those of white defenders has nothing to do with whether law enforcement or the criminal justice system in general discriminates against blacks. In fact recent reports by the DOJ suggests over-policing and aggressive policing of young black men is very real.

Cities across the country have been riddled with accusations of police abuse - Vox

Because young black men are much more likely to be criminals than other people the police should scrutinize them more closely than other people.

 

[SmartCat]

People are allowed to say all manner of idiotic and offensive thing. That doesn't mean they should expect absolutely no consequences, whether it be personally or professionally.

There should be no sanctions against telling the truth, even when the truth is offensive.

 

[Good4Nothin]

That's admirable.

Unfortunately, some of what you consider to be proven factually are actually fantasies that are fun to believe. Lots of people like to think that they're superior to someone, and that blacks and Hispanics are inferior to them genetically. The facts don't support that fantasy, as we've already seen in this thread. What is attributed to race is actually social status, expectations, and culture, not a part of the human genome.

Also consider that our species moved around a lot and interbred a lot.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Negroes and Hispanics tend to be less intelligent than white Gentiles. Orientals and Jews tend to be more intelligent than white Gentiles. I am a white Gentile. I admire Orientals and Jews for a number of reasons, including their high IQ averages.

Race exists independent of "social status, expectations, and culture." A person's race can usually be determined by appearance, and always by DNA analysis.

I am Jewish and have a high IQ. So you should admire my opinion that your opinions on race are crap.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Blacks whose parents have graduate degrees and upper middle class incomes tend to perform less well on mental aptitude tests than whites whose parents only finished high school and earn lower middle class incomes.

Where the heck did you get that "fact" from?

 

[Master Debator]

Because young black men are much more likely to be criminals than other people the police should scrutinize them more closely than other people.

So no comment addressing the findings of the DOJ just more light racism. Rinse repeat.

 

[Excast]

There should be no sanctions against telling the truth, even when the truth is offensive.

There are different ways of framing the truth.

How do you believe your black neighbors and coworkers should respond were you to go up to them and tell them they are more likely to be criminals and deserve special scrutiny from the police? A smile and a friendly nod?

People are people. They come in all sorts of skin colors, shapes, and sizes. They all have different skills they excel at and some that are weaknesses. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by seeking to make grand generalizations of entire groups based pretty much solely on nationality or what they look like.

 

[ataraxia]

There should be no sanctions against telling the truth, even when the truth is offensive.

Confidently claiming that violent behavior, academic performance, and civilization are due to genetic/hereditary/innate factors is not telling the truth. It’s just making offensive stuff up. You have neither history nor science behind you.

It’s one thing to say offensive truths. It’s another to just make them up.

 

[SmartCat]

Claiming violent behavior, academic performance, and civilization are due to genetic/hereditary/innate factors is not telling the truth. You are just making stuff up. You have neither history nor science behind you.

Those who continue to believe that criminal behavior and intelligence are not largely influenced by gene alleles believe something for which there is no evidence at all. Even without recent findings in genetics, the different races differ durably in ways that demonstrate genetic causation.