Should Hawaii become the model for nationwide gun-control?

[Fruityfact]

maybe you should actually do something other than whine about my arguments when far less supported crap from anti gun posters doesn't ever meet with your criticism. that was the first thing I saw going back on some old threads on another board where this came up. the fact is, there is no evidence that the Hawaii registration has solved any crimes. google it yourself if you actually want to debate rather than whine about one side while giving the side that you support a pass

Quit talking about facts when you have none.

 

[PleasantValley]

In Hawaii, in order to get a permit to buy a gun you must pass a very thorough background check. A permit to buy a handgun is only good for the purchase of one handgun and is only good for ten days. The police also keep records of gun registration. . If the applicant has been diagnosed with a mental illness then a doctor’s approval must be obtained. A permit to buy long guns is good for one year.
Hawaii?s gun laws among strictest in nation | Hawaii Tribune-Herald

According to the Centers for Disease Control, Hawaii has very low gun homicide and suicide rates compared to the rest of the nation. Between 2008 and 2014 Hawaii had a homicide rate of 0.62 per 100,000 compared to a national average of 3.78 per 100,000. During these same years, Hawaii had a gun suicide rate of 2.56 per 100,000 compared to a national average of 6.4 per 100,000.
https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/cdcMapFramework/mapModuleInterface.jsp

According to an article published in the American Journal of Public Health, Hawaii has the lowest rate of non-fatal firearm injuries out of all fifty states:
View attachment 67225633
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26066935

Has there ever even once been a person who has been convinced or changed their mind over posting charts and graphs?
Yet it is done here over and over again to no avail.
Charts and graphs are like polls. Completely subjective and usually made with an end result already in mind. Made to prove that predetermined end result.
To me at least, National Gun Control is an oxymoron.
Each state should determine their own policy and the Feds should stay out of it completely.
If you hate guns, then move to HI, CA, IL, MA, RI, CT or NY.
If you enjoy shooting move to most of the other 43 states.
That is freedom of choice.

 

[TurtleDude]

Quit talking about facts when you have none.

partisan hackery at its silliest

 

[vegas giants]

No, it really doesn't.

Yes it really does

 

[vegas giants]

John Lott's Website: Glenn Beck and gun registration

Registration programs in Hawaii, DC, and Chicago can't point to any crimes that have been solved as a result of registration.

I love when people post about John Lott. I get to talk about how much he has been discredited

 

[Maccabee]

In Hawaii, in order to get a permit to buy a gun you must pass a very thorough background check. A permit to buy a handgun is only good for the purchase of one handgun and is only good for ten days. The police also keep records of gun registration. . If the applicant has been diagnosed with a mental illness then a doctor’s approval must be obtained. A permit to buy long guns is good for one year.
Hawaii?s gun laws among strictest in nation | Hawaii Tribune-Herald

According to the Centers for Disease Control, Hawaii has very low gun homicide and suicide rates compared to the rest of the nation. Between 2008 and 2014 Hawaii had a homicide rate of 0.62 per 100,000 compared to a national average of 3.78 per 100,000. During these same years, Hawaii had a gun suicide rate of 2.56 per 100,000 compared to a national average of 6.4 per 100,000.
https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/cdcMapFramework/mapModuleInterface.jsp

According to an article published in the American Journal of Public Health, Hawaii has the lowest rate of non-fatal firearm injuries out of all fifty states:
View attachment 67225633
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26066935

In a word: no.

First of all you have to prove or greatly substantiate that their gun laws has direct cause and effect on there crime rate. And showing casual correlation doesn't cut it. There's an actual correlation between cheese eating and dying from bed sheets.

 

[Galileo]

In a word: no.

First of all you have to prove or greatly substantiate that their gun laws has direct cause and effect on there crime rate. And showing casual correlation doesn't cut it. There's an actual correlation between cheese eating and dying from bed sheets.

So more experimentation is needed. Hawaii's gun control policies should be adopted by the rest of the United States to see if the results will be the same.

 

[Galileo]

Has there ever even once been a person who has been convinced or changed their mind over posting charts and graphs?
Yet it is done here over and over again to no avail.
Charts and graphs are like polls. Completely subjective and usually made with an end result already in mind. Made to prove that predetermined end result.
To me at least, National Gun Control is an oxymoron.
Each state should determine their own policy and the Feds should stay out of it completely.
If you hate guns, then move to HI, CA, IL, MA, RI, CT or NY.
If you enjoy shooting move to most of the other 43 states.
That is freedom of choice.

The problem with states determining their own gun policies is that the gun laws of one state can undermine the gun laws of another state. Guns can be trafficked from states with lax gun laws to states with strict gun laws. Thus, gun control needs to be consistent across the US.

 

[Galileo]

I think Vermont's gun control scheme which is number three safest on your chart

(no laws against concealed or open carry, private sales, very few gun free zones, no gun bans on any kind, even legal for felons to own) will be far cheaper to implement and thus a better value for the injury reduction.

Vermont, however, has a high gun suicide rate.

 

[TurtleDude]

So more experimentation is needed. Hawaii's gun control policies should be adopted by the rest of the United States to see if the results will be the same.

doesn't work that way. you don't piss on the rights of millions to SEE if such pissing works to decrease crime. we know that other gun banning or gun restricting schemes were abject failures in places like DC and Chicago

I don't hear you saying we ought to try the laws of Vermont which make it one of the least gun violent states in the country. but then again you are on record wanting to ban most people from owning most guns

 

[TurtleDude]

Vermont, however, has a high gun suicide rate.

so what? that has nothing to do with crime.

 

[TurtleDude]

The problem with states determining their own gun policies is that the gun laws of one state can undermine the gun laws of another state. Guns can be trafficked from states with lax gun laws to states with strict gun laws. Thus, gun control needs to be consistent across the US.

yeah lets get rid of stupid gun laws in states like California and NJ. then there would be no need to traffic guns across state lines which of course is already illegal.

hopefully, as Trump appoints more and more judges who are pro second amendment, stupid state gun laws that violate the second amendment as incorporated by McDonald will get bitch slapped away.

 

[vegas giants]

so what? that has nothing to do with crime.

Gun deaths. Dead is dead

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Gun deaths. Dead is dead

The difference is, in gun friendly states you have higher suicides thus higher gun crime deaths but in gun control states you're more likely to be murdered in a Democrat controlled city.

So long as you're not suicidal, better to be free.

 

[Lursa]

Vermont, however, has a high gun suicide rate.

Suicide does not affect public safety. All law-abiding people shouldnt be punished because of individual choices.

 

[TurtleDude]

Gun deaths. Dead is dead

that is the sort of nonsense we continually see from you. suicides are far different, in terms of societal interest and intervention than violent crime. Try again. You use suicides to try to convince those not paying attention that states that don't harass honest gun owners as much as you want have higher "gun deaths" and you hope the undecided will think that means homicides.

 

[vegas giants]

that is the sort of nonsense we continually see from you. suicides are far different, in terms of societal interest and intervention than violent crime. Try again. You use suicides to try to convince those not paying attention that states that don't harass honest gun owners as much as you want have higher "gun deaths" and you hope the undecided will think that means homicides.

They are both of interest. This is the gun control forum. Not the gun crime control forum. Suicides by gun belong in EVERY discussion on gun control

 

[Lursa]

They are both of interest. This is the gun control forum. Not the gun crime control forum. Suicides by gun belong in EVERY discussion on gun control

Why should my 2A rights be infringed because of people who make an individual decision that harms no one else?

This doenst mean I dont support them getting all the help they need from their family and professionals but why should I have to pay a price for their issues?

 

[TurtleDude]

They are both of interest. This is the gun control forum. Not the gun crime control forum. Suicides by gun belong in EVERY discussion on gun control

why? so you can pretend suicides require legislation designed to harass honest gun owners? registration won't stop suicides whatsoever. licenses won't either.

 

[vegas giants]

Why should my 2A rights be infringed because of people who make an individual decision that harms no one else?

This doenst mean I dont support them getting all the help they need from their family and professionals but why should I have to pay a price for their issues?

Suicide harms many. The price you are asked to pay is minimal. Its worth it

 

[vegas giants]

why? so you can pretend suicides require legislation designed to harass honest gun owners? registration won't stop suicides whatsoever. licenses won't either.

I see you left out waiting periods that have evidence they reduce suicides....and homicides. 1700 lives a year could be saved

 

[Lursa]

Suicide harms many. The price you are asked to pay is minimal. Its worth it

THe price for their decision is worth my life or my safety or that of my family?

No. Maybe you think your family isnt worth more, but mine is.

 

[Lursa]

I see you left out waiting periods that have evidence they reduce suicides....and homicides. 1700 lives a year could be saved

A breathalyzer implemented on EVERY vehicle sold or currently on the road. Must pass before car will start. Would probably save more than 1700 lives a year.

Shall we propose that legislation?

 

[vegas giants]

THe price for their decision is worth my life or my safety or that of my family?

No. Maybe you think your family isnt worth more, but mine is.

Uh....how is filling out a form or waiting three days putting your familys life in jeopardy?

 

[vegas giants]

A breathalyzer implemented on EVERY vehicle sold or currently on the road. Must pass before car will start. Would probably save more than 1700 lives a year.

Shall we propose that legislation?

Sure. Go for it