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SHould Europe have its own army?

CEngelbrecht said:
Germany have been hesistant to re-militarize for a reason.

You twat...
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Germany re-militarized quite awhile ago. Their leopard uses the 125mm. It’s rifled too, is it not?
 
CEngelbrecht said:
Also, Germany wasn't a united country again untill 1991.
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About three years ago I finally got to view their two 128mm A/T vehicles in pictures. One had a MKVI body with regular panzer wheels. The other had a Prague type body with corresponding wheel assemblies. The second prototype was used as an “ overwatch “Klinertigers
 
CEngelbrecht said:
As if Brexit wasn't rigged by the Kremlin too.
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I don't have any credibility in a discussion of Brexit and the Russians.

Our elections where not "rigged" by the Russians. They were influenced by the Russians. But they were not rigged. If anything Comey's idiot behavior as Dir of FBI had more to do with the final Presidential Election result than the entire Russian effort IMO. Comey should never and I do mean never have risen beyond Deputy Dir of FBI status. The guy has had a God complex for as long as anybody has watched him function.

Hilary's bombastically rotten campaign and her laughable performance as a candidate had more to do with our Elections than the Russians.

Anybody with a God complex should never rise so high that he can have that sort of influence simply by deciding on his own that the AG was compromised, thus taking it upon himself to just run wild. Somebody like that always needed a sign-off authority above him within his own department. Once Comey decided to ignore the authority of the AG, there was no real mechanism to control his ridiculous perspective on his role in that Election.

Comey has provided his own ready made rational for not including the AG in his decision making process and he spools it out utterly confident that he made a rational choice when it fact he made an utterly irrational choice.
 
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jnug said:
Sorry...wrong context AGAIN. I am an American, a native born US citizen. Frankly i don't know what the Right is any longer. The Right does not espouse American values and its hard to even find a glimmer of patriotism there. Conservatives as I knew them don't even exist, the last of them being driven underground as we speak. Maybe Lamar Alexander in the Senate would qualify as a traditional Conservative....MAYBE.
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You have not a clue as to what conservatives ARE or SHOULD BE.

Tell us what you think a conservative is... to your way of thinking. I laugh a lot already, but can always use the extra chuckle.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
I'm saying Putin would've been dead. Dragged through the streets like Gaddafi. That's why Putin had to rig POTUS.
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Except you have NO evidence, NONE, much less proof of those ludicrous statements.

Besides, the world would be under a radioactive cloud. Putin isnt French or German, he isnt just going to simply give up, let an idiot kill him, he would likely take everyone down with him...

Just how long are you folks going to keep this collusion charade going on your side? No sensible person fell for it in the first place, but its going on two years now that this farce was attempted.

Yano?
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Except you have NO evidence, NONE, much less proof of those ludicrous statements.

Besides, the world would be under a radioactive cloud. Putin isnt French or German, he isnt just going to simply give up, let an idiot kill him, he would likely take everyone down with him...
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Skull cancer, boys. In this the age of polonium and Novichok.

Anyone standing in the way of his "mission."

Gaugingcatenate said:
Just how long are you folks going to keep this collusion charade going on your side? No sensible person fell for it in the first place, but its going on two years now that this farce was attempted.
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Except the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

They all know. It's just against the rules saying it out loud to the thralls.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
Skull cancer, boys. In this the age of polonium and Novichok.

Anyone standing in the way of his "mission."



Except the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

They all know. It's just against the rules saying it out loud to the thralls.
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Are you self-diagnosing?

I shouldn't have to break it to ya this late in the game, Bubba, but the people working on creating the Russian hoax were the DNC and Fat Lady Campaign hiring Fusion GPS who hired a retired Brit intel guy who hired DOJ honcho Bruce Ohr's wife to help him make up the faked Trump connection.

Ohr gave it to the FBI and they more than ran with the hoax under Strzok and Page, McCabe and Comey, among many others [ ie, Stephen Halper, CIA/FBI, most likely Prof. Misfud]...

Don't you guys on that side keep up with events?
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
You have not a clue as to what conservatives ARE or SHOULD BE.

Tell us what you think a conservative is... to your way of thinking. I laugh a lot already, but can always use the extra chuckle.
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What do I think a traditional conservative is? Just about everything a Trumplican is not.

Traditional Conservatives are Reagan Republicans. They are:
- favored Immigration
- favored free trade
- despise tariffs under any circumstances and for any purpose
- understand the value of our global alliances and didn't treat them like playpen toys
- believed in less government not more corrupt government
- believed in economic stimulus when the economy needed stimulating not as some reward for the super rich and a sledgehammer against everybody else
- realized that the economy swings like a pendulum, that you can't use up tools during an economic recover that you would need to swing into play to smooth a recession
- recognized the the world order we had created kept us safe, did not endanger us more
- would never ever have deployed troops to the border of the US in a purely political venture of stupidity that had been deployed countless times in hostile places
- would never ever have suggested taking the WH physician and tossing him at the head of the VA. Traditional conservatives actually respected Vets
- would have publicly celebrated Veterans Day today

I could go on. But why should i.
 
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Gaugingcatenate said:
Are you self-diagnosing?

I shouldn't have to break it to ya this late in the game, Bubba, but the people working on creating the Russian hoax were the DNC and Fat Lady Campaign hiring Fusion GPS who hired a retired Brit intel guy who hired DOJ honcho Bruce Ohr's wife to help him make up the faked Trump connection.

Ohr gave it to the FBI and they more than ran with the hoax under Strzok and Page, McCabe and Comey, among many others [ ie, Stephen Halper, CIA/FBI, most likely Prof. Misfud]...

Don't you guys on that side keep up with events?
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Uhuh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".
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I don't give a hoot what "Europe" does.:coffeepap
 
jnug said:
What do I think a traditional conservative is? Just about everything a Trumplican is not.

Traditional Conservatives are Reagan Republicans. They are:
- favored Immigration
- favored free trade
- despise tariffs under any circumstances and for any purpose
- understand the value of our global alliances and didn't treat them like playpen toys
- believed in less government not more corrupt government
- believed in economic stimulus when the economy needed stimulating not as some reward for the super rich and a sledgehammer against everybody else
- realized that the economy swings like a pendulum, that you can't use up tools during an economic recover that you would need to swing into play to smooth a recession
- recognized the the world order we had created kept us safe, did not endanger us more
- would never ever have deployed troops to the border of the US in a purely political venture of stupidity that had been deployed countless times in hostile places
- would never ever have suggested taking the WH physician and tossing him at the head of the VA. Traditional conservatives actually respected Vets
- would have publicly celebrated Veterans Day today

I could go on. But why should i.
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First, you do not get to determine what a conservative is. Reagan, a great president yet certainly not recognized as such by the left and the media during his presidency, has passed. His style fit for that time.
1. You, like so many disingenuous on the left, conflate legal with illegal immigration. Conservatives advocate legal, you folks endorse illegal.

2. Reagan was nowhere near perfect on "free trade"... he was certainly not the purist as you make out.

3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveh...reagans-terrible-trade-policies/#2752e2ee7329 and https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa107.pdf regarding the lie about free trader tariffs of Reagan

4. Rainy day alliances are not truly alliances. Either our partners hold up their agreed-upon share, which does not rise to the level of fair share, or we have to call them on it just as Trump has.

5. Do you realize just how corrupt it was under slenderman? Just what we know of the shenanigans of that mis-administration in the DOJ, the spying on an opposing campaign, the specific wrongs by Holder [only AG in our history cited for Contempt of Congress ] and Lynch, Comey, McCabe, Strzok and Page, the Ohrs, Rice, Powers, etc et al.

6. Conservatives are NOT Keynesians. You simply have no idea what you are talking about.

I could go on, but you are WRONG on EVERYTHING re: conservatism... so "why should I"... go on? You are so lost in your jihadist style views of politics that it is comical.

Besides, as earlier stated... YOU do not get to determine what we are, or how we are going to be now or in the future.

Study up, get some real news and real history. Good lord, it doesn't take a Sherlock to figure this stuff out...

Yano? Being so wrong on EVERYTHING, one would have to surmise you don't, also stated earlier, have the first clue.
 
PeteEU said:
No...

The 2% is something that has that has to met by 2024.... so 6 years away.

EU member states spend 220 billion euros on defence and have 1.4 million active personel.

Russia, the so called enemy.. spends an estimated 70 billion euros a year and about 700k active personel.

So this whole discussion is really stupid. Strategic and tactically Russia would be out matched and out gunned even without US support in Nato. To attack Europe, Russia would have to go through Ukraine to reach any significant NATO country ( sorry Baltic countries ).. and while Russia has more tanks, EU NATO countries have more planes... so the only way Russia could win a war, would be to create a nuclear waste land which kinda defeats the purpose of any war...

Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk
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The 2% guideline has been in place awhile. The target date was established because so many are failing to meet the 2%. I also never suggested that Russia was going to invade Europe. That's an entirely different discussion. That the US pays a disproportionate share for NATO is simply a fact, regardless of what the others pay or how many personnel they have.
 
independentusa said:
Trump complained that the European nations were not spending enough on their military. Now the French president has made the statement that Europe my have to build it's own army as it does not see the US as someone they can depend on to help keep hem safe from the Russians if the Russians attempt to take back those nations it lost when the USSR collapsed or against any US intervention. Now Trump says that Europe should not develop their own army.
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Have to admit I don't understand this. This is THEIR game so let them have their own army and pay for it themselves. We should still be an ally and be an addition to their military. I don't understand the Europeans for not wanting to pay their fair share to NATO but now they're fine with paying for their own army and I don't understand Trump either for railing against the Europeans for not wanting to pay their fair share and then being against them creating their own army. None of it makes sense on any of the sides.
 
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