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SHould Europe have its own army?

independentusa

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Trump complained that the European nations were not spending enough on their military. Now the French president has made the statement that Europe my have to build it's own army as it does not see the US as someone they can depend on to help keep hem safe from the Russians if the Russians attempt to take back those nations it lost when the USSR collapsed or against any US intervention. Now Trump says that Europe should not develop their own army.
 

jnug

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Trump complained that the European nations were not spending enough on their military. Now the French president has made the statement that Europe my have to build it's own army as it does not see the US as someone they can depend on to help keep hem safe from the Russians if the Russians attempt to take back those nations it lost when the USSR collapsed or against any US intervention. Now Trump says that Europe should not develop their own army.

Europe should not be re-militarized either nation by nation (an idea Trump would favor) or by developing a European Military Footprint, which will never hold up. They can't even make an economic alliance last, obviously. If it were not for idiot Trump nobody would even be considering supplementing NATO.
 

Tom Horn

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I’d hate to think the Dutch were still on our side in any conflict. They have a tendency to not only surrender, but to arrest any others who wish to continue fighting.
 

Common Sense 1

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That decision should be left up to the European nations.
The free ride curiosity the US taxpayers is over with the Trump administration in charge!
The French president is just running his mouth... nothing more.
 

apdst

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Trump complained that the European nations were not spending enough on their military. Now the French president has made the statement that Europe my have to build it's own army as it does not see the US as someone they can depend on to help keep hem safe from the Russians if the Russians attempt to take back those nations it lost when the USSR collapsed or against any US intervention. Now Trump says that Europe should not develop their own army.

Sure. Get off our coat tails. Pay their own defense budget.
 

ecofarm

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Europe couldn't build an army to defend against Russia if it tried. Don't worry, we'll protect them.
 

maquiscat

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Trump complained that the European nations were not spending enough on their military. Now the French president has made the statement that Europe my have to build it's own army as it does not see the US as someone they can depend on to help keep hem safe from the Russians if the Russians attempt to take back those nations it lost when the USSR collapsed or against any US intervention. Now Trump says that Europe should not develop their own army.
I will agree that Europe as a Union should not develop an independent army. NATO is as close as it should get. The complaint that European nation's are not spending enough on their own individual defense, does not invalidate or conflict with an opinion that an multinational army should not be developed.

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CEngelbrecht

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Europe couldn't build an army to defend against Russia if it tried. Don't worry, we'll protect them.

I guess that is left to be seen.

Why the 'fake rape' story against German NATO forces fell flat in Lithuania | DW

We all know, that Trump's order from the Kremlin is to ignore NATO's fifth, when Putin rolls the tanks into the Baltic to take back Stalin's old war loot. That's the whole reason Putin rigged the 2016 POTUS in the first place.

199px-Coat_of_arms_of_the_European_Union_Military_Staff.svg.png
 

jnug

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NO to a European or EU based army which Trump does not like.

No to remilitarization of Europe on a country by country basis which Trump does like just based on his comment about 4% of their various GDP's going to their national defense. That would amount to a remilitarization of Europe, a bad idea if I ever heard one.

Not sure that an EU cyber force makes much sense either.

In addition, the free ride nonsense is just that, nonsense. Trump as usual has no idea what he is talking about. the 2% GDP target is just a target, not a requirement and the monies are monies spent into their own defense systems anyway. Trump talks like there is some past due bill to NATO to be paid...utter drivel as usual.

Finally, we get much more out of our NATA alliance than the pure defense budget numbers country by country would suggest. Its not just about numbers of tanks and various and other hardware and troops. As usual blowhard Donald either does not have a clue or simply does not care.
 
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CEngelbrecht

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I will agree that Europe as a Union should not develop an independent army. NATO is as close as it should get. The complaint that European nation's are not spending enough on their own individual defense, does not invalidate or conflict with an opinion that an multinational army should not be developed.

Untill Trump refuses to send US troops, when the Baltic is invaded by his boss in the Kremlin. With the rigged 2016 POTUS, NATO is compromised, and this is the answer.
 

YorkshirePete

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Trump complained that the European nations were not spending enough on their military. Now the French president has made the statement that Europe my have to build it's own army as it does not see the US as someone they can depend on to help keep hem safe from the Russians if the Russians attempt to take back those nations it lost when the USSR collapsed or against any US intervention. Now Trump says that Europe should not develop their own army.

Read some non knees news.
He was talking cyber, not boots on the ground
Jeez
 

jnug

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DamnYankee

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Sure. Get off our coat tails. Pay their own defense budget.

We ought to pull out of NATO. It would save American taxpayer's a huge amount of money. However we would have to keep Canada as a close ally since they are instrumental in the defense of both of our nations.

As for Europe, it's time to cut the apron strings.
 

YorkshirePete

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We ought to pull out of NATO. It would save American taxpayer's a huge amount of money. However we would have to keep Canada as a close ally since they are instrumental in the defense of both of our nations.

As for Europe, it's time to cut the apron strings.

I presume you were hand to hand in the trenches?
 

CEngelbrecht

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NO to a European or EU based army which Trump does not like.

Not gonna happen, mate. The guy weren't that smart.

No to remilitarization of Europe on a country by country basis which Trump does like just based on his comment about 4% of their various GDP's going to their national defense. That would amount to a remilitarization of Europe, a bad idea if I ever heard one.

Except for the Europeans. NATO is compromised.
 

jnug

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CEngelbrecht

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Tom Horn

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That was the Danes, not the Dutch. There's a difference.

That was the Dutch. On Java, Sumatra a few other islands. Plus they’re quite stingy with the fuel that was promised to us if we would fight for them.
 

jnug

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Because if Putin could rig 2016, he can't rig 2020? Y'all are not being asked no more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

You can't leave democracy to Vox populi, them thralls keep voting for the "wrong" candidate.

2016 was our problem more than it was an external influences problem. Hilary was such a horrid candidate that 7 million voters that voted for Obama for his second term just flat stayed home. She still overcame that by 3 million votes nationally...just in the wrong places. She never really recovered from being unable to motivate even a fraction of those 7 million voters that just stayed home, many of them in the battleground states.

But...but...we have just had the largest turnout for a mid-term election we have ever had...over 100 million voters and only 25 million short of the 2016 Presidential election. When we get the votes out the CT, flat earth, crackpot, "Its all Eve's fault" Creationist whackos lose. The dems recovered governorships in just the battleground states Hilary lost and recovered the House of Representatives.
 

maquiscat

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Untill Trump refuses to send US troops, when the Baltic is invaded by his boss in the Kremlin. With the rigged 2016 POTUS, NATO is compromised, and this is the answer.
This response does nothing to address my opinion on whether or not Europe should develop a multinational army, nor my assertion that the two positions Trump gave are not in conflict.

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Slavister

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We ought to pull out of NATO. It would save American taxpayer's a huge amount of money.

You have no idea what you are talking about... Tell us exactly please how much American taxpayer is spending specifically for NATO. What is that "huge amount of money" that you are referring to?
 
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