Should Diebold voting machines be out-lawed?

[Billo_Really]

As Elections Near, Officials Challenge Balloting Security
In Controlled Test, Results Are Manipulated in Florida System
By Zachary Goldfarb Special to The Washington Post
Sunday, January 22, 2006; Page A06

As the Leon County supervisor of elections, Ion Sancho's job is to make sure voting is free of fraud. But the most brazen effort lately to manipulate election results in this Florida locality was carried out by Sancho himself.

Four times over the past year Sancho told computer specialists to break in to his voting system. And on all four occasions they did, changing results with what the specialists described as relatively unsophisticated hacking techniques. To Sancho, the results showed the vulnerability of voting equipment manufactured by Ohio-based Diebold Election Systems, which is used by Leon County and many other jurisdictions around the country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/21/AR2006012101051.html

Without a verified paper trail, how can we be sure our votes are going towards the person we voted for? I think all electronic voting machines that do not have a verifiable paper trail should be out-lawed.

 

[Loxd4]

There reason why i say yes is b/c no paper trail...people can change the results....like hacker and the goverment without the common people know it...

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Loxd4:
There reason why i say yes is b/c no paper trail...people can change the results....like hacker and the goverment without the common people know it...

What was scary in the link I provided was that all four times they tried to hack the system, they suceeded with out too much effort. That's scary.

 

[Loxd4]

Paper voting is safer then diebold voting. If we do have computer voting they should print out a receipt and the person (that vote) would put it into the "Voting Box." It easier to shot a person who tempers with the box then a hacker...

 

[Mickyjaystoned]

Well it depends on the companies involved in the computer system, one company who were lobbying for computer ballots before the last election were actually chaired by a member of the Republican administartion if my memory serves me it was a female affiliate of the party one Katharen Harris, but in that case it is drastically illegal, you could have Republican backing companies creating a voting register for no other purpose than to get their party into power, similarily it could work for the democrats.

If the government wants to persist with this wacko notion then it needs to enforce strict guidelines and regulations eliminating any chance of foul play.

After all we don't want another situation like the Florida one after Bushs first election victory, thousands of black voters purged from the lists.

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=259&row=1

The civil rights activists knew in detail what most Americans today have yet to learn: In the five months leading to the 2000 presidential election, political appointees working for Florida Governor Jeb Bush and his Secretary of State Katherine Harris ordered the removal of 57,700 voters from Floridas vote registries.

 

[KCConservative]

Insuring voting security is one thing. Out-lawing Diebold for the left's baseless accusations is quite another.

Diebold faced the accusations in the last election and came out clean. The pot was stirred for political gain in Ohio and it was immediately refuted. Nothing happened.

I'm all for voting security....across the board. But to cite Diebold as being crooked company is disingenuous.

 

[Kandahar]

Insuring voting security is one thing. Out-lawing Diebold for the left's baseless accusations is quite another.

Diebold faced the accusations in the last election and came out clean. The pot was stirred for political gain in Ohio and it was immediately refuted. Nothing happened.

I'm all for voting security....across the board. But to cite Diebold as being crooked company is disingenuous.

I think the poll meant ANY voting machines that didn't have a paper trail. I don't like the idea of having our elections at the whim of Diebold or any other company. Remember, just because the accusations against Diebold in the last election may have been without merit, doesn't mean that they will always act honestly. It has nothing to do with Diebold specifically; they just happened to be the company with the most uncheckable voting machines.

 

[KCConservative]

I think the poll meant ANY voting machines that didn't have a paper trail.

That would have been a much more credible poll, IMO.

 

[Vandeervecken]

That would have been a much more credible poll, IMO.

Dibold is currently the only company that manufactures voting machines that have no hard copy back-up.

Dibold is chaired and owned by GOP activists of long standing.

Dibold has claimed they cannot manufacture a machine that does this and makes a hard copy as well; this despite the fact other companies market just such a device and Dibold makes millions of ATM machines with printers.

The fact nobody could prove they were fixed in Ohio doesn't mean they weren't. How do you prove it when the people who decide if the machine worked fairly are those who made the machines in the first place and are those whom are suspected of making them dirty?

 

[KCConservative]

The fact nobody could prove they were fixed in Ohio doesn't mean they weren't.

They weren't even used in Ohio. Stop getting your facts from Michael Moore. Here, let's ask the Ohio Democratic Party...

No Ohio County used Diebold Electronic Voting Machines (See Press Release Below)

Ohio did not use modern electronic voting machines in this election. Six counties use an older form of electronic voting, which has a means of verifying the accuracy of the vote. In 69 Ohio Counties, punch card ballots were used.

http://ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=191201

 

[Stinger]

The fact nobody could prove they were fixed in Ohio doesn't mean they weren't. How do you prove it when the people who decide if the machine worked fairly are those who made the machines in the first place and are those whom are suspected of making them dirty?

Because any machine voting system could be "fixed", and just because no one proved they were fixed in every county in America doesn't mean they weren't I guess and who knows maybe Bush won by 10%. Except local authorities are suppose to certify the machines before the election and after the election. They run a series of ballots or votes through the machines and make sure the outcome is what is expected, then after the voting is completed they do it again to make sure the outcome matches the "income".

Quite frankly I like the optical scanners because they do leave a paper trail, but then they can be confusing to the elderly which is why there was such an outcry after the 2000 election to come up with just such a system as the Diebold.

And BTW who is to say that the machine spits out a reciept showing the voter what he voted but that the machine itself is fixed so the tally is different, enough that it doesn't raise a flag but can change the outcome? I mean we can go off the deep end on this.

 

[Stinger]

They weren't even used in Ohio. Stop getting your facts from Michael Moore. Here, let's ask the Ohio Democratic Party...

No Ohio County used Diebold Electronic Voting Machines (See Press Release Below)

Ohio did not use modern electronic voting machines in this election. Six counties use an older form of electronic voting, which has a means of verifying the accuracy of the vote. In 69 Ohio Counties, punch card ballots were used.

http://ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=191201

Will it ever end? EARTH TO LIBERALS BUSH WON GET OVER IT. They are so quick to jump on any shred of evidence, even when it's not supported by the facts, they are so desperate.

 

[Billo_Really]

Orignally posted by Stinger:
Will it ever end? EARTH TO LIBERALS BUSH WON GET OVER IT. They are so quick to jump on any shred of evidence, even when it's not supported by the facts, they are so desperate.

EARTH TO STINGER, EARTH TO STINGER, this thread is not about Bush. It's about an un-verifiable voting machine and should we allow it without a verifiable paper trail.

 

[Billo_Really]

Orignally posted by KCConservative:
Insuring voting security is one thing. Out-lawing Diebold for the left's baseless accusations is quite another.

Diebold faced the accusations in the last election and came out clean. The pot was stirred for political gain in Ohio and it was immediately refuted. Nothing happened.

I'm all for voting security....across the board. But to cite Diebold as being crooked company is disingenuous.

Their machines can be hacked without too much trouble. You consider that a problem?

 

[KCConservative]

Their machines can be hacked without too much trouble. You consider that a problem?

I have already said I am for insuring vote security and fixing these kind of problems. But the problem did not assist a Bush victory in Ohio. Diebold machines were not used in Ohio. It's time this lie stopped being perpetuated.

 

[KCConservative]

Will it ever end? EARTH TO LIBERALS BUSH WON GET OVER IT. They are so quick to jump on any shred of evidence, even when it's not supported by the facts, they are so desperate.

It was about Bush when the Ohio Diebold lie began to circulate.

 

[Kandahar]

It was about Bush when the Ohio Diebold lie began to circulate.

There were a lot of legitimate concerns about the security of the Diebold machines prior to the election, and there still are. The fact that a few people latch on to this as an excuse to dispute the election, doesn't mean that there aren't some legitimate concerns as well.

 

[Billo_Really]

Orignally posted by KCConservative:
I have already said I am for insuring vote security and fixing these kind of problems. But the problem did not assist a Bush victory in Ohio. Diebold machines were not used in Ohio. It's time this lie stopped being perpetuated.

Our you on acid? This thread has nothing to do with Bush!

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Kandahar
There were a lot of legitimate concerns about the security of the Diebold machines prior to the election, and there still are. The fact that a few people latch on to this as an excuse to dispute the election, doesn't mean that there aren't some legitimate concerns as well.

Thank you.

 

[vergiss]

Insuring voting security is one thing. Out-lawing Diebold for the left's baseless accusations is quite another.

If they can be hacked, either side could tamper with results.

 

[jamesrage]

Without a verified paper trail, how can we be sure our votes are going towards the person we voted for? I think all electronic voting machines that do not have a verifiable paper trail should be out-lawed.

Is this another one of those lidiot-liberal-bush-stole-elections threads,because I think this site has a conspiracy forum section?

Amazing how you people first complained about paper ballots and turn around and criticize electonic voting machines.
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/08/14/loc_voting14.html
Therese Ash of Norwood uses a punch-card voting machine. Ohio is bracing for a potentially close election with the old system.
The Enquirer/ERNEST COLEMAN
Four years after the presidential election hung on a few chads in Florida, Ohio is bracing for another potentially close race with the same troublesome punch-card ballots.

State and county officials promise an accurate count, but critics are skeptical.

"We are headed for a train wreck because the state has not done its job," said Scott Greenwood, general counsel for the Ohio chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union,which is suing the state over the continued use of the old-fashioned ballots.

Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell helped draft a 2002 federal law giving states millions for more accurate voting machines.

But worries about security of the machines derailed Blackwell's effort to bring electronic voting to his own state in time for the Nov. 2 election, which means 69 of Ohio's 88 counties will still use punch cards.



Of course when it comes to voting machines I like the old fashioned paper ballot.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by jamesrage:
Of course when it comes to voting machines I like the old fashioned paper ballot.

Then why the rant? This thread has nothing to do with Bush.

 

[Deegan]

Dibold is currently the only company that manufactures voting machines that have no hard copy back-up.

Dibold is chaired and owned by GOP activists of long standing.

Dibold has claimed they cannot manufacture a machine that does this and makes a hard copy as well; this despite the fact other companies market just such a device and Dibold makes millions of ATM machines with printers.

The fact nobody could prove they were fixed in Ohio doesn't mean they weren't. How do you prove it when the people who decide if the machine worked fairly are those who made the machines in the first place and are those whom are suspected of making them dirty?

I think James was addressing this accusation, and how quickly this is made partisan, and not at all about a genuine concern for voter fairness. I don't trust the liberals that count the votes, and decide things like, "hanging chads" and other questionable inaccuracies. Can it ever be completely honest? I think computers, bring us as close as we will ever be, get it right, and get it in the system, asap!

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Deegan:
I think James was addressing this accusation, and how quickly this is made partisan, and not at all about a genuine concern for voter fairness. I don't trust the liberals that count the votes, anhd decide things like, "hanging chads" and other questionable inaccuracies. Can it ever be completely honest? I think computers, bring us as close as we will ever be, get it right, and get it in the system, asap!

I hated your guts when you first started posting here. Now I think I would actually vote for you if you ever ran for office. I'm also going to make it a habit of spending more time at your website. But that doesn't have anything to do with you. I just miss SKILMATIC and love bugging the sh!t out of him.

 

[Deegan]

I hated your guts when you first started posting here. Now I think I would actually vote for you if you ever ran for office. I'm also going to make it a habit of spending more time at your website. But that doesn't have anything to do with you. I just miss SKILMATIC and love bugging the sh!t out of him.

Well I love you too Billo, but the only hanging chad with my name on it, belongs to my lovely wife!

I would not ever run for anything, or from anything, the whole thing makes me sick. I think we can actually avoid the middle man, and just all e-mail our votes and concerns in. Just think of it, we want a road.......we all vote electronically, we want a school......we do the same. We will save billions, and avoid the corruption we see today, not to mention not dividing us all as we are today. I am all for it, but yes, let's get it right, I know we can.

I trust my money to this system, I can certainly trust it to bring me the next a$$hole in my district, state, or country.:roll: