Should Diebold voting machines be out-lawed?

[jamesrage]

Then why the rant? This thread has nothing to do with Bush.

Liberal posting a thread about voting machines and how votes can not be verified.Seems like a automatic bush stole the elections thread.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by jamesrage:
Liberal posting a thread about voting machines and how votes can not be verified.Seems like a automatic bush stole the elections thread.

I understand what your saying and cannot fault you for jumping to that conclusion because it makes sense. But I assure you, I was thinking of the upcoming mid-terms when I created this thread.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Deegan:
I trust my money to this system, I can certainly trust it to bring me the next a$$hole in my district, state, or country

It's OK, you can say asshole without the dollar signs. Unless KC is around. He gets highly offended by that sh!t.

 

[KCConservative]

Our you on acid? This thread has nothing to do with Bush!

Read post #9, billo. You'll see why I have mentioned Bush.

 

[tecoyah]

Liberal posting a thread about voting machines and how votes can not be verified.Seems like a automatic bush stole the elections thread.

And it almost became one....as soon as you made this post.

I find the lack of a hardcopy in these machines....unsettling. If indeed they stated they cannot make one with this feature.....they are either incompetent, or lying. Regardless...the simple fact that there is concern in the population as to the accuracy, should be enough to make changes to the technology. I can only imagine the issues from both sides (depending on results) following any election, if there is no means to verify the outcome.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by KCConservative:
Read post #9, billo. You'll see why I have mentioned Bush.

I don't see what that post had to do with Bush. It had to do with Diebold, who's CEO is a Republican campaign manager. Those are un-deniable absolute truths. So where is your logic that says this is a Bush-bashing thread? Is every absolute truth a Bush-bash?

The biggest problem with your arguement here is that Vandereeken did not create this thread. I did. And it was not about Bush. It was about Diebold and the upcoming mid-terms.

 

[KCConservative]

I don't see what that post had to do with Bush. It had to do with Diebold, who's CEO is a Republican campaign manager. Those are un-deniable absolute truths. So where is your logic that says this is a Bush-bashing thread? Is every absolute truth a Bush-bash?

The biggest problem with your arguement here is that Vandereeken did not create this thread. I did. And it was not about Bush. It was about Diebold and the upcoming mid-terms.

From post #9:

The fact nobody could prove they were fixed in Ohio doesn't mean they weren't. How do you prove it when the people who decide if the machine worked fairly are those who made the machines in the first place and are those whom are suspected of making them dirty?

Remember the big flap about Bush 'stole' Ohio, billo. I'm sure you do. You're a bright guy. You may have even perpetuated the rumor yourself. His remark about "fixed in Ohio" is clearly a regurgitation of that lie....which involved Bush....or more accurately, Kerry. If you can't see it, then, ah well....

 

[vergiss]

I love how the Conservatives are making this is a "Bush-bashing" thread. :lol:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by KCConservative:
Remember the big flap about Bush 'stole' Ohio, billo. I'm sure you do. You're a bright guy. You may have even perpetuated the rumor yourself. His remark about "fixed in Ohio" is clearly a regurgitation of that lie....which involved Bush....or more accurately, Kerry. If you can't see it, then, ah well....

I know exactly what your talking about. It's not news. It's also not the point of this thread.

 

[KCConservative]

I know exactly what your talking about. It's not news. It's also not the point of this thread.

Agreed. That's why I called him on it and corrected his Ohio accusation.

 

[KCConservative]

I love how the Conservatives are making this is a "Bush-bashing" thread. :lol:

Read post #9, vergiss. I don't think he's a conservative. Glad I could keep you honest.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by KCConservative:
Agreed. That's why I called him on it and corrected his Ohio accusation.

I'm not as well versed on Ohio as I should be. I will not argue this point.

 

[Vandeervecken]

Agreed. That's why I called him on it and corrected his Ohio accusation.

Your so called correction was wrong. They did indeen use Dibold machines in Ohio in the last presidnetial election. Here is an article from the Toledo Blade.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051115/NEWS09/511150361/-1/NEWS


Want to try again toi claim no Dibold machines were used in Ohio?

 

[KCConservative]

Your so called correction was wrong. They did indeen use Dibold machines in Ohio in the last presidnetial election. Here is an article from the Toledo Blade.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051115/NEWS09/511150361/-1/NEWS


Want to try again toi claim no Dibold machines were used in Ohio?

Very interesting article, Vandeervecken. By chance, did you notice the date of the article? Did you read the article at all? :lol:

This is explaining an election in November of 2005....about 3 months ago -- NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OF 2004 - WHICH USED NO DIEBOLD MACHINES IN OHIO. :lamo You're too easy, buddy.

Tell me something, vandeer. Does the Study Hall supervisor know you're doing this?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by KCConservative
NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OF 2004 - WHICH USED NO DIEBOLD MACHINES IN OHIO.

Since you threw down the gauntlet, I decided to do a little research on this topic of yours. It wasn't all that hard to find that you are FOS.

Worse Than 2000: Tuesday's Electoral Disaster
By William Rivers Pitt t r u t h o u t | Report Monday 08 November 2004

Everyone remembers Florida's 2000 election debacle, and all of the new terms it introduced to our political lexicon: Hanging chads, dimpled chads, pregnant chads, overvotes, undervotes, Sore Losermans, Jews for Buchanan and so forth. It took several weeks, battalions of lawyers and a questionable decision from the U.S. Supreme Court to show the nation and the world how messy democracy can be. By any standard, what happened in Florida during the 2000 Presidential election was a disaster.

What happened during the Presidential election of 2004, in Florida, in Ohio, and in a number of other states as well, was worse.

Some of the problems with this past Tuesday's election will sound all too familiar. Despite having four years to look into and deal with the problems that cropped up in Florida in 2000, the 'spoiled vote' chad issue reared its ugly head again. Investigative journalist Greg Palast, the man almost singularly responsible for exposing the more egregious examples of illegitimate deletions of voters from the rolls, described the continued problems in an article published just before the election, and again in an article published just after the election.

Four years later, and none of the Florida problems were fixed. In fact, by all appearances, they spread from Florida to Ohio, New Mexico, Michigan and elsewhere. Worse, these problems only scratch the surface of what appears to have happened in Tuesday's election. The fix that was put in place to solve these problems - the Help America Vote Act passed in 2002 after the Florida debacle - appears to have gone a long way towards making things worse by orders of magnitude, for it was the Help America Vote Act which introduced paperless electronic touch-screen voting machines to millions of voters across the country.

At first blush, it seems like a good idea. Forget the chads, the punch cards, the archaic booths like pianos standing on end with the handles and the curtains. This is the 21st century, so let's do it with computers. A simple screen presents straightforward choices, and you touch the spot on the screen to vote for your candidate. Your vote is recorded by the machine, and then sent via modem to a central computer which tallies the votes. Simple, right?

Not quite.

Is there any evidence that these machines went haywire on Tuesday? Nationally, there were more than 1,100 reports of electronic voting machine malfunctions. A few examples:

In Broward County, Florida, election workers were shocked to discover that their shiny new machines were counting backwards. "Tallies should go up as more votes are counted," according to this report. "That's simple math. But in some races, the numbers had gone down. Officials found the software used in Broward can handle only 32,000 votes per precinct. After that, the system starts counting backward."

In Franklin County, Ohio, electronic voting machines gave Bush 3,893 extra votes in one precinct alone. "Franklin County's unofficial results gave Bush 4,258 votes to Democratic challenger John Kerry's 260 votes in Precinct 1B," according to this report. "Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, said Bush received 365 votes there. The other 13 voters who cast ballots either voted for other candidates or did not vote for president."

In Craven County, North Carolina, a software error on the electronic voting machines awarded Bush 11,283 extra votes. "The Elections Systems and Software equipment," according to this report, "had downloaded voting information from nine of the county's 26 precincts and as the absentee ballots were added, the precinct totals were added a second time. An override, like those occurring when one attempts to save a computer file that already exists, is supposed to prevent double counting, but did not function correctly."

In Carteret County, North Carolina, "More than 4,500 votes may be lost in one North Carolina county because officials believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. Local officials said UniLect Corp., the maker of the county's electronic voting system, told them that each storage unit could handle 10,500 votes, but the limit was actually 3,005 votes. Officials said 3,005 early votes were stored, but 4,530 were lost."

In LaPorte County, Indiana, a Democratic stronghold, the electronic voting machines decided that each precinct only had 300 voters. "At about 7 p.m. Tuesday," according to this report, "it was noticed that the first two or three printouts from individual precinct reports all listed an identical number of voters. Each precinct was listed as having 300 registered voters. That means the total number of voters for the county would be 22,200, although there are actually more than 79,000 registered voters."

In Sarpy County, Nebraska, the electronic touch screen machines got generous. "As many as 10,000 extra votes," according to this report, "have been tallied and candidates are still waiting for corrected totals. Johnny Boykin lost his bid to be on the Papillion City Council. The difference between victory and defeat in the race was 127 votes. Boykin says, 'When I went in to work the next day and saw that 3,342 people had shown up to vote in our ward, I thought something's not right.' He's right. There are not even 3,000 people registered to vote in his ward. For some reason, some votes were counted twice."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110804A.shtml

Your just too easy buddy.

 

[KCConservative]

Since you threw down the gauntlet, I decided to do a little research on this topic of yours. It wasn't all that hard to find that you are FOS.

Your just too easy buddy.

THEY WEREN'T DIEBOLD MACHINES.....buddy. You don't seem to grasp what we were debating. I have never said that machines weren't used in Ohio. I have said (and proven) that Diebold machines weren't used.

Remember, this is what the Ohio Democratic Party says:

No Ohio County used Diebold Electronic Voting Machines (See Press Release Below)

Ohio did not use modern electronic voting machines in this election. Six counties use an older form of electronic voting, which has a means of verifying the accuracy of the vote. In 69 Ohio Counties, punch card ballots were used.

and this:

Blackwell Halts Deployment Of Diebold Voting Machines For 2004

July 16, 2004 COLUMBUS - Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell today halted deployment of Diebold Election Systems' electronic voting devices in Ohio for the 2004 General Election. The decision is based on preliminary findings from the secretary of state's second round of security testing conducted by Compuware Corporation showing the existence of previously identified, but yet unresolved security issues. Hardin, Lorain and Trumbull counties had selected to use new Diebold equipment this November. Those counties will use their current voting devices in 2004.

"As I made clear last year, I will not place these voting devices before Ohio's voters until identified risks are corrected," Blackwell said. "Diebold Election Systems has successfully addressed many, but not all, of the problems that were identified in our first security review. The lack of comprehensive resolution prevents me from giving county boards of elections a green light for this November.

"I look forward to working with Diebold Election Systems and our other qualified election system vendors as they continue to bolster security and develop voting devices that meet Ohio's requirement for voter-verifiable paper audit trails."

In December 2003, Secretary Blackwell released results from two comprehensive examinations identifying 57 potential security risks within the software and hardware of the voting devices offered by Ohio's qualified electronic voting systems vendors: Diebold Election Systems, Election Systems and Software, Hart Intercivic, and Sequoia Voting Systems. He ordered the voting machine manufacturers to resolve all of the identified issues or face a halt in deployment.

Diebold Election Systems was the only vendor to submit revised voting software and hardware for retesting.

Compuware Corporation, based in Detroit, conducted the thorough technical analysis of each of the electronic voting device vendors' software and hardware. InfoSENTRY, based in Raleigh, NC, conducted on-site vendor inspections and interviews to assess voting system vendors' security plans, procedures and processes.

It seems like the only one FOS is the writer of your truthout editorial, who also authored several Anti-Bush books. Hmmm.... (William Rivers Pitt is a New York Times and internationally bestselling author of two books - 'War on Iraq: What Team Bush Doesn't Want You to Know')



http://ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=191201

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by KCConservative
THEY WEREN'T DIEBOLD MACHINES.....buddy. You don't seem to grasp what we were debating. I have never said that machines weren't used in Ohio. I have said (and proven) that Diebold machines weren't used.

Remember, this is what the Ohio Democratic Party says:

No Ohio County used Diebold Electronic Voting Machines (See Press Release Below)

Ohio did not use modern electronic voting machines in this election. Six counties use an older form of electronic voting, which has a means of verifying the accuracy of the vote. In 69 Ohio Counties, punch card ballots were used.

and this:

Blackwell Halts Deployment Of Diebold Voting Machines For 2004

July 16, 2004 COLUMBUS - Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell today halted deployment of Diebold Election Systems' electronic voting devices in Ohio for the 2004 General Election. The decision is based on preliminary findings from the secretary of state's second round of security testing conducted by Compuware Corporation showing the existence of previously identified, but yet unresolved security issues. Hardin, Lorain and Trumbull counties had selected to use new Diebold equipment this November. Those counties will use their current voting devices in 2004.

"As I made clear last year, I will not place these voting devices before Ohio's voters until identified risks are corrected," Blackwell said. "Diebold Election Systems has successfully addressed many, but not all, of the problems that were identified in our first security review. The lack of comprehensive resolution prevents me from giving county boards of elections a green light for this November.

"I look forward to working with Diebold Election Systems and our other qualified election system vendors as they continue to bolster security and develop voting devices that meet Ohio's requirement for voter-verifiable paper audit trails."

In December 2003, Secretary Blackwell released results from two comprehensive examinations identifying 57 potential security risks within the software and hardware of the voting devices offered by Ohio's qualified electronic voting systems vendors: Diebold Election Systems, Election Systems and Software, Hart Intercivic, and Sequoia Voting Systems. He ordered the voting machine manufacturers to resolve all of the identified issues or face a halt in deployment.

Diebold Election Systems was the only vendor to submit revised voting software and hardware for retesting.

Compuware Corporation, based in Detroit, conducted the thorough technical analysis of each of the electronic voting device vendors' software and hardware. InfoSENTRY, based in Raleigh, NC, conducted on-site vendor inspections and interviews to assess voting system vendors' security plans, procedures and processes.

It seems like the only one FOS is the writer of your truthout editorial, who also authored several Anti-Bush books. Hmmm.... (William Rivers Pitt is a New York Times and internationally bestselling author of two books - 'War on Iraq: What Team Bush Doesn't Want You to Know')

http://ohiodems.org/index.php?displa...ails&id=191201

The article was not FOS. But you made your point. Diebold was not used. My apologies.

 

[vergiss]

Read post #9, vergiss. I don't think he's a conservative. Glad I could keep you honest.

Jeez, instead of whinging that this thread is something that it's not, how about we solve your paranoia by all agreeing not to mention Bush from this point forward? :roll:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Vergiss:
Jeez, instead of whinging that this thread is something that it's not, how about we solve your paranoia by all agreeing not to mention Bush from this point forward?

I don't think KC has the gut's to do it.

 

[KCConservative]

I don't think KC has the gut's to do it.

Them is fightin werds, billo. :cowboy: :blastem:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by KCConservative:
Them is fightin werds, billo.

With that being said, we will now join our original topic (in progress).