Should Dems move to the Right of Biden?

[ALiberalModerate]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

The most popular president since FDR was Bill Clinton. His politics are basically where the majority of the country is at. The most popular governors in the last 20 years have almost all been centrist/moderate Republicans in blue states.

The ad Trump ran that showed Harris being interviewed by a trans rights group where she said she was in favor of taxpayer funded transitioning surgeries for federal inmates and illegal immigrants, was the most effective negative ad that any candidate has ran in a presidential election, ever. It likely swung the election in Trump's favor. So we can confidently say that regardless of how most Americans feel about trans rights, the majority of Americans don't want their tax dollars paying for inmates to get transitioning surgeries. Now, you could argue (correctly), that in the scheme of things, that is a very minor issue in terms of people's lives - hardly any inmates have had transitioning surgeries paid for by taxpayers. That is true, but her taking that position made her seem extremely out of touch with the issues people really care about.

Democrats are the party of good government, they have to govern well to win. Over the last several years, Americans saw their cities devolve into what they perceived to be lawless, dangerous, filthy, drug filled dens of junkies in tents trashing parks and camping on their sidewalks. They saw what seemed like the border being overwhelmed, the most blue cities effectively decriminalizing fentanyl use, the companies they work for blowing incredible amounts of money enriching DEI consultants, and Democrats in Washington bragging about an infrastructure bill that the average American was seeing no impact in their life from because anymore it takes decades for anything to get done due to the amount of regulation and grift in any government infrastructure project.

So basically, Americans are well to the right of Democrats on crime and immigration, are in the middle on social issues (but the right of Democrats), are typically kneejerk isolationists when it comes to foreign policy, care about climate change but its not a voting issue for them, care about public health but its not a voting issue for them, care about infrastructure but they see the left in the way of a lot of it, and care about worker's rights.

People are very eclectic in their political positions. For example, if the "Big Beautiful Bill" is tanked, it won't be due to it's Medicaid cuts, it will be because millions of Americans are losing their shit over a provision in it that would sell of millions of acres of public land.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Joe Biden.

Biden didn't run as a solid progressive, he ran as a generic Democrat in a primary where everyone else was running to the left. The times Democrats have ran candidates that ran as solid progressives: McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis, they lost in landslides. The only time they have won with a candidate that ran as a strong progressive was FDR, and it took the Great Depression. Think about that, it took the Great Depression to get FDR elected as a progressive initially, and he is by far the most talented politician in American history.

 

[KingLeo]

Assuming of course that Biden was 'far left'.
He wasn't.

 

[Real blank]

Name a competitive election where a solidly progressive Democrat won. AOC could not win an election outside of a D+20 district. Money isn't the issue, often progressive candidates raise tons of money from the grassroots, the problem is that the country is a center right country, and to win majorities, you have to win in competitive districts.

If Bernie sanders had been the nominee in 2016 I think he could have potentially won.

 

[NatMorton]

The only ideologues are the morons who watch the rage bait on Fox News.


I don't care about drag queens. Its only conservatives who have ever made it an issue.

How does it feel to represent the wing of the Democratic party that, very likely, put Donald J. Trump back into the White House?

 

[j brown's body]

How does it feel to represent the wing of the Democratic party that, very likely, put Donald J. Trump back into the White House?

Perhaps voters prefer an authoritarian, even a terribly incompetent one.

 

[Lisa]

How does it feel to represent the wing of the Democratic party that, very likely, put Donald J. Trump back into the White House?

Donald won because stupid/gullible people believed his constant lies, mostly about immigration.

Kamala didnt run on transgender issues. She barely mentioned it.

 

[bomberfox]

People in states pass liberal referendum all the time and then elect and re-elect legislators that thwart them.

It's as if they don't trust themselves.

And the Dems do a terrible job advocating for these issues.

Gerrymandering.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Biden didn't run as a solid progressive, he ran as a generic Democrat in a primary where everyone else was running to the left. The times Democrats have ran candidates that ran as solid progressives: McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis, they lost in landslides. The only time they have won with a candidate that ran as a strong progressive was FDR, and it took the Great Depression. Think about that, it took the Great Depression to get FDR elected as a progressive initially, and he is by far the most talented politician in American history.

Biden ran on exactly the policies he said he would. You're wrong. if Dems run on policies that are popular with Americans, they tend to win. And Biden was easily the best president since Kennedy.

 

[bomberfox]

It depends on how people define left and right. It seems to me that Democrats go all in on unpopular, niche social issues but shy away from something like universal health care, which could have broad appeal

They kept failing on universal healthcare unfortunately.

 

[Revelation]

I think Democrats would go a long way by toning it down with some of their rather odious positions on social issues.

they should, but i don't think Holiness is in their genes.

Defending child mutilation in the name of trans ideology purity should be something they avoid.

well yeah, hardly attractive to Christians as DEAL BREAKER, regardless of how they couch the issue friends.

Putting fewer drag queens in front of kids would be another.

what is that, just more entertainment or whatever from the deepest parts of hell.

again: Deal Breaker

If they could get a bit more pragmatic on climate change it would help them in midwest swing states.

well climate change could be a lot more honest, but prolly not, they use it as a political football to shut down industry and push a green agenda.

for me, climate change really is a sign of the End Times and prolly more the fault of the Sun and cycles of nature than cows farting.

And they simply must get serious about immigration law enforcement.

they could, but prolly wont. they don't have much clue about National Security and letting in anyone who wants to walk across the border.

you would think after 911 they would have thought that thru, as open Borders are a bonanza for Terrorist sleeper cells.

well when WW three hits, all those cells get active and shut down the electric, gas, and food distribution. yep, uh oh we screwed up again........and again.

and yes we will lose about 68% of the population according to the Deagel report. they will say that Intelligence report is all fiction and it will never happen..........until it does.

Public Health, SS, Infra, and Civil Rights will remain strengths for them.

well kind of and sort of. they still pushed the toxic Vax, another deal breaker. basically the Blue Criminals are a Train Wreck no matter how you slice them. the Red Criminals not much better when they morphed from Maga into Dark Maga and then pretend not to notice that Train Wreck: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Dark+Maga+is+technocracy&ia=web


blessings friends, 2 weeks to go according to the Orange guy.

.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Biden ran on exactly the policies he said he would. You're wrong. if Dems run on policies that are popular with Americans, they tend to win. And Biden was easily the best president since Kennedy.

He ran on not being Trump and was half senile his last 2 years in office. Had he not dropped out of the race, he likely would have last in a landslide.

 

[The Brad Dad]

He ran on not being Trump and was half senile his last 2 years in office.

Well, at least we got two good years out of him. Trump started this term with dementia on top of being really stupid. And we're only six months in.

 

[bomberfox]

Again, they aren't running on it. It's a wedge issue created by the right. "Giving ground" means taking the wrong side and abandoning the group.



But people in right-wing circles do believe it, because they have been lied to and manipulated. Add up the rubes that believe various lies and it starts to add up.

Demonizing Democrats is definitely a thing in the South, and has been for years. It's all based on BS that they feed to the rubes - Dems are socialists, Dems want to tax you to death, Dems are snobby elites, Dems are corrupt, etc. Gaslighting their voters has been part of the Republican playbook for as long as I can remember.



Framing. Dems don't advocate for sex changes for minors; Dems advocate for doctors and families continuing to be able to make those tough decisions, and not the government. There is a small but not insignificant number of people affected by this stuff, and Dems are basically in favor of staying out of their business. The same goes for abortion - it is a health issue that should be between a woman and her doctor. The government has no business in their business.



The dishonest framing isn't the Dem's fault. That is squarely on the Republicans, who run on wedge issues and little else.



I think you are completely wrong here. If issues were framed differently (i.e. honestly), Republicans would lose a lot more. What are their core issues? Tax cuts for the rich, deregulation, get rid of immigrants. Simple enough, and not very popular positions with most. But toss the rubes a tiny, temporary tax cut, paint very useful regulatory bodies as useless wastes of money, and claim that immigrants are welfare-taking criminals, and those bad positions somehow become very popular positions among the rubes.



No, they are "reminding" their voters (by lying) that Democrats are evil baby killers. And it obviously works, especially in the south where the rubes are the rubiest. If they could win without lying, they would do so.

The voters that think dems ran only on social issues will always believe that no matter what because fox news makes it an entire scare then dems have to counter it.

 

[The Brad Dad]

The voters that think dems ran only on social issues will always believe that no matter what because fox news makes it an entire scare then dems have to counter it.

The Republicans created the anti trans movement. The response to that filthy vicious movement was labled as "too much". This is one hard reality Dems deal with in every election: America is largely filled with garbage people.

 

[Logophile]

Oh? Okay, you first - you stated that it was Democrats obsessed and shoving this down everyone's throat. Links. Ghead. And no, simply sending me a link of drag queen activity isn't it. Show me the legislation.

Oh no. You don't get to manipulate your way out of this. You declared a very probable untruth and tried to pawn it off as fact. So let's see a link. You claimed audiences were being busted for merely watching drag events. I actually tried to find a link supporting you claim, and shockingly, found this instead:

US — Franklin County, North Carolina. Following a two-year investigation, Brice Patric Ryschon Williams was charged with 25 counts Possession Of Child Pornography, a Class 2 felony, as well as 18 counts of Criminal Use Of A Communications Facility, Tri-State Alert reported on June 23, 2022. Williams is a drag queen who goes by the name Anastasia Diamond, and who has participated in drag events across Pennsylvania. In 2020, Williams won the LGBT Center of Central PA ‘Rising Star’ award.

Other arrests include Brette Blomme, a judge best known for his role as president and CEO of Cream City Foundation, a fiscal sponsor of the Milwaukee chapter of Drag Queen Story Hour and Albert Garza, a “Drag Queen Storytime” reader to children at the Houston Public Library. Nathan ‘Flowjob’ Mullen, also came under intense scrutiny in 2020 when explicit social media posts came to light shortly after the performer read stories to young school children in Scotland, as well as a tweet where Mullen joked about punching a child while hungover. Previously, when a local resident asked her library about undertaking criminal background and/or vulnerable records checks for drag queens performing for children (pointing to Albert Garza as a reason these checks were needed), the chief librarian suggested there was no need “as [drag queen performers] are under the supervision of event hosts, Continue reading Yet Another Drag Queen Arrested For Child Sexual Abuse Images | Women Are Human. Read more at: https://www.womenarehuman.com/yet-another-drag-queen-arrested-for-child-sexual-abuse-images/

So, spare me your bs. If police are busting in on drag shows it's far more likely that they're there to arrest people like to above

 

[The Brad Dad]

Oh no. You don't get to manipulate your way out of this. You declared a very probable untruth and tried to pawn it off as fact. So let's see a link. You claimed audiences were being busted for merely watching drag events. I actually tried to find a link supporting you claim, and shockingly, found this instead:

US — Franklin County, North Carolina. Following a two-year investigation, Brice Patric Ryschon Williams was charged with 25 counts Possession Of Child Pornography, a Class 2 felony, as well as 18 counts of Criminal Use Of A Communications Facility, Tri-State Alert reported on June 23, 2022. Williams is a drag queen who goes by the name Anastasia Diamond, and who has participated in drag events across Pennsylvania. In 2020, Williams won the LGBT Center of Central PA ‘Rising Star’ award.

Other arrests include Brette Blomme, a judge best known for his role as president and CEO of Cream City Foundation, a fiscal sponsor of the Milwaukee chapter of Drag Queen Story Hour and Albert Garza, a “Drag Queen Storytime” reader to children at the Houston Public Library. Nathan ‘Flowjob’ Mullen, also came under intense scrutiny in 2020 when explicit social media posts came to light shortly after the performer read stories to young school children in Scotland, as well as a tweet where Mullen joked about punching a child while hungover. Previously, when a local resident asked her library about undertaking criminal background and/or vulnerable records checks for drag queens performing for children (pointing to Albert Garza as a reason these checks were needed), the chief librarian suggested there was no need “as [drag queen performers] are under the supervision of event hosts, Continue reading Yet Another Drag Queen Arrested For Child Sexual Abuse Images | Women Are Human. Read more at: https://www.womenarehuman.com/yet-another-drag-queen-arrested-for-child-sexual-abuse-images/

So, spare me your bs. If police are busting in on drag shows it's far more likely that they're there to arrest people like to above

You just proved me right. You couldn't prove your assertion without going to some website named "womanarehuman.com" because it's you folks who are obsessed with this. Fact: the vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual men. Tell me what we need to do to address this crisis.

 

[Dans La Lune]

So it sounds like you are saying money in politics influences the outcome, and that your preferred candidates aren't good at raising it. Sounds like a good reason not to nominate them.

Wow, way to endorse political corruption.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Democrats need to return to liberalism.

The current authoritarian woke crap is anything BUT liberal

Letting people live how they want, without government interference, is definitionally liberal.

 

[gbg3]

The optics will be Democrats coming to the defense of Iran, and that's not going to play well.

At least on this forum, those optics grew very strong and incredibly fast! Even stronger than I would have expected would happen here, on a forum which consistently leans quite far left.

From time to time, the strength of the momentum and direction on a topic where I never would have predicted such a clear and blatant (but very tactically odd to my thinking) narrative choice - surprises me and makes me just want to observe for a while. To me, this bigger than I expected defense of Iran - feels sort of like the defense and denial of the open border. It will interest me to watch how this "plays" as this momentum continues to roll and grow. I think it certainly has huge potential to turn into heavily used election material, much like issue of the border certainly did in 2024.

 

[Dans La Lune]

My guess is democrats are going to move left, big time. I think they will nominate AOC, and she will run on universal healthcare, nationwide rent control, building public housing projects, capping ceo pay, government job guarantees, etc.

I think they are not going to move left. At all. In fact, I think they will move right. Look at the Dems (like Van Jones) chastising the left for criticizing Trump's illegal strike / war on Iran. The Dem party would rather lose to Trump and fascists than elect people who can win on a progressive platform.

 

[Gardener]

Letting people live how they want, without government interference, is definitionally liberal.

and that is not the Democrat party.

 

[Dans La Lune]

You claim to be a neo-liberal but the tone of your posts is pure MAGA. You're not fooling anyone by claiming to being a liberal because you are not a liberal.

Drag queens story hour is a non issue for democrats, if only the GOP would just let it go, but you would not dare criticize the GOP for their obsession with drag queens and additionally transgender people.

Psst: Neoliberals are conservatives. They don't care about anything other than their own interests, and are willing to go to war or sacrifice other groups to achieve those ends. They are similar to MAGA, but want to retain the aura and pretense of respectability. Scratch the surface.

 

[Dans La Lune]

and that is not the Democrat party.

It's certainly the progressive side of the party, not the conservative side.

Name an issue where they don't let people exist as the want. It's the Republicans who want to rule your life, get into your bedroom, up your anus, into your vagina, into your doctor's office, and criminalize free speech.

 

[gbg3]

Dems need to stay centrist.

They need better marketing as Trump painted the party very differant than it is.

Hmmm, I don't know. I think the Dem party is living up to and even surpassing the way the party was painted. The current reactions of the party more than show how very far from "centrist" they live.