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Should Confederate monuments be removed?

Should Confederate monuments be removed?

  • yes

    Votes: 56 52.8%
  • maybe

    Votes: 10 9.4%
  • maybe not

    Votes: 3 2.8%
  • no

    Votes: 32 30.2%
  • don't know

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • don't care

    Votes: 4 3.8%

  • Total voters
    106
but a lot of these are being destroyed....which is sad

that is my point....

if these men are good enough to be represented in the US CAPITOL BUILDING i think they should be okay to be represented in a park, or in front of a building....but that is my opinion

yours may vary

They don't belong on any public land including the U.S. Capitol. They were installed under false pretenses and do not represent the interests of the U.S.
 
You are looking at this very naively... most of the statues being removed are of straight up racist slave owning Generals and people that were literally fighting to keep slavery legal. Washington and Jefferson, besides being pretty benign slave owners... do some very important things with regards to human rights, etc.

...and it is not 'all of a sudden' people are angry... people have not liked these statues all of their lives probably. I know that I would not want to walk past them in a public taxpaying space.

Have you no sense of a historical perspective?

Let's not have a dumb argument. We will never know what those people thought about those Confederate statues that stood in their towns for 100 years. Who didn't like them? They were in a Southern town where people are still pi$$ed off about losing the Civil War. What's not to like about your dead Confederate generals who believed in the Lost Cause?
It's the weenie snowflakes who now woke up and saw movies like "Dances with Wolves", "Gone with the Wind", and "12 Years a Slave" who want to erase history because they don't like what happened over 100 years ago. That looks stupid to me.

I am so glad I am not going to college now and having to listen to college snowflakes demand that no one who does not agree with them should be allowed to come on their campus with different ideas.
 
Which is a good thing.

And a question: Maybe some day Trump in his infinite "wisdom" will decide to re-introduce slavery. How will his fans re-act then? I suppose they will think it a great idea - as they think everything a great idea whatever Trump does.

It's a good thing people do not take you seriously.
 
So it really is all about your hatred for Trump.
It doesn't matter you are ignorant of American history and what we have done for the entire world.
You want to make sure Trump is also implicated in the so-called "sins" of our fathers that need to be punished by getting rid of anything that relates to slavery and treason committed by zealous Confederate soldiers and politicians.
Why don't you just drop the pretense of pretending you are a Social Justice Warrior and say, "We're doing all of this mindless protesting because we simply hate Trump and want him to lose."?

The Confederacy has done nothing for “the world” and there is zero reason to celebrate people who explicitly went to war to try and protect slavery.

Trump and his cult have “implicated” themselves via their desperate defense of the Confederacy.

Are you done weeping over how mean you think everyone is to your Dear Leader?
 
The Confederacy has done nothing for “the world” and there is zero reason to celebrate people who explicitly went to war to try and protect slavery.

Trump and his cult have “implicated” themselves via their desperate defense of the Confederacy.

Are you done weeping over how mean you think everyone is to your Dear Leader?

Remember, it was your post that referenced Trump.
I merely inferred you were obsessed with Trump and had to bring him into the discussion.
How is Trump defending the Confederacy? By wanting to leave historical artifacts?
The White House was built by slave labor? SHould that be torn down?
 
Remember, it was your post that referenced Trump.
I merely inferred you were obsessed with Trump and had to bring him into the discussion.
How is Trump defending the Confederacy? By wanting to leave historical artifacts?
The White House was built by slave labor? SHould that be torn down?

The White House fought to protect slavery? Got a source for that?

By wailing about not wanting to change the name of bases named after a number of incompetent confederate commanders and mewling about statues created to celebrate the Confederacy and slavery coming down.....amongst others.

Donald Trump is the president of the United States who has tried to defend these statues. The folks who are defending them are overwhelmingly Trump supporters. Therefore, pointing out those facts is absolutely relevant.

Calling these statues “historical artifacts” is a bad joke.
 
Orwell 1984...

Right. That's why everywhere you look in the old colonies there are statues of King George still standing. Great point.

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And, you know, if, say, a Jewish community in Germany doesn't want a statue of Hitler, they're just wanting an era like Orwell's 1984. Statues of Hitler should be erected, again, so Jews and others in Germany and elsewhere don't forget about the Holocaust! And right in the center of the public square!
 
Are you saying the Democrats were morons for paying to erect those statues in the South?
Are they WOKE now?

They're Republicans now.

Have been Republicans since Nixon's "Southern Strategy" in the late 60s after the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act of LBJ, into the early 70s. Party politics is one's nominal politics while racism is the hard core ideology of the American Armband Right. It's the belief system that matters and it's why we have these statues to traitor racists erected by ideological traitor racists who defend 'em to the present day.
 
Right. That's why everywhere you look in the old colonies there are statues of King George still standing. Great point.

21statue5-superJumbo.jpg


And, you know, if, say, a Jewish community in Germany doesn't want a statue of Hitler, they're just wanting an era like Orwell's 1984. Statues of Hitler should be erected, again, so Jews and others in Germany and elsewhere don't forget about the Holocaust! And right in the center of the public square!

Trump's only statue will be an ass on a horse.

Or a horse pulling a golf cart with Trump smiling at its ass...that goofy smile of his.

Perhaps Trump in his Maralago outhouse when the lightning struck one night in November 2016.
 
tell me what really motivates this sort of anger 50-100 years after these monuments were put up. I believe that some of you all try to link Trump and those of us who voted for him to those Democrat confederates and think by destroying statutes to confederate military leaders, you are attacking Trump and his supporters.

If you'd been paying attention even a little bit, the efforts to remove Confederate statues, and the Confederate Losers and Traitors Flag, long predated Trump. The statue I'm most familiar with is one of KKK Grand Dragon and slave trader and CSA general NB Forrest that stood in a black neighborhood in Memphis. Can you tell us why a black community would want that guy in a position of honor in their neighborhood? Whatever you think, it took more than a decade to get rid of that statue in large part because the Tennessee legislature seeing this risk passed a law preventing local communities from having control over what stood in their public spaces if they were deemed "historical." Same thing with the SC confederate flag - that effort went back decades. Same thing for the statues in New Orleans, and others. So it's not all about Trump, which you'd know if you cared even a little about the subject.

But it's also true that the white nationalist/supremacist crowd and the defenders of the confederacy are in the Trump camp. Look at who is carrying the white supremacist Dixiecrats' official banner at political rallies. It's not Biden people or before that Obama's supporters....
 
If you'd been paying attention even a little bit, the efforts to remove Confederate statues, and the Confederate Losers and Traitors Flag, long predated Trump. The statue I'm most familiar with is one of KKK Grand Dragon and slave trader and CSA general NB Forrest that stood in a black neighborhood in Memphis. Can you tell us why a black community would want that guy in a position of honor in their neighborhood? Whatever you think, it took more than a decade to get rid of that statue in large part because the Tennessee legislature seeing this risk passed a law preventing local communities from having control over what stood in their public spaces if they were deemed "historical." Same thing with the SC confederate flag - that effort went back decades. Same thing for the statues in New Orleans, and others. So it's not all about Trump, which you'd know if you cared even a little about the subject.

But it's also true that the white nationalist/supremacist crowd and the defenders of the confederacy are in the Trump camp. Look at who is carrying the white supremacist Dixiecrats' official banner at political rallies. It's not Biden people or before that Obama's supporters....

Sounds like nonsense to me. Are the dems going to remove pictures of Robert Byrd? and some of the other virulently racist Democrat heroes?
 
How far does that go? tear down Monticello because Jefferson owned slaves? tear down the Washington Memorial? Rename Harrison Ohio because William Henry Harrison thrashed a native American Army at Tippecanoe?

It's really not a hard thing to understand and draw distinctions between. Sure, Jefferson was a slave owner, but we don't have statues to Jefferson BECAUSE he was a slave owner. He had a few other accomplishments as you know besides being like many others of his era and managing to own slaves.

The statues in question are there BECAUSE those guys fought for the CSA whose "corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth." So fighting for slavery, then for white supremacy in the form of Jim Crow is exactly why those guys were celebrated with monuments. The UDC that played a huge role in getting a big share of those monuments up were when the monuments went up unapologetic white supremacists, openly admired the KKK.

So what's a character flaw for guys like Jefferson, and Washington, and others is not for the people who erected the vast majority of those monuments - their support of slavery and white supremacy is WHY those men were were celebrated, and there's nothing else about their lives but their defense of the CSA and white supremacy to celebrate. Sometimes, like with a monument in New Orleans, the statue was to celebrate the literal lawless and violent overthrow of an elected government represented by many blacks with an all white government. That statue stood for over a century, a literal celebration of terrorism and violence committed to secure white supremacy in Louisiana.
 
Sounds like nonsense to me. Are the dems going to remove pictures of Robert Byrd? and some of the other virulently racist Democrat heroes?

What about that is nonsense? If you're a Jew would you want a statue of Hitler in your community in a position of honor? Obviously not, so why is this a hard thing for you to grasp?

BTW, did you learn BUTWHATABOUTism at your ivy league law school, or is that something you picked up later. It's a credit to your fine education that you resort to that weak BS when you otherwise don't have a reply. So, nice job.
 
Nathan Bedford Forrest in Memphis is nonsense? A statue to him is just as disgusting to placing a statue of Hitler in Temple Beth-El.
 
What about that is nonsense? If you're a Jew would you want a statue of Hitler in your community in a position of honor? Obviously not, so why is this a hard thing for you to grasp?

BTW, did you learn BUTWHATABOUTism at your ivy league law school, or is that something you picked up later. It's a credit to your fine education that you resort to that weak BS when you otherwise don't have a reply. So, nice job.

Why do you all try to compare hitler to say Robert Lee? I really don't care one way or the other, but I do laugh at the rather obvious artificial angst that is created over this when there are so many other things that are far more important than this bs. The fact is, some of those long dead confederate officers were loved by millions of people. Some were actual heroes of the US army and then joined the confederacy. To pretend hitler was seen in the same way in this country is intellectually fraudulent. every part of my family that was around back then served the north. Some of the family were people who helped fund Robert Shaw's 54th Mass. Regiment. A direct ancestor-Major Anderson-commanded Fort Sumter. But the agitation over a few statues by people whose politics I generally find annoying, is amusing silliness.
 
It's really not a hard thing to understand and draw distinctions between. Sure, Jefferson was a slave owner, but we don't have statues to Jefferson BECAUSE he was a slave owner. He had a few other accomplishments as you know besides being like many others of his era and managing to own slaves.

The statues in question are there BECAUSE those guys fought for the CSA whose "corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth." So fighting for slavery, then for white supremacy in the form of Jim Crow is exactly why those guys were celebrated with monuments. The UDC that played a huge role in getting a big share of those monuments up were when the monuments went up unapologetic white supremacists, openly admired the KKK.

So what's a character flaw for guys like Jefferson, and Washington, and others is not for the people who erected the vast majority of those monuments - their support of slavery and white supremacy is WHY those men were were celebrated, and there's nothing else about their lives but their defense of the CSA and white supremacy to celebrate. Sometimes, like with a monument in New Orleans, the statue was to celebrate the literal lawless and violent overthrow of an elected government represented by many blacks with an all white government. That statue stood for over a century, a literal celebration of terrorism and violence committed to secure white supremacy in Louisiana.

Are you trying to convince yourself that you should have moral superiority for bashing people who have been dead for over a century? Tell us what objective good comes from this? Are you trying to convince yourself that you don't harbor any racist thoughts?

What are the major problems facing black Americans today? the statutes of people who fought against the Union are not one of them
 
What about that is nonsense? If you're a Jew would you want a statue of Hitler in your community in a position of honor? Obviously not, so why is this a hard thing for you to grasp?

BTW, did you learn BUTWHATABOUTism at your ivy league law school, or is that something you picked up later. It's a credit to your fine education that you resort to that weak BS when you otherwise don't have a reply. So, nice job.

Yalies have no grades, only honors, pass or fail. And they have to try hard to fail. Such as that post. Imagine defending Nathan Bedford Forrest as a humanitarian all the while swearing an oath to defend the Constitution.
 
Are you saying the Democrats were morons for paying to erect those statues in the South?
Are they WOKE now?

Absolutely, and it can certainly be debated about how "woke" they are. It wasn't Republicans erecting monuments to traitors, or naming military bases after traitors. Only Democrats are that stupid. It was a further demonstration by the Democratic Party how much they truly hate the US, and always have since the inception of the party in 1828.
 
Long gone Confederate military and their supporters thank everyone for their support for keeping racism alive.
 
They're Republicans now.

Have been Republicans since Nixon's "Southern Strategy" in the late 60s after the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act of LBJ, into the early 70s. Party politics is one's nominal politics while racism is the hard core ideology of the American Armband Right. It's the belief system that matters and it's why we have these statues to traitor racists erected by ideological traitor racists who defend 'em to the present day.

That is an intentional lie.

You cannot name a single Dixiecrat who became a Republican, other than Strom Thurmond, because none of them ever became Republicans. The Democrat bigots remained Democrat bigots for their entire pathetic lives. That includes Dixiecrat Senator James Fulbright (Slick Willy's mentor) and Dixiecrat Senator Robert "KKK" Byrd (Hillary's mentor). The Democratic Party continues to be rife with bigots to this very day. Absolutely nothing has changed. Even your lies and denial of historical fact remains the same.
 
Yalies have no grades, only honors, pass or fail. And they have to try hard to fail. Such as that post. Imagine defending Nathan Bedford Forrest as a humanitarian all the while swearing an oath to defend the Constitution.

What college are you talking about? No one is defending the founder of the KKK. Some of us laugh at the feigned indignation more than a century later
 
Long gone Confederate military and their supporters thank everyone for their support for keeping racism alive.

how do statutes keep racism alive? do they have some sort of psychic powers over the weak minded?
 
Sounds like nonsense to me. Are the dems going to remove pictures of Robert Byrd? and some of the other virulently racist Democrat heroes?

As far as I am aware, and I double-checked, Sen. Byrd was not a traitor. He did not wage war against the US, nor did he lend aid and comfort to the enemies of the US. At least as best as I'm able to determine. While he was undoubtedly scum of the highest order, that on its own doesn't warrant removal of any of his photos or renaming anything after him. Traitors should never have been memorialized in the first place, but we're talking about the Democratic Party here.

Just like we eliminated every monument to King George before, during, and after the Revolution, and just like we renamed Fort Arnold to Fort Clinton after Gen. Benedict Arnold's treason, we should remove every monument to every traitor of the US and rename every military base that was ever named after a traitor. Why not name our military bases after those who earned the congressional Medal of Honor? It certainly seems more appropriate than naming our military bases after traitors. There have been 19 Americans who earned the congressional Medal of Honor on two separate occasions. That might be a good place to start.
 
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Why do you all try to compare hitler to say Robert Lee?

I do it when people feign ignorance about or are too stupid to understand why some people don't want monuments to slave traders, Klukkers, and assorted white supremacists in positions of honor in their communities, in 2020. Name me one thing you admire about e.g. Gen. Lee that does not involve his service in defense of slavery?


I really don't care one way or the other, but I do laugh at the rather obvious artificial angst that is created over this when there are so many other things that are far more important than this bs.

Right, if you don't care, why would anyone else? Makes sense. The world revolves around your concerns! And of course there are more important things, but there's a good chance there's a zoning dispute going on somewhere near you. Some people care a lot about those things, but it's not the most important thing in the world, so **** it, right? Anyone who shows up at a city council meeting is an idiot I guess if they don't want their neighborhood rezoned commercial or for high density housing!!

The fact is, some of those long dead confederate officers were loved by millions of people. Some were actual heroes of the US army and then joined the confederacy.

Sure, they were beloved in the white supremacist, Jim Crow south and by people like the UDC, proudly white supremacists and KKK lovers. And, yeah, some did have distinguished careers prior to their service in defense of slavery, but that's not why the UDC got their statues put up - those statues were reserved for civil war heroes of the CSA and the white supremacists honored them for THOSE deeds.

To pretend hitler was seen in the same way in this country is intellectually fraudulent.

You've got a good education so you know the term "analogy." It might be true that you as a white person don't mind monuments to slavers and Klukkers because your distinguished family didn't have their kids sold off, or beaten, or raped, and I'm quite sure your family didn't suffer a another century of oppression with their rights stripped because they were black - that's it. But maybe others see things a little differently from where they sit than someone like you sees, without that more than 200 years of state sponsored oppression.

every part of my family that was around back then served the north. Some of the family were people who helped fund Robert Shaw's 54th Mass. Regiment. A direct ancestor-Major Anderson-commanded Fort Sumter. But the agitation over a few statues by people whose politics I generally find annoying, is amusing silliness.

I don't care about your family. It's you talking here. And your concern about gun rights is amusing silliness to me, and I own a couple dozen guns. Some people care deeply about football, or their golf game. :shrug:
 
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