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Should Compulsory Schooling be Abolished?

Agnapostate

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I believe that compulsory schooling is a destroyer of individual freedom, and is essentially a one-size-fits-all factory line that functions as a propaganda service. I believe that Americans for a Society Free from Age Restrictions (ASFAR), an organization that I am a member of, makes compelling and relevant points about the tyranny of compulsory schooling.


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It is my duty as a consistent libertarian to object to and oppose such tyranny, and as a social and political analyst, I would be interested in knowing your opinions of such a proposal.
 
A 2-post OP? WTF? Are you related to FutureIncoming? I'm not sifting through all that.

No, compulsory attendance should remain, though I would argue for privatization.
 
A 2-post OP? WTF? Are you related to FutureIncoming? I'm not sifting through all that.

No, compulsory attendance should remain, though I would argue for privatization.

Character limit. Why would you argue in favor of compulsory attendance, given that it is a subversion of individual liberty?
 
Compulsory education shifts the nation's production possibility frontier outwards, ensuring that we all benefit. This becomes even more important with international trade and the consequences of capital mobility. As a nation's average education levels fall behind, you can expect capital flight and a shift in production towards more inferior product

We can also factor in myopia, where youngsters are incapable of making the long term decisions required for lifetime income maximisation
 

The Tyranny Of Compulsory Schooling - Anti-School Articles
 
So let me see if I understand this correctly.

You're a member of an organisation that fights for the rights of young people, but you would support a law that would make basic academic education optional?

Wow. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

It's hard enough to get kids to take their education seriously when it's compulsory, I can't imagine the number of kids who would totally give up on the idea if they actually had a choice in the matter.

Do you realize the impact a severely uneducated youth would have on your country? I hope you're ready to open your borders up to all manner of qualified immigrants to replace the human ressources void such a genius plan would generate.

No seriously, great idea! The rest of the world's youth would benefit immensely from this, so I guess that's something at least.
 

You are clearly unfamiliar with the manner of rights my organization prescribes. This is our Declaration of Principles.

 
While as a Libritarian I agree with Agnapostates basic idea of compolsory, I as a somewhat self thinking person see that kids with no education is foolish. I guess if you wanted to take the state out of it, you would still have to have home schooling, parents forcing there children to go to school. (Can't really imagine parents saying no to this one but I am sure I would be suprised) I guess it is just the moral of the whole thing of the government saying "you have to do it" as opposed to the parents having the ability to tell there kids. I can kind of see it.
 
I suppose you're a "libertarian" capitalist as opposed to a libertarian socialist, because a libertarian socialist would recognize the hideousness of tyranny on all levels, whether governmental or private.
 
I suppose you're a "libertarian" capitalist as opposed to a libertarian socialist, because a libertarian socialist would recognize the hideousness of tyranny on all levels, whether governmental or private.

I am a Civil Libritarian with slight Economic leanings to the left. So in a nut shell yes you would be correct about me.
 
You are clearly unfamiliar with the manner of rights my organization prescribes. This is our Declaration of Principles.

Oh, but I am. I read the whole thing earlier, which reminded me yet again why I'm no longer such a strict Libertarian.

I can adress it point by point if you like, but most of it deserves its own thread.

What would be nice is if you would adress my point. How is an undereducated population going to compete in today's increasingly small world? How will it affect illiteracy levels in your country? What will be the impact on the economy and the immigration laws?

Or you can keep pretending that kids have the same capacity to make level-headed, life changing decisions as grown adults do.
 
I am a Civil Libritarian with slight Economic leanings to the left. So in a nut shell yes you would be correct about me.

But please make no mistake; while I would be forcing my children to go to school I would expect them to challenge my authority. While I want them to know the importance of challenging so called authority I also want my children to have the best chances of a successful life, however they may define success, but no government official or party member has ever gained there position with no education. It is important for my children to have an education that they may, if they so choose, be able to further true American ideals of Libritarianism.
 

It's amusing that you thought that I would "struggle" with this.

If you were solely concerned with economic benefits, then what is your objection to making post-secondary education mandatory also? It's certainly arguable that we need a population with specialized education also.

As for your claim about youngsters' "underdeveloped mental capacities," has the thought ever occured to you that they could be caused by the mass conformity encouraged by compulsory schooling, rather than alleviated by it? I thought not.
 
It's amusing that you thought that I would "struggle" with this.
But you have...

If you were solely concerned with economic benefits, then what is your objection to making post-secondary education mandatory also?
Tertiary education serves two purposes: human capital investment and screening. The latter tells us how education is used to distinguish between workers. First, we have signalling problems created by asymmetric information (i.e. those with ability need to acquire a relatively scarce certificate to highlight their worth). Second, we have the need for employers to find a mechanism to justify hierarchy (e.g. where workers enter in the 'internal labour market'.

These features ensure that tertiary education stands out such that blanket certification would lead to increased labour market costs. Primary and secondary education is quite distinct: its about increasing the average quality of the worker's human capital. It is vital for understanding economic success.

As for your claim about youngsters' "underdeveloped mental capacities," has the thought ever occured to you that they could be caused by the mass conformity encouraged by compulsory schooling, rather than alleviated by it? I thought not.
Myopia is a feature of our bounded rationality. You may want to construct conspiracy theory, but you're only going to make me chuckle. You really shouldn't be so worried about human nature.
 
But you have...

Again...amusing.


While it's true that that's a trait of our current economic system and wider society, as was noted by the position paper that I posted, you are wrong in assuming that it is a socially beneficial aspect of it. There is no legitimate mechanism that can justify hierarchy in an economic system, nor market competitition as a whole, for that matter.


And again, neither form of certification has the slightest effect on the actual production value of the worker. Unfortunately enough, you seem to be quite an adamant supporter of wage labor without sufficiently noting its negative side effects.

Myopia is a feature of our bounded rationality. You may want to construct conspiracy theory, but you're only going to make me chuckle. You really shouldn't be so worried about human nature.

Labeling opposing viewpoints "conspiracy theory" is a poor escape mechanism, although it is understandable that one who lacked superior arguments would resort to it. My primary objection was that the school system had been specifically designed to create the exact sort of mass conformity that was a staple of Prussian society that later made it vulnerable to the trappings of National Socialism.

Your view of "human nature" is evidently in need of some modification.
 
There is no legitimate mechanism that can justify hierarchy in an economic system, nor market competitition as a whole, for that matter.
You're going to have to end capitalism then (get waving your little red flag!). Hierarchy is required for profit maximisation and tertiary education is the cheapest means to support it.

And again, neither form of certification has the slightest effect on the actual production value of the worker.
That primary and secondary education provide basic skills that then increase the productivity of the workforce cannot be denied. I know its inconvenient for your rights rant, but the nature of the economic benefits are immense. Indeed, its very difficult to refer to a country's economic failures without referring to its education system (e.g. to remove a long tail of low skills, features such as the benefits of comprehensive education have to be considered)

Labeling opposing viewpoints "conspiracy theory" is a poor escape mechanism, although it is understandable that one who lacked superior arguments would resort to it.
You gave the standard conspiracy theory guff because you have no counterargument to the consequences of bounded rationality. Myopia, for instance, is a basic requirement in modeling of youth behaviour (such as the modeling of addictive substance consumption and the failure of standard information systems to ensure rational behaviour).
 

I think Agnapostate is referring to Prussian originated compulsory education to be obsolete in an age where anonymous communication is available to all. This web site is a good example of it, because this very concept is being employed in many colleges and universities. In terms of distance education, message boards have given it a leap forward so to say.
 
I am curious as to why abolishing it is the answer instead of reform
 
Character limit.
Respect it and contain your OP to a single post, if you please. There's no need to quote all that. A simple outline or highlight with a link will due.

Why would you argue in favor of compulsory attendance, given that it is a subversion of individual liberty?

I like how you pre-frame the premise of my answer, forcing me to take the time to reframe the premise of my answer.

**** it, you don't want an actual discussion then I won't give you one.

I support compulsory attendance because I stand firmly against individual liberty in all its forms. Is that satisfactory for you? I'm glad it is.
 
I disagree completely with abolishing compulsory schooling. It is really important for children to have an education and, for the most part, they are generally not able to always determine what is good for them or not. I do think that it should be reformed, and offer more options for students who could benefit from developing certain areas in which they show a promising future, such as math, science, writing, arts, etc. In many places, there are schools that do specialize their teaching, but I think more of them, especially in more populated, poorer areas and more funding and scholarships should be available.

I do agree with changing some age restriction rules/laws. However, most should remain just for the fact that it is easier to teach and influence the average child or teenager than it is the average adult due to the lack of life experience and not all correct behaviors are taught by someone's parents.

Also, not every child develops at the same rate as others. Some children may be more mature than some (in a few cases even most) adults at about age 12, but the vast majority still have a long way to go before they learn what being responsible means and the consequences of their actions.

I don't agree in the drinking/gambling age laws. The other ones are, for the most part fair. I do believe in exceptions based on circumstances though.
 
A 2-post OP? WTF? Are you related to FutureIncoming? I'm not sifting through all that.

No, compulsory attendance should remain, though I would argue for privatization.

That was funny.
 
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