Should Compulsory Schooling be Abolished?

[veganshawn]

I have a slant?
I don't much care for extremists, be they dems, republicans, libertarians, or whatever you are. Certainly more good is accomplished by mutual cooperation than by running off and living in your own special little world. If that is what you are doing, why do you care about the world the rest of us live in? and smart ass remarks are often necessary when responding to dumb ass posts...:2wave:

If you want to ask me a question ask them with out assumptions from the get go and you will get a better response.

 

[Tucker Case]

A vegan anarchist?

Is that a synonym for "food"?

 

[veganshawn]

A vegan anarchist?

Is that a synonym for "food"?

I don't get this, is it a attempt at a joke?

 

[Tucker Case]

I don't get this, is it a attempt at a joke?

No. I'm just wondering if anarchy actually happened would a vegan anarchist be served rare or well-done?

 

[UtahBill]

If you want to ask me a question ask them with out assumptions from the get go and you will get a better response.

so no answers to my questions? if only 5% of your teachers were good, that just begs a lot of other questions. Like where you went to school, what was so bad about the other 95%, etc.? Basically your situation sound too bad to be true...so don't be surprised if you get little sympathy. Most of us will think you are just some malcontent who is making things up in your own head...

 

[Bodi]

No I want real education that helps all kids, not the way it is now, we are all individuals, and we can't all be taught the same, for far to long the school systems has tried to force all kids to learn the exact same way and it is not fair to kids or society when those who the system failed turn out to be criminals or the President of the USA in Bush's case.

Differentiated instruction ... read up on it and educate yourself a bit.

 

[Bodi]

These two exhanges are funny, and need to be displayed in full view!

Originally Posted by UtahBill
(to a poster other than veganshawn) so what is your take on age of consent, pedophilia, etc.?

Originally Posted by veganshawn
This is a disgusting example and you should be ashamed for being it up.

Originally Posted by UtahBill
go read his link, it is broughtup there.....my point is that there may be ulterior motives for the OP....

And nothing else from veganshawn... who got completely and utterly owned, thus deciding the best course of action is to ignore this idiotic oversight and move on to another stupid assertion. :lol:

Originally Posted by veganshawn
I don't think it should be abolished, I think it should be a choice. My oldest is home schooled and has also attended a "free school" (a anarchist school). She doesn't do well in regular school and excels at home. It would be unfair to force kids into school if they don't do well in the system as it is, I know I was a victim of public schooling and horrible teaching.

First, this guy completely misunderstands what "compulsary schooling" implies, thus displaying were the responsibility for his horrible educational experience lies...

Originally Posted by UtahBill
ALL of your teachers were horrible? SOME of them? Most of them?
Does your oldest excel at home based on real academics, or your opinion of what is academics? Does she get tested outside of the home to make sure that the home schooling is adequate?
Anarchists? do we need more of those?

Simple questions... to be honest. Nothing to get a person's panties all twisted into knots over and certainly nothing in there that is assumption oriented or slanted towards one position or another.

Originally Posted by veganshawn
Does it matter to you? If so why, obviously you have a slant and no matter what I say is going to be responded to with some smart ass comment. And yes we need more Anarchists, the last true freedom fighters left in our world

Again... simple question in order to find out more information. Somebody doesn't understand one of the basic principles of communication, and that is to ask questions when unclear in order to avoid misunderstandings that are based off of assumptions. We see later that he is victim to his own paranoia, assuming that the otehr person is assuming! :rofl

Originally Posted by UtahBill
I have a slant?
I don't much care for extremists, be they dems, republicans, libertarians, or whatever you are. Certainly more good is accomplished by mutual cooperation than by running off and living in your own special little world. If that is what you are doing, why do you care about the world the rest of us live in? and smart ass remarks are often necessary when responding to dumb ass posts...

Responding to this vegan guy's original ignorant statement, but we see that veganshawn clearly does not get this by his next response... this is classic! :lol:

Originally Posted by veganshawn
If you want to ask me a question ask them with out assumptions from the get go and you will get a better response.

Clearly lost. No idea that he has talked himself into a hypocritical and contradictory circle... so we see Bill call him one it and give even MORE reasoning to his initial questions! :rofl

Originally Posted by UtahBill
so no answers to my questions? if only 5% of your teachers were good, that just begs a lot of other questions. Like where you went to school, what was so bad about the other 95%, etc.? Basically your situation sound too bad to be true...so don't be surprised if you get little sympathy. Most of us will think you are just some malcontent who is making things up in your own head...

I, personally, think that veganspawn has no idea what he is trying to say.
Apparently some students have ****ty school experiences due to their own ineptitude... and what do they do? They blame everybody else. Drunk teachers? What inbred school did this guy go to... seriously?! :rofl

Most teachers, at least today, are extremely well trained.

There is nothing wrong with Public Schools.
The teachers that teach there, for the most part, are great. Professional and very well educated.

The issue lies with student motivation and lack of parental involvement.

Have you researched this issue or is this just a knee jerk reaction?

Regarding quality of teachers:

Prospective teachers who took state teacher licensing exams from 2002 to 2005 scored higher on SATs in high school and earned higher grades in college than their counterparts who took the exams in the mid-1990s, the report said.

The average SAT verbal scores of prospective teachers passing the Praxis tests to teach English, science, social studies, math and art from 2002 to 2005 were higher than those of prospective teachers in the mid-1990s — and were also higher than the average SAT scores for all college graduates, the report said.

The percentage of candidates reporting a 3.5 GPA or higher rose from 27% to 40%

Teacher qualifications improve in the past decade - USATODAY.com

The college grades of prospective teachers has also improved. About 40 percent of the prospective teachers taking the licensing tests from 2002 to 2005 had a grade point average of 3.5 or higher on the traditional 4-point scale during college, up from 26 percent in the 1990s, the report said.

“By this measure, we are witnessing a dramatic improvement in the quality of the teacher pool,” the report said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/education/12teachers.html?_r=1&ref=education&oref=slogin

3.5 or higher?

•Federal Title II reporting rules, which in 1998 required states and teachers' colleges to report Praxis pass rates.

• No Child Left Behind, which in 2002 forced states to expand teacher licensing testing, just as they were setting higher standards, such as minimum GPA requirements, for teacher education candidates.

ETS: Educational Testing Service ? Home

 

[veganshawn]

Bodhisattva - Yeah I am so owned, boo hoo, thanks for wasting your time. :2razz:

 

[UtahBill]

Bodhisattva - Yeah I am so owned, boo hoo, thanks for wasting your time. :2razz:

your profile says you are a metal head skateboarder who wants to overthrow the state. What do you do for income to support your kid in school? How old are you? you have a kid in school and you are still skateboarding? Do you ever wear a helmet?

 

[Bodi]

Bodhisattva - Yeah I am so owned, boo hoo, thanks for wasting your time. :2razz:

So not only did you portray yourself to have low character and low comprehension skills, you are now ignoring evidence sited that states the quality of teachers and differentiation is better than you understand? Interesting...

Note to self: ignore veganshawn's blather and treat him like a toy.

 

[UtahBill]

So not only did you portray yourself to have low character and low comprehension skills, you are now ignoring evidence sited that states the quality of teachers and differentiation is better than you understand? Interesting...

Note to self: ignore veganshawn's blather and treat him like a toy.

He (she?) serves a useful purpose...
If you can't be a good example, at least be a horrible warning.

I use to point out life's losers to my kids and warn them that they, too, could end up a fool, if they decide to drop out of school.
Blaming others for our own foolishness is so common that it should have a term for it, but it escapes me at the moment.

 

[veganshawn]

Never mind waste of time.

 

[UtahBill]

Never mind waste of time.

no, never a waste of time to DISCUSS, but if all you can do is rant, and then pout when you don't get your way, THAT is a waste of time. The BEST reason to be here in DP is to learn, not to spout BS that the educated here instantly recognize as BS, and then tell you it is BS.....
Think of debating here as going to school...:lol:
(Irony alert)

 

[Bodi]

Never mind waste of time.

Differentiated instruction...

Guess you don't want to educate yourself then?
Just like school... huh?
I can see that it was really the teachers that are to blame... it is obviously the teachers! :rofl

 

[UtahBill]

Differentiated instruction...

Guess you don't want to educate yourself then?
Just like school... huh?
I can see that it was really the teachers that are to blame... it is obviously the teachers! :rofl

Damn the teachers....why do they all insist on spending 4 or more years in college just to come in and corrupt our children's minds with facts and figures, knowledge and information?
The teachers put all that effort into getting a degree when all they really have to do is get themselves brain injured smoking dope down at the local skate board park....everybody knows that those kids on wheels know more than educated adults...
And just to show you how truly stupid teachers really are, they do it for paltry pay....OK, that last part actually does make me wonder.:shock:

 

[veganshawn]

I had bad experiences with a lot of my teachers, luckily for me I discovered other things that made me happy and though those was able to educate myself. Mock it all you want, it is my experiences. For some kids school works, for some they don't.

 

[UtahBill]

I had bad experiences with a lot of my teachers, luckily for me I discovered other things that made me happy and though those was able to educate myself. Mock it all you want, it is my experiences. For some kids school works, for some they don't.

actually, public schools work well for MOST kids, and we aren't going to change it drastically for SOME kids.
I have said that curriculum changes are needed to match today's needs, instead of the needs of the 50s and 60s, but those changes are small, not so large that we need a new system.

 

[veganshawn]

actually, public schools work well for MOST kids, and we aren't going to change it drastically for SOME kids.
I have said that curriculum changes are needed to match today's needs, instead of the needs of the 50s and 60s, but those changes are small, not so large that we need a new system.

The school system failed me and that was the 70's and 80's. It has gone downhill since.

 

[Bodi]

The school system failed me and that was the 70's and 80's. It has gone downhill since.

It has gone uphill since. Schooling is more professional and more moderated than ever before. Teachers are better qualified and keep up to date with better training and PD than ever before. You can have your opinions... as ignorant as they are.

Originally Posted by veganshawn
I had bad experiences with a lot of my teachers, luckily for me I discovered other things that made me happy and though those was able to educate myself. Mock it all you want, it is my experiences. For some kids school works, for some they don't.

Good for you... seriously. I am not mocking your education, I am trying to get you to own up to your comments, like the insultive one to Utah, and your opinions, which seem to be damning generalizations that are based off of your indicidual experience only, and further, you ignore evidence that is posted to you regarding the contrary. All good, just don't expect people to take your opinions too seriously then.

 

[UtahBill]

The school system failed me and that was the 70's and 80's. It has gone downhill since.

you can read, you can write, I assume you are employed and can balance your checkbook. So HOW did public school fail you? What do you EXPECT from public school? You are long on charges and short on evidence. If you want sympathy, forget it. Lots of people got shortchanged by the system, but most of the time the system is only partly to blame. The parents, and the child are to blame partially in almost all cases. I suppose you are one of the exceptions, according to you, but we won't believe it without some information supporting your charges....

let me add this to the mix....my public school failed me because the school counselor never once called me in to ask what was wrong and why someone as smart as I am was not likely to graduate.
I compensated for public school failing me by joining the Navy, and being smart, I got some good schools out of my time serving Uncle Sam.
See, one door closes, another opens. Maybe I was lucky that we had a draft back then which motivated me to join the Navy instead of ending up carrying a rifle in vietnam.

 

[1069]

I had bad experiences with a lot of my teachers, luckily for me I discovered other things that made me happy and though those was able to educate myself. Mock it all you want, it is my experiences. For some kids school works, for some they don't.

That's been my experience. I feel better educated than most.
The world is my classroom.

 

[UtahBill]

That's been my experience. I feel better educated than most.
The world is my classroom.

As much as I think I know at any given moment, I find that there is so much more to learn. The various educational channels and shows on TV are very informative, and bring real knowledge and thinking to what I thought I learned way back then....likewise this forum...it is very educational..

 

[Bodi]

you can read, you can write, I assume you are employed and can balance your checkbook. So HOW did public school fail you? What do you EXPECT from public school? You are long on charges and short on evidence. If you want sympathy, forget it. Lots of people got shortchanged by the system, but most of the time the system is only partly to blame. The parents, and the child are to blame partially in almost all cases. I suppose you are one of the exceptions, according to you, but we won't believe it without some information supporting your charges....

let me add this to the mix....my public school failed me because the school counselor never once called me in to ask what was wrong and why someone as smart as I am was not likely to graduate.
I compensated for public school failing me by joining the Navy, and being smart, I got some good schools out of my time serving Uncle Sam.
See, one door closes, another opens. Maybe I was lucky that we had a draft back then which motivated me to join the Navy instead of ending up carrying a rifle in vietnam.

Me too. I was never called into the counselor and I ended up going from over a 4.0 to a low 3.
I was way into sports and surfing...
Missed being able to go to top notch universities wikth all of my honors friends and went to a JC, then A State University getting a couple of degrees and a Masters. I figured it out, but school, I thought, sucked. I later realized that I learned a lot though... it was not the content of what was taught, but rather the strategies used to analyze information, derive at conclusions based off of evidence, research, historical interpretation, etc that I learned.

School is like life, it is what you make it.

 

[UtahBill]

Me too. I was never called into the counselor and I ended up going from over a 4.0 to a low 3.
I was way into sports and surfing...
Missed being able to go to top notch universities wikth all of my honors friends and went to a JC, then A State University getting a couple of degrees and a Masters. I figured it out, but school, I thought, sucked. I later realized that I learned a lot though... it was not the content of what was taught, but rather the strategies used to analyze information, derive at conclusions based off of evidence, research, historical interpretation, etc that I learned.

School is like life, it is what you make it.

In many ways, school can suck, but it is still way ahead of whatever is in second place....
Education is the only LIKELY way of moving from poor to well off. Like they say, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance and see if that works for you....
at least ignorance doesn't cost anything up front. It is later on in life that it gets really expensive....
:lol: