Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

radcen · Nov 22, 2013

Smeagol said:
I think tobacco should be classified as a harmful drug. In a perfect world I'd support outlawing it altogether. However, due to centuries of it being legal and being a realist I know that's not happening any time soon.

- No smoking in public including outdoors and establishments that are open to the public.
- No smoking in private if children are present.
- No smoking in private in inclosed structures where children will be present within ???? unless there is code certified ventilation apparatus installed.
- Smoking allowed in private homes, outdoors on private land, in private clubs not open to the public and in private vehicles (cars, boats, RVs etc.); provided second-hand smoke protections for children as described above are followed.

The local community college here forbids smoking in one's own private vehicle while driving on campus. Even if alone and even if the windows are up. Is that going too far?

Oozlefinch · Nov 22, 2013

Carjosse said:
Well cigarette smoke contains many dangerous chemicals where as marijuana does not.

Excuse me as I call "complete bull****" on that. It simply has not been researched as much, for obvious reasons. But it is there.

Here's another reason to "keep off the grass." Researchers in Canada report that marijuana smoke contains significantly higher levels of several toxic compounds -- including ammonia and hydrogen cyanide -- than tobacco smoke and may therefore pose similar health risks.

David Moir and colleagues note that researchers have conducted extensive studies on the chemical composition of tobacco smoke, which contains a host of toxic substances, including about 50 that can cause cancer. However, there has been relatively little research on the chemical composition of marijuana smoke.

In this new study, researchers compared marijuana smoke to tobacco smoke, using smoking machines to simulate the smoking habits of users. The scientists found that ammonia levels were 20 times higher in the marijuana smoke than in the tobacco smoke, while hydrogen cyanide, nitric oxide and certain aromatic amines occurred at levels 3-5 times higher in the marijuana smoke, they say. The finding is "important information for public health and communication of the risk related to exposure to such materials," say the researchers.

Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke

Marijuana smoke contains over 4000 identified chemicals, including more than 50 that are known to cause cancer (Moir et al., 2008). It contains a similar range of harmful chemicals to that of tobacco smoke (including irritants and carcinogens) (Hoffmann et al, 1975). As inhaled smoke comes into contact with airway and lung before being absorbed into the bloodstream, it is likely to affect the respiratory system (Novotny et al, 1982).

Learn About Marijuana: Factsheets: Respiratory Effects of Marijuana

I can go on and on, but don't even try that "but it is harmless" bull****. Pot is known to be higher in tar, and a great many chemicals then tobacco is. So try doing some research instead of just repeating fluffy clouds and rainbows.

ttwtt78640 · Nov 22, 2013

Oozlefinch said:
What about letting people decide for themselves?

Look, nobody here is really saying that all business should allow smoking, simply allow a businesses to do so if they choose to.

Or does personal choice mean that little to you?

It seems that, for many, personal choice is limited to things that they like. SSM proponents are often for bans/restrictions for smoking and gun rights. Abortion ban folks are often pro gun. Ironies abound when true individual freedom is concerned.

specklebang · Nov 22, 2013

iguanaman said:
You do know that they are just protecting their casinos and smokers who lose a lot of money there. Can you imagine how much money they would lose if smoking was banned in the casinos?

Umm. Are we agreeing or disagreeing? What we're protecting is our single major industry. To you non-NV folks, Casinos are just another revenue format. To us, its life and death. Gambling, drinking, boobies and smoking are part of the same net function.

They are already backing off the restaurant laws and allowing smoking in some cases. Nobody likes to see their business lost.

Now, do I feel non-smokers have the right to a smoke-free meal? Yes. Should there be smoke free gaming areas in the Casino? Yes. That's good business practice.

Smeagol · Nov 22, 2013

Oozlefinch said:
What about letting people decide for themselves?

Look, nobody here is really saying that all business should allow smoking, simply allow a businesses to do so if they choose to.

Or does personal choice mean that little to you?

I'm okay with structuring a restaurant as a private club that allows smoking. It would be a members only facility that does not allow children. Regular restaurants are considered public accommodations, subject to a host of regulation in consideration of the fact that the general public accesses them. Even though its privately owned, the nature of their community-wide accessibility places them in a type of private/public facility role.

Smeagol · Nov 22, 2013

radcen said:
The local community college here forbids smoking in one's own private vehicle while driving on campus. Even if alone and even if the windows are up. Is that going too far?

I think so.

Oozlefinch · Nov 22, 2013

Smeagol said:
I'm okay with structuring a restaurant as a private club that allows smoking. It would be a members only facility that does not allow children. Regular restaurants are considered public accommodations, subject to a host of regulation in consideration of the fact that the general public accesses them. Even though its privately owned, the nature of their community-wide accessibility places them in a type of private/public facility role.

And once again, you fail to see the entire problem. Why must it be a private club? And what is a "private club"?

And does this even work for most states?

For example, in California this would not work at all. In this state, only private clubs where the staff is entirely volunteer and makes no money other then tips can smoking be allowed.

Most states do in fact even ban smoking in private clubs. The few loopholes tend to be where the staff is unpaid volunteers for a non-profit club (like VFW and American Legion). But this is actually an exception, not the norm.

So are you willing to allow all such bans on private clubs to be removed so smoking would be allowed there?

EXEMPTIONS FROM SMOKING BANS FOR PRIVATE CLUBS

Ikari · Nov 22, 2013

Smeagol said:
Especially if their choices give other people cancer or create medical expenses other people will be expected to share. (facetiously speaking)

That's why cigarettes are taxed at over 100%.

Ikari · Nov 22, 2013

Smeagol said:
Cars provide a vital service mankind now depends upon. Fluoride is a by product of aluminum manufacturing if I'm not mistaken, an important material. Plus science has figured out a dental health benefit for it. Tobacco does nothing except give its addicts their latest fix.

BTW: another topic but I support significantly reducing car exhaust with aggressive development of electric cars. I good friend of mine got one on lease this year and loves it. $250 a month, under $30 a month in electricity and no gas, no oil changes.

So he has a coal powered car.

iguanaman · Nov 22, 2013

cpgrad08 said:
There should be no government regulations on smoking in a restaurant and bars. It should be on the owner of the place to determine if the establishment is smoking or non-smoking.

And it is every customers right to sue the owner for exposing them to cancer causing substances.

Oozlefinch · Nov 22, 2013

iguanaman said:
And it is every customers right to sue the owner for exposing them to cancer causing substances.

Welcome to California, where even Starbucks has "Cancer Warning Signs", because they sell things "proven to cause cancer".

So let's just stop selling everything, because anything in excess can cause cancer.

And yes, sugar has been shown to cause cancer.

Excess sugar linked to cancer

Welcome to the United States of Mommy.

Smeagol · Nov 22, 2013

Ikari said:
So he has a coal powered car.

Most people with asthma attacks never encounter coal at power stations as they are faaaaar away from most of the public. I don't ever recall seeing coal except in pictures and maybe watching trains go by. I've never seen any actually burning.

radcen · Nov 22, 2013

iguanaman said:
And it is every customers right to sue the owner for exposing them to cancer causing substances.

The owner forced them to come in?

Rocketman · Nov 22, 2013

Phil_Osophy said:
The same reason we started freeing slaves. Its the right thing to do

so you think business owners should be able to run their business as they see fit hiring who they want and serving who they want?

Ikari · Nov 22, 2013

Smeagol said:
Most people with asthma attacks never encounter coal at power stations as they are faaaaar away from most of the public. I don't ever recall seeing coal except in pictures and maybe watching trains go by. I've never seen any actually burning.

It's not the cleanest form of energy and causes a certain amount of global pollution, more so than gas. But till we invest in nuclear energy, we'll have to keep our dirty energy.

clownboy · Nov 22, 2013

Smeagol said:
Most people with asthma attacks never encounter coal at power stations as they are faaaaar away from most of the public. I don't ever recall seeing coal except in pictures and maybe watching trains go by. I've never seen any actually burning.

Coal power still accounts for 42% of the electricity in the US.

If you live out in the Western states you're far less likely to ever see a coal plant.

cpgrad08 · Nov 22, 2013

iguanaman said:
And it is every customers right to sue the owner for exposing them to cancer causing substances.

N its not their right since they aren't being force to enter the shop. They don't like smoking they can go somewhere else.

cpgrad08 · Nov 22, 2013

iguanaman said:
And it is every customers right to sue the owner for exposing them to cancer causing substances.

So we should sue gas stations then since gas and gas vapors can cause cancer.

Muhammed · Nov 22, 2013

clownboy said:
Coal power still accounts for 42% of the electricity in the US.

If you live out in the Western states you're far less likely to ever see a coal plant.

I liked your post because it made me laugh.

And guess what state has the cities with the worst air pollution? Take a guess. I'll give you some hints, it's not in the coal belt. It's one of those yellow colored states from your img far west that starts with a "C". And it's not Colorado.

clownboy · Nov 22, 2013

Muhammed said:
I liked your post because it made me laugh.

And what state has the worst air pollution? Take a guess. I'll give you a hint, it's not in the coal belt. It's one of those yellow colored states far west.

California has all but one the cities with the record topping list in both short and long term air pollution. So I'd guess, California.

Phil_Osophy · Nov 22, 2013

Smeagol said:
Cars provide a vital service mankind now depends upon. Fluoride is a by product of aluminum manufacturing if I'm not mistaken, an important material. Plus science has figured out a dental health benefit for it. Tobacco does nothing except give its addicts their latest fix.

BTW: another topic but I support significantly reducing car exhaust with aggressive development of electric cars. I good friend of mine got one on lease this year and loves it. $250 a month, under $30 a month in electricity and no gas, no oil changes.

There is also evidence that flouride is bad for you as well as your teeth.

I dont believe in going into debt so i only buy cars that i can pay for in cash on the spot

iguanaman · Nov 22, 2013

cpgrad08 said:
So we should sue gas stations then since gas and gas vapors can cause cancer.

Fail
People go to gas stations to buy gas. There are also safeguards protecting you from vapors in many states.
People go to restaurants to eat and drink not breath cancerous smoke. If you can prove you are a regular customer and unless you signed a release you can sue for damages. If a wet floor can get you sued this certainly can.

Goshin · Nov 22, 2013

Owner's choice, IMO.

most will base their decision on what their customers want.... which is as it should be.

ChrisL · Nov 22, 2013

It's too bad people just didn't have the common courtesy to just smoke outside when at a restaurant anyway. I don't know why anyone would want to sit in some little smoky room to eat their dinner. It's kind of gross to smell cigarette smoke when you're trying to eat IMO.

radcen · Nov 22, 2013

ChrisL said:
It's too bad people just didn't have the common courtesy to just smoke outside when at a restaurant anyway. I don't know why anyone would want to sit in some little smoky room to eat their dinner. It's kind of gross to smell cigarette smoke when you're trying to eat IMO.

To the smoker it's not a big deal because they're surrounded by smoke whether they're inside or outside.

Plus, historically, until relatively recently, smoking was so common and accepted and expected that it just wasn't a big deal. I think this mindset still relates to most present-day smokers.

Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?