Shoot/Don't shoot training. Would you pass?

[swing_voter]

Reporter goes through shoot/don't shoot training.

Would you have passed?


.

 

[KevinKohler]

That training looks like its designed to teach police officers to shoot.

When the last time an office in that sort of situation was assaulted with a brick.

That right there looks like a big piece of our problem.

 

[TurtleDude]

Reporter goes through shoot/don't shoot training.

Would you have passed?


.

I have had hours and hours of this sort of training. I generally clean the courses. But then again,I have had hours and hours of training and have been in instructor for hours and hours. You can set these things so that no one "passes"though

 

[KevinKohler]

That video is BS. Nobody acts likes those in the video. A dude is not gonna charge a cop with a rock. A B and E is not drawing on an officer who already has their gun drawn and aimed.

 

[Phys251]

Reporter goes through shoot/don't shoot training.

Would you have passed?


.

Interesting. But all these scenarios are for the rare case of imminent threats. Did they show instances when a suspect is being disrespectful but not dangerous?

 

[KevinKohler]

Look at the end of it. They used lethal force by the end incorrectly, because they've been primed to do so. Those instructors should go to prison.

 

[roughdraft274]

After watching the video, I really do wonder if this type of "training" does anyone any good at all. Hopefully I'm either misunderstanding or there are places that do a better job than what is shown here.

 

[Phys251]

After watching the video, I really do wonder if this type of "training" does anyone any good at all. Hopefully I'm either misunderstanding or there are places that do a better job than what is shown here.

It seemed to me that this was desensitization training, not training on when to shoot or not.

Encounters that require lethal violence are extremely rare.

 

[Fishking]

That video is BS. Nobody acts likes those in the video. A dude is not gonna charge a cop with a rock. A B and E is not drawing on an officer who already has their gun drawn and aimed.

Yeah...nobody has ever charged a police officer with a rock, or even with nothing at all, just charged them. Has never ever happened.

 

[noonereal]

Interesting. But all these scenarios are for the rare case of imminent threats. Did they show instances when a suspect is being disrespectful but not dangerous?

You must be pissed that the cop stopped Ma'Khia Bryant from murdering the young women in Columbus.

Serious question, why can't either side be reasoned and rational?

 

[aociswundumho]

Interesting. But all these scenarios are for the rare case of imminent threats. Did they show instances when a suspect is being disrespectful but not dangerous?

What's interesting to me is how in the private sector, people who are disrespectful but not dangerous are almost always shown some level of consideration.

Consider a verbally abusive customer at Walmart. The clerks will do their best to deal with him, because they know they are accountable if they overreact.

Now consider a verbally abusive civilian dealing with a fat stupid cop. If the guy is lucky, he just gets the shit kicked out of him. If he's unlucky he ends up dead. The reason is because under socialism, there is virtually no accountability. Sure, once in a while a government drone will be fed to the masses, but that's one in a thousand. The problem is that the fat stupid cop doesn't work for the civilian, he works for the state, and that makes all the difference.

 

[HIP56948]

I shot the Jokers and the Clowns.

 

[Lutherf]

That video is BS. Nobody acts likes those in the video. A dude is not gonna charge a cop with a rock. A B and E is not drawing on an officer who already has their gun drawn and aimed.

We literally JUST had a situation where a 16 year old girl tried to stab someone else right in front of the cops. It was on video and everything!! Sometimes people make bad decisions.

 

[KevinKohler]

Yeah...nobody has ever charged a police officer with a rock, or even with nothing at all, just charged them. Has never ever happened.

Then it should be easy to produce body cam footage of that exact scenario, for the purposes of training.

 

[bomberfox]

It seemed to me that this was desensitization training, not training on when to shoot or not.

Encounters that require lethal violence are extremely rare.

Yep. Reminds me of the warrior cop training.

 

[KevinKohler]

We literally JUST had a situation where a 16 year old girl tried to stab someone else right in front of the cops. It was on video and everything!! Sometimes people make bad decisions.

Notice how I didn't reference that scenario? Because it was the ONLY one that was remotely realistic.

 

[Josie]

That video is BS. Nobody acts likes those in the video. A dude is not gonna charge a cop with a rock.

What about charging a cop with his own huge body after repeatedly trying to get the cop's gun?

I'm not sure why you say that nobody acts like the people in the video. Some people are batshit crazy, dude. Some people are completely out of their minds because of drugs. Some people are violently manic. Some people act like the people in the video.

 

[KevinKohler]

The other part where this kind of training fails is that it presents trainees with ONLY shoot or no shoot scenarios.

Whatever happened to dialogue? Using our words? These videos assume all cops show up gung ho barking orders, and then plays out the result of that.

 

[Josie]

It seemed to me that this was desensitization training, not training on when to shoot or not.

Encounters that require lethal violence are extremely rare.

Well, don't you just live in a Pollyanna world.

 

[KevinKohler]

What about charging a cop with his own huge body after repeatedly trying to get the cop's gun?

I'm not sure why you say that nobody acts like the people in the video. Some people are batshit crazy, dude. Some people are completely out of their minds because of drugs. Some people are violently manic. Some people act like the people in the video.

And those are 1 in 1,000.

But this training primes trainees to expect the 1 in 1,000 every time. Watch the full thing! They just trained journalists to be trigger haply. They unjustly used lethal force by the end of less than 10 minutes of that.

 

[Josie]

The other part where this kind of training fails is that it presents trainees with ONLY shoot or no shoot scenarios.

Whatever happened to dialogue? Using our words? These videos assume all cops show up gung ho barking orders, and then plays out the result of that.

That's what cops are trained to do. If there's a potential violent situation, the cops show up 'barking orders' to put down the weapon. You would rather they say what?

 

[Josie]

And those are 1 in 1,000.

But this training primes trainees to expect the 1 in 1,000 every time. Watch the full thing! They just trained journalists to be trigger haply. They unjustly used lethal force by the end of less than 10 minutes of that.

1 in 1,000? I thought you said NOBODY acts like that?

Was the reporter currently in training to be a police officer? Do you honestly think this is the ONLY training actual police officers go through?

 

[pamak]

I will expand this conversation by pointing out that the training is not only about when to shoot but also how to shoot. And in tis field, the US police training is based on concepts which do not agree with those that other western police forces use.
For example, Finnish police officer routinely aim at the lower part of the body (instead of always going for the center mass and frequently with multipe shots) and statistics regarding Finnish police shootings and casualties seem to reflect it

Poliisin aseenkäyttö johtaa harvoin kuolemaan

Poliisi on laukaissut aseitaan runsaan kymmenen vuoden aikana noin 120 kertaa.

yle.fi

From google translation:

According to the Police Board, the police used the weapon a total of 385 times between 2003 and 2013. During the same period, the police fired shots about 120 times, of which 40 were warning shots.

A total of 20 people were wounded from the bullets.

The chart shows that there was a total of two deaths ( Kuolleita column), and one was during training

In 2009, in Humppila, police shot a man in a siege situation. The following year, the guard was killed in an injury shot fired in practice.

and here is one case of an armed with a knife person who was shot on the leg.

Poliisi ampui veitsimiestä jalkaan Helsingissä – Ville havahtui laukauksiin naapurustossa: ”Ääni oli hätkähdyttävä”

Poliisi tekee parhaillaan teknistä tutkintaa Herttoniemen Niittaajankadulla.

www.is.fi

Translation is not perfect but it is good enough for someone wh does not know the language (like me) to get the essentials of the story. Any native speaker is free to doublecheck the accuracy of the stories.

 

[Fishking]

Then it should be easy to produce body cam footage of that exact scenario, for the purposes of training.

You don't use real footage of people for training for many reasons. First, they are often not the clearest video, which would make using them for training worthless. Secondly, you can't just use real people for training without getting consent and such, which is why they use actors.

Basically, you made and ill-informed stupid statement and can see your way out of it without losing face so your only choice is to dig in further.

 

[pamak]

and an interesting article by an American who observed the Chech police training at the range

Shooting center mass: I'm told we kill everyone...

In part two of this three-part series, Police1 Contributor Roy Bedard recalls a discussion he’d had with a police trainer in the Czech Republic

www.police1.com

A group of police officers had invited me to visit their police firing range, a modern indoor facility on academy property. The firing range was beautiful — well constructed with proper protective devices in place. Full body silhouette targets could be easily changed behind the hot line, and mechanically sent to various distances. There were men and women in-service who were qualifying with their Czech pistols.

When the signal was given to fire a large plume of smoke arose from the line. During the first volley each officer shot about four or five rounds. I squinted my eyes and looked downrange. Though born with poor vision, my eyes were good enough to see that not one single target had a bullet hole in center mass. Then, scanning the targets more closely I saw what appeared to be holes — lots of holes — in the legs of the target.

“My God,” I thought to myself, “this cannot be coincidence.”

I looked over my shoulder to the range master, who was preparing for the next sequence. “Why are they shooting in the legs?” I said, half smiling, trying to approach the question casually.

“This was a non-lethal drill,” he said without hesitation.

...

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