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Serious racism afoot at the University of Wisconsin

i do not consider AA to be racism, as racism proposes that one race is inferior to another.

Racism is also discrimination based on race. It's wrong for admission committees to unfairly discriminate against white individuals. It there was a school that believed that whites should have priority admissions and admitted white students who had inferior qualifications to black and Hispanic applicants would that not be wrong?
 
Racism is also discrimination based on race. It's wrong for admission committees to unfairly discriminate against white individuals. It there was a school that believed that whites should have priority admissions and admitted white students who had inferior qualifications to black and Hispanic applicants would that not be wrong?

That's why admissions committees do not unfairly discriminate against whites. More white people benefit from AA than blacks or any other racial group.
 
That's why admissions committees do not unfairly discriminate against whites. More white people benefit from AA than blacks or any other racial group.

How would I benefit from being turned down from a graduate program due to my race? How do I benefit by having candidates of other races who's qualifications are less than mine being allowed to enter these programs? I guess Jim Crow laws were good for black people by your logic :roll: And many admissions committees do unfairly discriminate against whites.
 
It there was a school that believed that whites should have priority admissions and admitted white students who had inferior qualifications to black and Hispanic applicants would that not be wrong?
First, your idea of "inferior qualifications" is just an opinion - an opinion based on an oversimplification of data and the admissions process. I want that clarified. Second, if historically black colleges like Morehouse and Howard considered the race of white applicants in their admissions process (in a positive way), then I would have no problem with that.
 
Thanks for doing those calculations, Your Nerdyness :respekt:

I wonder what the "test scores are all that counts" crowd will make of the fact that so many whites were admitted with scores lower than the scores of most of the accepted black applicants.

Page 12 of the Wisconsen Undergraduate study, figure two shows something different:
For blacks the highest SAT score was 1260.
For whites the lowest SAT was 1260.

Error? And on whose part?
 
Why did that school admit so many white people who got test scores lower than black people got?

I guess some racism is OK with rightwing

Page 12 of the Wisconsen Undergraduate study, figure two shows something different:
For blacks the highest SAT score was 1260.
For whites the lowest SAT was 1260.

Quandary. I don't like you so I am inclined to think you are intentionally misstating the facts.
On the other hand you deserve an opportunity to explain your statement.
 
Sure it did

Page 12 of the Wisconsen Undergraduate study, figure two shows something different:
For blacks the highest SAT score was 1260.
For whites the lowest SAT was 1260.

I did not see indications that whites with lower test scores than AA-blacks were admitted. Please point to the page I failed to scan.
 
If it's such damned racism why dont y'all take it to the supreme court?

And get your assess booted to the street. :roll:
 
Success in college requires a variety of qualifications. What worked for the applicants in high school may not work in college. College level work requires a higher level of dedication, perserverance, resourcefulness, etc, none of which are measured by entrance examinations.

Just like hiring a college graduate is no guarantee of getting an employee more dedicated or resourseful that a high schooler. What testing does is give a better idea of who is more likely to suceed just as hiring a college grad is more likely to equal a better employee.
 
Again, I propose that for every spot at a college or job that is reserved for a minority, an additional spot be opened up for a non-minority. That way, no one loses an opportunity.

That is a stupid suggestion

If a company needs one more worker-=think about it

Schools have limited number of spaces
 
If it's such damned racism why dont y'all take it to the supreme court?

And get your assess booted to the street. :roll:
Often the men in black are part of the problem. They don't always get it right. And they are slow to go against precedent, even if the precedent leads to a wrong.
 
How would I benefit from being turned down from a graduate program due to my race? How do I benefit by having candidates of other races who's qualifications are less than mine being allowed to enter these programs? I guess Jim Crow laws were good for black people by your logic :roll: And many admissions committees do unfairly discriminate against whites.

No one is turned down, or accepted, due to their race.

What makes you think white people are being turned down for their race when more white people benefit from AA than any other racial group?
 
Page 12 of the Wisconsen Undergraduate study, figure two shows something different:
For blacks the highest SAT score was 1260.
For whites the lowest SAT was 1260.

Error? And on whose part?

As I predicted, none of the "AA is racist" crowd will address the fact that

about 1,037 white students got into UW-Madison with a score of 1190 or lower on the SAT compared to about 177 black students who were admitted with scores at or below 1190.


this means that 207 white students were accepted with scores lower than 1094 while around 89 black students were accepted with scores below 1090.
 
Page 12 of the Wisconsen Undergraduate study, figure two shows something different:
For blacks the highest SAT score was 1260.
For whites the lowest SAT was 1260.

Quandary. I don't like you so I am inclined to think you are intentionally misstating the facts.
On the other hand you deserve an opportunity to explain your statement.

It's your quandary, which is why you're struggling hard to avoid the fact that

207 white students were accepted with scores lower than 1094 while around 89 black students were accepted with scores below 1090.
 
Page 12 of the Wisconsen Undergraduate study, figure two shows something different:
For blacks the highest SAT score was 1260.
For whites the lowest SAT was 1260.

I did not see indications that whites with lower test scores than AA-blacks were admitted. Please point to the page I failed to scan.

Here is what you're trying hard to ignore

I'd like to correct something I said earlier. Admission rates were higher for blacks and hispanics than tehy were for Whites and Asians. I had the numbers reversed.

But looking over these data, I found some interesting things.

In 2007, there were a total of 19,345 applicants, and of those, 12,219 were admitted. (See footnote on page 6 of study for these data)

Of those 12,219, 84.9% were white, 7.8% were Asian, 4.4% were Hispanic, and 2.9% were black according to the table found on page 6.

Translated into actual numbers of students would mean that 10,373.931 were white, 953.082 were Asian, 537.636 were Hispanic, and 354.351 were black. When you look at that, you can see how they rounded things so the actual numbers were 10,374 white, 953 Asian, 538 Hispanic, and 354 black.

Now, this is interesting because it means that 2,500 or so white students of the white students who were admitted to UW-Madison fell into 25th percentile.

What I find disconcerting about this "study" is that it discusses means and percentiles, but fails to show any standard deviations. Thankfully, they did give percentiles and ranges for those percentiles so for the ranges that show a normal distribution (the whites and Asians) standard deviations can be calculated. (Blacks and hispanics appear to have skewed distributions which means that I'd need more data than what is offered to determine SD)

The distribution they showed for whites indicated that the median was 1330, the score for the 25th percentile was 1260 and the score for the 75th percentile was 1400. As you can see, there are 90 points between 25th percentile and 50th percentile (which is what a median is) and there are 90 points between the 50th percentile and the 75th percentile. this strongly indicates that the distribution was a bell curve. thus, we know that Z-score (which is a percentage of the SD) for the 25th percentile is -0.6745. If we have 90 points at 67.45% of the SD, this means that the SD is actually about 133 points. This makes sense if you are aware that the score that is a full standard deviation below the mean is approximately the 16th percentile.

Now, what these data allow us to do is calculate the raw number of white students that were admitted to UW-Madison who had scores at or below the median score for black students.

To do this, we first have to calculate the z-score that the median score for blacks would be on the white scale. As we know from the "study", the median score for blacks was 170 points below the median for whites. This represents a z-score of -1.278.

This z-score is representative of about the 10th percentile in a standard distribution (meaning 10% of white students who were admitted were at or below this score).

Thus, we can take 10% of 10,374 and that will be the raw number of white students who were admitted with scores at or below the median score for blacks. Since this is the median for blacks, we know that 50% of the total 354 were admitted with scores at or below this number.

In more simple terms, about 1,037 white students got into UW-Madison with a score of 1190 or lower on the SAT compared to about 177 black students who were admitted with scores at or below 1190.

If we take it out to two SD's below the mean, it represents about 2% of the total whites who were admitted compared to the bottom 25% of blacks admitted (2 SD's below the mean for whites is 1094, while the bottom quartile for blacks was 1090).

this means that 207 white students were accepted with scores lower than 1094 while around 89 black students were accepted with scores below 1090.
One potential confound that exists is student athletes, who are often accepted with lower scores. It'd be interesting to see how many of these in the lower levels are admitted in part due to athletics.
 
Just like hiring a college graduate is no guarantee of getting an employee more dedicated or resourseful that a high schooler. What testing does is give a better idea of who is more likely to suceed just as hiring a college grad is more likely to equal a better employee.

Please post evidence that test scores predict future success in college.

All the research shows that they do not
 
No one is turned down, or accepted, due to their race.

What makes you think white people are being turned down for their race when more white people benefit from AA than any other racial group?

blatant lie detection at work
 
Please post evidence that test scores predict future success in college.

All the research shows that they do not

Please prove that blacks getting into schools with scores 300-400 points lower than Asians is based on something other than race
 
Please prove that blacks getting into schools with scores 300-400 points lower than Asians is based on something other than race

The proof you request, that AA is not based on race, is that more white people benefit from AA than any other racial group

You claimed that test scores are an accurate measure of an applicants qualifications for college. Please post some evidence that supports your claim instead of trying to avoid the issue with an irrelevant question
 
Please prove that blacks getting into schools with scores 300-400 points lower than Asians is based on something other than race
Having started this thread, you need to post proof that should make us believe that we should jump to your conclusions.
 
Blatant avoidance of the point I raised.

that is rich coming from a guy who whines about the SAT which has no relevance to this conversation
 
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