Sell Me on Ron Paul

[the makeout hobo]

I've seen statements from Ron Paul supporters lately to the effect that "Everyone is a Ron Paul supporter, they just don't know it yet", or "People only don't support Ron Paul because they don't understand his positions" or "Because the media is keeping him down." Well Paul fans, here's your chance. I want to see if you can convince me that I should give up my statist ways and embrace the revolution.

Some background: I am 24, straight, white, and from a working class and middle class background (split family). I am currently working a base retail job while I take out loans and grants to put myself through University. I'm studying History and Urban Planning, with intentions to get a Masters of Urban Studies and to go into a career as a city planner. I live in a big city, San Jose. My political beliefs, as of current, are moderate-liberal democrat.

So, why should I drop my support for Obama and go out and campaign for Ron Paul? I'm listening if you have convincing reasons why it will make my life better.

 

[Zyphlin]

I like Paul, but think there's probably people who are bigger fans that would be better suited to this. I just wanted to say that I know there's a lot of anti-Paul people on the forum, but I'd hope for the purposes of your post they'd let their dislike of him perhaps actually sit out one thread and let people actually try and give you why you SHOULD be sold on him and not trying to argue against him. There's plenty of threads doing that.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Totally. I am not interested in what Paul detractors have to say (in this thread), and I am going to try to dampen my own issues with Paul, trying to take everything people say at face value. I mean, I'm still going to be starting from the position of a New Deal Progressive, but I figure that if Paul is as right on things as people claim, they can explain to me why I should reevaluate my political preconceptions.

 

[joko104]

Given the mass of blogs on Ron Paul and all the threads on him, the OP seems like baiting.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Given the mass of blogs on Ron Paul and all the threads on him, the OP seems like baiting.

Yes there's a lot of Ron Paul supporters around here, but while they might talk about their candidate a lot, it's usually not quite the kind of discussion I want to have. Ron Paul supporters throw out a lot of stuff about how rational and universal the appeal of their candidate is, and I want to see that for myself. It's something of a thought experiment to me, to really understand the appeal, which has always baffled me. I promise to keep it civil and open minded, that's all I really care about. That, and hoping the horde of Paul detractors don't spam the thread.

 

[AdamT]

Given that you're contemplating a career in government, and that Paul is about as anti-government as they come, I think it's going to be a tough sell.

I think that if you asked Paul what he thought about city planners, he would say that government has no business planning cities.

 

[Zyphlin]

Given that you're contemplating a career in government, and that Paul is about as anti-government as they come, I think it's going to be a tough sell.

I think that if you asked Paul what he thought about city planners, he would say that government has no business planning cities.

Totally. I am not interested in what Paul detractors have to say (in this thread)

.........

smh

 

[AdamT]

.........

smh

So why are you posting here?

I was giving my honest opinion of Paul's outlook. I don't think a Paul supporter would disagree.

 

[conservativeguy]

Given that you're contemplating a career in government, and that Paul is about as anti-government as they come, I think it's going to be a tough sell.

I think that if you asked Paul what he thought about city planners, he would say that government has no business planning cities.

While I am no fan of Ron, he is anti-federal government. I don't recall him busting on state and local government. He is a big time supporter of efficient government.......which requires thoughtful urban planning.

 

[danarhea]

I've seen statements from Ron Paul supporters lately to the effect that "Everyone is a Ron Paul supporter, they just don't know it yet", or "People only don't support Ron Paul because they don't understand his positions" or "Because the media is keeping him down." Well Paul fans, here's your chance. I want to see if you can convince me that I should give up my statist ways and embrace the revolution.

Some background: I am 24, straight, white, and from a working class and middle class background (split family). I am currently working a base retail job while I take out loans and grants to put myself through University. I'm studying History and Urban Planning, with intentions to get a Masters of Urban Studies and to go into a career as a city planner. I live in a big city, San Jose. My political beliefs, as of current, are moderate-liberal democrat.

So, why should I drop my support for Obama and go out and campaign for Ron Paul? I'm listening if you have convincing reasons why it will make my life better.

Here's the deal. Ron Paul believes in a strict interpretation of the Constitution, and a lot of people are not going to like that. Democrats don't like the idea that Paul wants to disband the Department of Education. Establishment Republicans don't like the idea that Ron Paul wants to end the Federal Reserve. These are examples, and there are many more. So why Don't establisment Republicans, and Democrats like Ron Paul? The answer is easy. It's because they believe in big government. Yes, even establishment Republicans believe that government can fix certain problems. The only difference between them and Democrats is who they believe big government solutions should benefit. Ron Paul simply believes that big government IS the problem, and that big government frequently is antithesis of the Constitution. Ron Paul simply wants our government to be run according to the constitution, and since establishment Republicans and Democrats want their place in the trough preserved, they are going to do everything they can to prevent Ron Paul's message from getting out.

 

[joko104]

While I am no fan of Ron, he is anti-federal government. I don't recall him busting on state and local government. He is a big time supporter of efficient government.......which requires thoughtful urban planning.

I think this is an example of the tendancy of some Paul supporters defining him how they wish, even if it contradicts.

In relation to the mass of petrochemical refineries of his district, his oft stated view is that NO level of government should impose or be able to enforce ANY rules. Rather, if people can proof a company is harming them the person can sue.

There is NOTHING about Paul's stances that implies he wants "careful planning" by government. He wants government to butt out. His view is that people should do their own planning. Generally, libertarians oppose government rules of all kinds. That would include things such as zoning and local regulations. He is anti-feds in relation to states, but he is anti-government in relation to people. "City planning" is a matter of restricting and defining what people may and may not do with property.

 

[AdamT]

While I am no fan of Ron, he is anti-federal government. I don't recall him busting on state and local government. He is a big time supporter of efficient government.......which requires thoughtful urban planning.

Typically your hard core libertarians are against government intervention of that sort. They tend to prefer arrangements like you see in Houston, where the market rather than zoning boards determines which businesses should be located where.

 

[Redress]

I like Paul, but think there's probably people who are bigger fans that would be better suited to this. I just wanted to say that I know there's a lot of anti-Paul people on the forum, but I'd hope for the purposes of your post they'd let their dislike of him perhaps actually sit out one thread and let people actually try and give you why you SHOULD be sold on him and not trying to argue against him. There's plenty of threads doing that.

Damn you...just damn you....taking all my fun away.

I reserve the right to correct their silly misstatements however, like this one:

Here's the deal. Ron Paul believes in a strict interpretation of the Constitution, and a lot of people are not going to like that

No Dana, he believes in his interpretation of the constitution. This is a large, unsubtle difference.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Given that you're contemplating a career in government, and that Paul is about as anti-government as they come, I think it's going to be a tough sell.

I think that if you asked Paul what he thought about city planners, he would say that government has no business planning cities.

There are lots of reasons a city planner might not work for a government... Any time you build any building whatsoever you need a city planner, to say nothing of environmental planning and transportation planning. I could go into more detail if anyone wants to hear about "urban villages" and "green lines".

 

[the makeout hobo]

Here's the deal. Ron Paul believes in a strict interpretation of the Constitution, and a lot of people are not going to like that. Democrats don't like the idea that Paul wants to disband the Department of Education. Establishment Republicans don't like the idea that Ron Paul wants to end the Federal Reserve. These are examples, and there are many more. So why Don't establisment Republicans, and Democrats like Ron Paul? The answer is easy. It's because they believe in big government. Yes, even establishment Republicans believe that government can fix certain problems. The only difference between them and Democrats is who they believe big government solutions should benefit. Ron Paul simply believes that big government IS the problem, and that big government frequently is antithesis of the Constitution. Ron Paul simply wants our government to be run according to the constitution, and since establishment Republicans and Democrats want their place in the trough preserved, they are going to do everything they can to prevent Ron Paul's message from getting out.

... So what's the sell, here? I see a rant about big government, but I don't see any reasons given why I should give up my big government ways and embrace "the constitution". You have more meat?

 

[AdamT]

There are lots of reasons a city planner might not work for a government... Any time you build any building whatsoever you need a city planner, to say nothing of environmental planning and transportation planning. I could go into more detail if anyone wants to hear about "urban villages" and "green lines".

I hadn't thought about it, but that makes sense. Still, according to BLS, 66% of city planners work for local government....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ql_0tz5UPL7OpiUVA&sig2=3_C5-GudZJ2FOgdEvA44DQ

 

[conservativeguy]

I think this is an example of the tendancy of some Paul supporters defining him how they wish, even if it contradicts.

In relation to the mass of petrochemical refineries of his district, his oft stated view is that NO level of government should impose or be able to enforce ANY rules. Rather, if people can proof a company is harming them the person can sue.

There is NOTHING about Paul's stances that implies he wants "careful planning" by government. He wants government to butt out. His view is that people should do their own planning. Generally, libertarians oppose government rules of all kinds. That would include things such as zoning and local regulations. He is anti-feds in relation to states, but he is anti-government in relation to people. "City planning" is a matter of restricting and defining what people may and may not do with property.

I don't know if that is your opinion or if it reflects Ron Paul's position. If Ron thinks states and local governments can not establish basic regulations to protect the health and safety of the citizens.......he is a bigger moron than I already think he is.

 

[ARealConservative]

Damn you...just damn you....taking all my fun away.

I reserve the right to correct their silly misstatements however, like this one:



No Dana, he believes in his interpretation of the constitution. This is a large, unsubtle difference.

the concept of contract law where original understanding is what should be preserved isn't "his", it has a long history of adherence by many, many people.

 

[the makeout hobo]

the concept of contract law where original understanding is what should be preserved isn't "his", it has a long history of adherence by many, many people.

Redress, AReal, not the issue. Anyone have a Ron Paul pitch?

 

[The Prophet]

I've seen statements from Ron Paul supporters lately to the effect that "Everyone is a Ron Paul supporter, they just don't know it yet", or "People only don't support Ron Paul because they don't understand his positions" or "Because the media is keeping him down." Well Paul fans, here's your chance. I want to see if you can convince me that I should give up my statist ways and embrace the revolution.

Some background: I am 24, straight, white, and from a working class and middle class background (split family). I am currently working a base retail job while I take out loans and grants to put myself through University. I'm studying History and Urban Planning, with intentions to get a Masters of Urban Studies and to go into a career as a city planner. I live in a big city, San Jose. My political beliefs, as of current, are moderate-liberal democrat.

So, why should I drop my support for Obama and go out and campaign for Ron Paul? I'm listening if you have convincing reasons why it will make my life better.

Well makeout hobo, being is your slightly liberal, I suppose that means you are opposed to these wars? On Oct 27, 2007 Obama said if elected, the first thing he would do is bring out troops home.

Well he hasn't, and he is gearing up for the campaign in saying he will end the war; to keep his liberal base, but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that he will stop US involvement in Iraq. Think of it this way- you said you're working a retail job, well what if you told your manager that you would complete a mod or a special by the end of the day. Well 3 years later and you finally get around to completing it. Do you think you deserve to keep your job?

Another thing Obama is big on is Wall Street and the Federal Reserve. The FED is an Unconstitutional and secretive system, conbtrolled by outlaw bankers- the very people OWS is protesting against. The FED prints money like its monopoly money, creating inflation. And inflation leads to huge price surges on everyday things. The FED prints money, and loans it to us at a ridiculously high rate; so you can say that every dollar printed is a new tax. Just imagine if we didn't have a central bank- we'd have to live within our means. No more wars built up on false pretenses, no more stimules packages, no more overseas welfare. All of our money will be kept in our country, as should be. Barack Obama refuses to even shine a light on the FEDs criminal activity. Ben Bernake has the ability to give the economy a little boost, say before the election, then after Obama is re-elected, it'll cause a huge bubble, and we'll be further into debt. Ron Paul is the only major candidate that will expose the FED, and eventually, shut it down.

Here is more stuff that Ron Paul will do:
1. Get rid of the IRS
2. Get rid of the income tax, and replace it with nothing.
3. Bring our troops home where they are loved, not 6,000 miles away where they are hated
4. Stop being the sugardaddy of the entire world (stop foreign aid)
5. Secure our borders, not by builiding a fence, that is easily climbable, but by removing the incventives to come here illegally in the first place.
6. Repeal the Patriot Act
7. Balance the budget in his 3rd year with 1 trillion in cuts the first year
And as a show of support, a President Paul would take home a salary of $39,000. equalto the average US workers, and not the $400,000 salary of the current Occupant of the White House.

 

[Redress]

Redress, AReal, not the issue. Anyone have a Ron Paul pitch?

I'm sorry, I am shutting up now. You know me, if some one says they want me to shut up, I shut right up. Just that second. I don't keep talking and going on, no sir, I close my mouth right then and there and don't utter another peep. I will not bother you again, and I am shutting up just this instant. Not in a few minutes, but right now. I would never go on and on and on and on and on and on and on....

:2razz:

 

[the makeout hobo]

*snaps fingers* Redress, shut up

 

[Psychoclown]

I've seen statements from Ron Paul supporters lately to the effect that "Everyone is a Ron Paul supporter, they just don't know it yet", or "People only don't support Ron Paul because they don't understand his positions" or "Because the media is keeping him down." Well Paul fans, here's your chance. I want to see if you can convince me that I should give up my statist ways and embrace the revolution.

Paul supporters are silly when they make statements like that. Paul's positions are well outside the mainstream on a number of issues and its completely possible to understand him and disagree with him. No candidate or ideology has universal appeal. If they did, we wouldn't need elections. Further more if you're a New Deal progressive, you probably won't support Paul.

But I can list a few positions that might appeal to folks of a more liberal mindset.

1. While Paul is opposed to the government social safety net and would like to see it dismantled, he doesn't want to do it overnight. He understands there needs to be a transition and we need to honor our obligations we made to people who are counting on the current system. Where he would begin to immediately slash is on corporate welfare and military spending, two areas that liberals tend to want to see cuts at.

2. Paul is a staunch advocate of civil rights. He opposes the Patriot act. He also would end the federal war on drugs. Most divisive and controversial social issues would be left to the states.

3. Paul would withdraw our troops from many of our overseas bases and dramatically scale back America's mission to be the policeman of the world. Aggressive wars and nation building exercises would be a thing of the past under a Paul presidency.

 

[jasonxe]

I'm not fond of selling a candidate to someone as I'm not a particularly good salesman. I can answer questions but not selling-selling.

I can introduce you to some articles or informational videos. If that tickles your fancy -D) then you can do some a in-depth research on his positions/past. If you have a question on his positions/past then go to Ron Paul 2012 Forums or DailyPaul | Sound Money, Peace and Liberty to get a "detail" response. At the end, you decide whether you can support him or not.

Brief videos:
Ron Paul: The Only One We Can Trust - YouTube
Ron Paul: The 45th President Of The United States - YouTube
Where do Ron Paul's ideas come from? - YouTube

Detail video is down below in my sig but i post it here
Ron Paul 1-Hour Interview in New Hampshire - YouTube
&
Since you're political leaning is slightly liberal. Then here is a interview with libs
Ron Paul educates some liberals - YouTube

also note: Paul supporters like to joke with Paul as people do with Chuck Norris. :-D

 

[AdamT]

So ... Paul would eliminate the income tax and replace it with nothing? How does he intend to fund the government?