Self Defense Against Sexual Harassment/Assault

[DebateChallenge]

So I’ve posted before about sexual harassment and sexual assault and about the use of physical force to stop such stuff. I originally posted about this in the sex and sexuality folder but I think it would be more appropriate to post it here in the law and order folder.





Now, if somebody says something to you that is off color or vulgar which could be considered sexual harassment that does not justify using physical force against the offender, not if they haven’t touched you. However, if somebody touches you in a way they’re not supposed to there should be nothing to say that you can’t use physical force to incapacitate them as in that case it would be self defense. Touching somebody in a way you’re not supposed to I would think would cross the line from sexual harassment into sexual assault. Somebody once said that I would be slapped with a felony if I hit somebody who touched me in a way they’re not supposed to, well I don’t see how it would since in the USA you’re allowed to defend yourself. I don’t know how it is in other countries but in the USA by law you’re allowed to use force if its in self defense.

 

[ASHES]

So I’ve posted before about sexual harassment and sexual assault and about the use of physical force to stop such stuff. I originally posted about this in the sex and sexuality folder but I think it would be more appropriate to post it here in the law and order folder.





Now, if somebody says something to you that is off color or vulgar which could be considered sexual harassment that does not justify using physical force against the offender, not if they haven’t touched you. However, if somebody touches you in a way they’re not supposed to there should be nothing to say that you can’t use physical force to incapacitate them as in that case it would be self defense. Touching somebody in a way you’re not supposed to I would think would cross the line from sexual harassment into sexual assault. Somebody once said that I would be slapped with a felony if I hit somebody who touched me in a way they’re not supposed to, well I don’t see how it would since in the USA you’re allowed to defend yourself. I don’t know how it is in other countries but in the USA by law you’re allowed to use force if its in self defense.

The force used should be commiserate with the assault. Ie, a butt or boob groper could be slapped to attempt to stop the sexual assault, and if it continues the violence could be escalated to fists, kicks, or pepper spray. A more violent assault could of course be met with a higher level of force from the start, and even deadly force, if neccessary and legally justified to terminate the assault.

 

[Bodi]

So I’ve posted before about sexual harassment and sexual assault and about the use of physical force to stop such stuff. I originally posted about this in the sex and sexuality folder but I think it would be more appropriate to post it here in the law and order folder.





Now, if somebody says something to you that is off color or vulgar which could be considered sexual harassment that does not justify using physical force against the offender, not if they haven’t touched you. However, if somebody touches you in a way they’re not supposed to there should be nothing to say that you can’t use physical force to incapacitate them as in that case it would be self defense. Touching somebody in a way you’re not supposed to I would think would cross the line from sexual harassment into sexual assault. Somebody once said that I would be slapped with a felony if I hit somebody who touched me in a way they’re not supposed to, well I don’t see how it would since in the USA you’re allowed to defend yourself. I don’t know how it is in other countries but in the USA by law you’re allowed to use force if its in self defense.

What a weird post... if a person touches you inappropriately then you get away or do what is necessary to get away... you do not jiu-jitsu the ****er into unconsciousness.

 

[Bodi]

The force used should be commiserate with the assault. Ie, a butt or boob groper could be slapped to attempt to stop the sexual assault, and if it continues the violence could be escalated to fists, kicks, or pepper spray. A more violent assault could of course be met with a higher level of force from the start, and even deadly force, if neccessary and legally justified to terminate the assault.

I had a lady make super inappropriate sexual comments to me from time to time and touch my butt while at work and then one time she suddenly hugged me as I was walking past... I beat the shit outta he... no, just a joke. She did do all that but all I did was raise my hands high above my head away from her and I said to another colleague that I had been walking with to wait for me there. She started crying and I tried to think of something so I asked her about her upcoming marriage and she started laughing giddily and let go. After I asked what my colleague thought and he said that she was "****ing nuts".

 

[ASHES]

I had a lady make super inappropriate sexual comments to me from time to time and touch my butt while at work and then one time she suddenly hugged me as I was walking past... I beat the shit outta he... no, just a joke. She did do all that but all I did was raise my hands high above my head away from her and I said to another colleague that I had been walking with to wait for me there. She started crying and I tried to think of something so I asked her about her upcoming marriage and she started laughing giddily and let go. After I asked what my colleague thought and he said that she was "****ing nuts".

Sounds like you did what I said. Don't know why she'd laugh though, unless she's ****ing nuts.

 

[Bodi]

Sounds like you did what I said. Don't know why she'd laugh though, unless she's ****ing nuts.

She is pretty messed up. A drama leech. Constantly crying when somebody moves on to another job, or somebody has a tragedy and of course she has to be there crying and hugging... a true Attention Whore. She was not laughing about hugging me. She was laughing at how happy she was to be getting married to her soul mate and she started talking about that with my quick thinking distraction and I said that sounds great, awesome and good luck and walked off.

Starting to remember more... one time in a meeting of about ten of us she blocked the door when we started leaving... I was first going out and I said excuse me please... she said that she wanted a hug... I said no thanks, I don't like touching people... she said but touching leads to sex... I said in a serious voice to move aside so that I can leave the room... I asked a couple of others after we left what they thought and they just shook their heads.

 

[DebateChallenge]

The force used should be commiserate with the assault. Ie, a butt or boob groper could be slapped to attempt to stop the sexual assault, and if it continues the violence could be escalated to fists, kicks, or pepper spray. A more violent assault could of course be met with a higher level of force from the start, and even deadly force, if neccessary and legally justified to terminate the assault.

Well I don't see it reasonable to shoot a butt or boob groper but somebody shouldn't get in trouble for punching a butt or boob groper. For somebody to punch a butt or boob groper they're just using their hand, not any weapons.

 

[DebateChallenge]

What a weird post... if a person touches you inappropriately then you get away or do what is necessary to get away... you do not jiu-jitsu the ****er into unconsciousness.

Maybe not in your country of New Zealand, I don't know how it is over there, but in the USA you're allowed by law to defend yourself.

 

[Guyzilla]

I had a landlady that said she wanted my baby. I said no, she said, move, NOW. I said no. She said, then I will call my daughter, and her boyfriend is a heroin addict, and he will bring guys to mess you up. I said, bring them on, and as soon as I kill them dead, I will be coming for you. I hid in my room, with a bayonet, and wrist rocket. All I had.

I was so gung ho, and so committed, that she came begging for de-escalation. Sexual harrassment is rarely physical, if you are male. But it can be violent still.

A friend from work, was there overnight, and one of the owners, wound up grabbing his balls, in shorts, and caused a torsion strain. I agreed to testify if need be. I was threatened for my job, and the guy whos balls were wrenched, was called nutz. That was the tactic. All three brothers closed ranks, and were ready to bear false witness, to protect themselves.

Sexual harrassment is NO JOKE. These are only two incidents I have lived. I never had to actually kill or maim folks, but had to threaten it, to survive.

 

[Bodi]

Maybe not in your country of New Zealand, I don't know how it is over there, but in the USA you're allowed by law to defend yourself.

Choking a guy out that is no longer a threat is not self-defense. And I am an American...

 

[DebateChallenge]

Choking a guy out that is no longer a threat is not self-defense. And I am an American...

Oh yeah that's right if I remember correctly you're an American citizen who is in New Zealand right now.

Anyway, Im not talking about beating or choking somebody who is no longer a threat, Im talking about the force you use when they still are a threat.

 

[DebateChallenge]

I had a landlady that said she wanted my baby. I said no, she said, move, NOW. I said no. She said, then I will call my daughter, and her boyfriend is a heroin addict, and he will bring guys to mess you up. I said, bring them on, and as soon as I kill them dead, I will be coming for you. I hid in my room, with a bayonet, and wrist rocket. All I had.

I was so gung ho, and so committed, that she came begging for de-escalation. Sexual harrassment is rarely physical, if you are male. But it can be violent still.

A friend from work, was there overnight, and one of the owners, wound up grabbing his balls, in shorts, and caused a torsion strain. I agreed to testify if need be. I was threatened for my job, and the guy whos balls were wrenched, was called nutz. That was the tactic. All three brothers closed ranks, and were ready to bear false witness, to protect themselves.

Sexual harrassment is NO JOKE. These are only two incidents I have lived. I never had to actually kill or maim folks, but had to threaten it, to survive.

What you described crosses the line from sexual harassment and goes into sexual assault, I would call it sexual assault and as such it should justify the use of force on the would be victim's part.

 

[Bodi]

Oh yeah that's right if I remember correctly you're an American citizen who is in New Zealand right now.

Anyway, Im not talking about beating or choking somebody who is no longer a threat, Im talking about the force you use when they still are a threat.

Fair enough. I might have misunderstood your argument. My bad.

 

[HonestJoe]

Touching somebody in a way you’re not supposed to I would think would cross the line from sexual harassment into sexual assault. Somebody once said that I would be slapped with a felony if I hit somebody who touched me in a way they’re not supposed to, well I don’t see how it would since in the USA you’re allowed to defend yourself. I don’t know how it is in other countries but in the USA by law you’re allowed to use force if its in self defense.

The technicalities of individual laws can be complex and messy but I'd say the moral principle of physical self-defence would be about using the minimum amount of force necessary to stop the offence and escape the situation. If someone if "just" touching you inappropriately, simply pushing their hand away should be sufficient to stop them so hitting them at that point would be considered excessive. Obviously if they continue to press their advances, the level of physical self-defence could increase too.

It should also be noted that in that kind of situation, words should be used before force, if only to shortcut any kind of defence of their ignorance or perceiving you were consenting.

 

[DebateChallenge]

The technicalities of individual laws can be complex and messy but I'd say the moral principle of physical self-defence would be about using the minimum amount of force necessary to stop the offence and escape the situation. If someone if "just" touching you inappropriately, simply pushing their hand away should be sufficient to stop them so hitting them at that point would be considered excessive. Obviously if they continue to press their advances, the level of physical self-defence could increase too.

It should also be noted that in that kind of situation, words should be used before force, if only to shortcut any kind of defence of their ignorance or perceiving you were consenting.

Sexual crime is not taken lightly. So if somebody is touching you inappropriately in a sexual manner I see nothing wrong with hitting them.

Pushing and hitting I would put at the same level of force from a legal standpoint since you're just using your hand and you're not using any weapons. If you're using a weapon that would be a greater level of force but as long as you're not using any weapons that shouldn't be seen by law as a greater level of force.

 

[DebateChallenge]

I had a lady make super inappropriate sexual comments to me from time to time and touch my butt while at work and then one time she suddenly hugged me as I was walking past... I beat the shit outta he... no, just a joke. She did do all that but all I did was raise my hands high above my head away from her and I said to another colleague that I had been walking with to wait for me there. She started crying and I tried to think of something so I asked her about her upcoming marriage and she started laughing giddily and let go. After I asked what my colleague thought and he said that she was "****ing nuts".

I don't recall if you're a man or woman yourself but if you're a man I could see how slugging her could get you in trouble. A man slugging a woman for just about any reason is going to look really bad in court. You would no doubt be facing criminal charges and most certainly civil charges.

However, a man doing what you described to another man I see nothing wrong with the other man slugging him. Same thing if a woman were to do it to another woman. And a woman would certainly be justified, if you ask me, in slugging a man that does such stuff to her.

 

[Lursa]

So I’ve posted before about sexual harassment and sexual assault and about the use of physical force to stop such stuff. I originally posted about this in the sex and sexuality folder but I think it would be more appropriate to post it here in the law and order folder.

Now, if somebody says something to you that is off color or vulgar which could be considered sexual harassment that does not justify using physical force against the offender, not if they haven’t touched you. However, if somebody touches you in a way they’re not supposed to there should be nothing to say that you can’t use physical force to incapacitate them as in that case it would be self defense. Touching somebody in a way you’re not supposed to I would think would cross the line from sexual harassment into sexual assault. Somebody once said that I would be slapped with a felony if I hit somebody who touched me in a way they’re not supposed to, well I don’t see how it would since in the USA you’re allowed to defend yourself. I don’t know how it is in other countries but in the USA by law you’re allowed to use force if its in self defense.

This stuff again? I remember something like, "If someone touches me, can I beat them up?" a ways in the past.

If it's a touch, why not just move away? If the person isnt being restrained or isnt cornered, they arent 'threatened' physically, they are offended (legimately most likely). Report it, tell them never to do it again. Remove yourself from the scene.

What you describe it punitive...you want someone to tell you it's OK to lash out and punish the person in outrage at being touched or harrassed. You want a legal excuse to hit back.

Once more, your post sounds very immature and not actually looking for constructive feedback, just reinforcement.

 

[Wayne Jr]

So I’ve posted before about sexual harassment and sexual assault and about the use of physical force to stop such stuff. I originally posted about this in the sex and sexuality folder but I think it would be more appropriate to post it here in the law and order folder.





Now, if somebody says something to you that is off color or vulgar which could be considered sexual harassment that does not justify using physical force against the offender, not if they haven’t touched you. However, if somebody touches you in a way they’re not supposed to there should be nothing to say that you can’t use physical force to incapacitate them as in that case it would be self defense. Touching somebody in a way you’re not supposed to I would think would cross the line from sexual harassment into sexual assault. Somebody once said that I would be slapped with a felony if I hit somebody who touched me in a way they’re not supposed to, well I don’t see how it would since in the USA you’re allowed to defend yourself. I don’t know how it is in other countries but in the USA by law you’re allowed to use force if its in self defense.

If you want to use less-than-legal force you're going to have to get the person into a situation where there are no witnesses. Late at night in a parking lot, for example, you can have a significant other, or brother or whatever, assault them. Take their stuff to make it look like a robbery but throw everything but cash away.

 

[DebateChallenge]

If you want to use less-than-legal force you're going to have to get the person into a situation where there are no witnesses. Late at night in a parking lot, for example, you can have a significant other, or brother or whatever, assault them. Take their stuff to make it look like a robbery but throw everything but cash away.

So why would I have to have no witnesses if I want to use a level of force that's legally allowed?

 

[Wayne Jr]

So why would I have to have no witnesses if I want to use a level of force that's legally allowed?

I was clearly talking about illegal force....

 

[DebateChallenge]

I was clearly talking about illegal force....

Well if I hurt a perpetrator really badly, whether I use legal force or illegal force, they wouldn't press charges because they would be scared of me.

 

[Wayne Jr]

Well if I hurt a perpetrator really badly, whether I use legal force or illegal force, they wouldn't press charges because they would be scared of me.

They would press charges precisely BECAUSE they were scared of you. If they weren't scared of you then they would deal with you themselves, but because they're scared they will use other people (the courts and police) to go fight in their place.

 

[Bum]

So I’ve posted before about sexual harassment and sexual assault and about the use of physical force to stop such stuff. I originally posted about this in the sex and sexuality folder but I think it would be more appropriate to post it here in the law and order folder.





Now, if somebody says something to you that is off color or vulgar which could be considered sexual harassment that does not justify using physical force against the offender, not if they haven’t touched you. However, if somebody touches you in a way they’re not supposed to there should be nothing to say that you can’t use physical force to incapacitate them as in that case it would be self defense. Touching somebody in a way you’re not supposed to I would think would cross the line from sexual harassment into sexual assault. Somebody once said that I would be slapped with a felony if I hit somebody who touched me in a way they’re not supposed to, well I don’t see how it would since in the USA you’re allowed to defend yourself. I don’t know how it is in other countries but in the USA by law you’re allowed to use force if its in self defense.

Commensurate physical force is always acceptable in physical assaults.

 

[Lursa]

Commensurate physical force is always acceptable in physical assaults.

LOL Perfect, thanks!

So when someone touches his butt, that's the most he can do in return.

 

[Bum]

LOL Perfect, thanks!

So when someone touches his butt, that's the most he can do in return.

Sexual assault/violence is never acceptable......but, should it be revisited upon the offender, I cannot summon a bit of concern.